8 dead in Texas high school shooting

[pnewton]

From your article:

They thought they were a hardened target, part of what’s expected today of the American public high school in an age when school shootings occur with alarming frequency. And so a death toll of 10 was a tragic sign of failure and needing to do more, but also a sign, to some, that it could have been much worse.

“My first indication is that our policies and procedures worked,” J.R. “Rusty” Norman, president of the school district’s board of trustees, said Saturday, standing exhausted at his front door. “Having said that, the way things are, if someone wants to get into a school to create havoc, they can do it.”

Preparation can lessen the severity of a shooting, little comfort when your child is among the dead. Controlling fire arms, especially more dangerous fire arms likewise can lessen damage, though as Santa Fe has shown, that too is but a lessening. Then there is:

1. Better mental health care.
2. Accountability for adults who let their kids get their legal guns.
3. More responsible media (stop making celebrities of murderers).

The point is, disregarding any avenue to protect children and adults simply because no measure will be a “solution” is irresponsible.

 

[AlNg]

Was there a tall fence around the school? Was the entrance to the school building secure ? Was there a security check for weapons for all people entering the school? I don’t think so.
And there should be more than just two security guards. The security plan they had for the school was weak and lax. It was insufficient. Although Americans spend hundreds of billions of dollars every year trying to make people in other countries safe, i don;t see the same effort being applied to protect young students from being shot down like sitting ducks.

 

[JonNC]

No, it is not all. There is more to blame. There were no or too few armed and trained security guards at the school and there was no secure fence surrounding the school and there was no metal detector at the entrance to the school. In brief, security was lax and enabled an insane murderer to get through.

While I agree that, generally, schools could improve security, the greatest fault resides with the shooter himself. That is always the case.

Americans spend hundreds of billions of dollars every year to supposedly provide safety to the people in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria. Americans spend billions putting armed troops in Europe, supposedly to protect people against Russian invasion. But Americans are very cheap when it comes to providing security for school children. IMHO, Americans have their priorities wrong. I would recommend that they consider placing the safety and security of the lives of young American school children first.

The two policies are entirely unrelated. Schools are the responsibility of state and local governments because the general government has no constitutional mandate for education. Foreign policy is the responsibility of the general government.

 

[JonNC]

Being able to identify who’s not law abiding is important.

Indeed, and using that as an excuse to interfere in the rights of the law abiding is deceptive.

After all, how do so many guns end up in the hands of criminals in the inner city, which you claim to care about. If there is no record of purchases, how can you tell if someone is buying guns in Indiana and selling them illegally to criminals in Chicago.

First, we have two very powerful law enforcement agencies tasked to do this: FBI and BATFE.
Second, the NICS is in place for background checks, even in Indiana.

There are lots of ways to trace firearms, just like other consumer products. Do it without making the process an excuse for registering the firearms of the law abiding in preparation for confiscation, which many progressives claim they don’t plan to do.

 

[JonNC]

NARAL most certainly is committed to defending a woman’s reproductive rights, which is defined as freedom from state coercion to become pregnant, remain pregnant or end a pregnancy.

This is a euphemism for killing a baby. The state has never coerced someone to perform the act that causes pregnancy, but scientifically, once conception happens, a human being exists.
They can legally call a “right”, but it is in fact killing a human being. That is the only purpose of abortion. Rarely is it related to a woman’s health. It is taking a life as a matter of convenience. In fact, it is the only time an American can legally take the life of another human being, other than in self defense.

They are exactly like the NRA, because they would rather witness the slaughter of innocent children than compromise this ideal of absolute personal autonomy.

And this is the lie. No where does the 2nd amendment provide a citizen the right to kill another human being. No where does the NRA claim the right to arms to be a right to kill another human being.
It is also a non sequitur that the right of law abiding citizens to arms causes the slaughter of innocent children. Blaming the law abiding for the acts of the lawless is a slander.
Law abiding Car owners are not responsible for deaths caused by drunk drivers.
Law abiding men are not responsible for the actions of rapists.
Law abiding Catholic priests are not responsible for the actions of those priests who have abused children.
Law abiding Muslims are not responsible for the actions of Islamic terrorists.

The culture of death thrives in a world where personal autonomy is worshiped above God. This is a form of idolotry.

This is a specious argument used to eliminate individual rights in exchange for government power. Believing that individuals have rights is not idolatry. In fact, those who truly understand rights know they come from God.
On the other hand, those who wish to suppress rights want to replace God with government.

Worshiping idols is not about receiving your reward in the next life, it’s about getting ahead or avoiding catastrophe in this one. Every woman who has an abortion does it because she thinks it will make her present life better. Every responsible gun owner seeks the power to kill in order to avoid possible calamity. In both cases the price is human sacrifice.

Virtually every responsible gun owner has not taken a life, while virtually every abortion does. The comparison is truly a contrast of polar opposites.

 

[Stephen_C]

Meanwhile the NRA blames the media for all these mass shooters…

https://www.wfaa.com/video/news/nation-now/nra-blames-media-for-creating-monsters-who-commit-mass-shootings/465-8134115

 

[ThinkingSapien]

As far as I can tell when ever there is a mass shooting the policy reactions have been to either do nothing or to increase the accessibility of guns. Neither has as far as I’ve seen had any causal effect on moving towards lowering the chances of mass shootings.

At a company level there have been a few companies that have taken steps to attempt to lower their potential contribution to the problem. But that has been about it.

Thoughts and Prayers is developing some negative connotations.

https://twitter.com/search?q=thoughtsandprayers

https://everydayarcade.com/games/thoughts-and-prayers-the-game

 

[Luke6_37]

Luke6_37:

NARAL most certainly is committed to defending a woman’s reproductive rights, which is defined as freedom from state coercion to become pregnant, remain pregnant or end a pregnancy.

This is a euphemism for killing a baby. The state has never coerced someone to perform the act that causes pregnancy, but scientifically, once conception happens, a human being exists.
They can legally call a “right”, but it is in fact killing a human being. That is the only purpose of abortion. Rarely is it related to a woman’s health. It is taking a life as a matter of convenience. In fact, it is the only time an American can legally take the life of another human being, other than in self defense.

I am uncompromisingly Pro-life and think abortion is killing a baby - so you don’t need to convince me. That’s a good thing, because if I didn’t already believe this, your arguments would not change my mind. That’s because they are full of falsehoods and deceptions. You may think you are making a good case for your side, but you’re not, because I can easily demonstrate that all your comments above are false. That’s why they are unconvincing to anyone who has more than half a brain.

I’d go over my character limit if I tried to respond to all your rhetoric. So for now, I will simply state that this is a Catholic forum. On it, I claim the title Christian, rather than Catholic, to combat the kind of thinking you exhibit. Most Catholics do not realize that many who claim the title “Christian” actually represent a way of thinking that is a reflection of Protestant Christianity, not Catholic Christianity. I believe Catholics need to take back and rehabilitate the title Christian, because all of the crazy, right-wing, bible-believing, Calvinists, who run around claiming they represent Christianity, are seriously damaging the brand.

I am not accusing you of being one of them, but you need to stop using their false and shallow rhetoric and start learning how to think and argue like a Catholic if you want to keep posting on a Catholic forum without creating dissension and discord. Most folks are not going to check your religious affiliation, and even if they did, they may not know how the difference between Catholics and Protestants affects our world views. You many not even know it yourself.

Since you are a guest in our space, begin by reading and studying Catholic sources to learn what it means for a Catholic to be uncompromisingly Pro-Life on all Life issues, not just abortion. There is no better place to start than the encyclical Evangelium Vitae by Saint Pope John Paul II. Then work your way through Pope Benedict’s Faith, Hope and Charity series: Deus caritas est, Spe salvi, and Lumen fidei. Finally see how it all get integrated into a single consistent Ethic of Life by Pope Francis in Laudato Si and Gaudete et Exsultate.

After that, maybe you’ll see why you’ve got it wrong when it comes to both God and guns.

 

[Sarcelle]

There is a way to obtain weapons without going through the state. It’s called the black market. Even if you keep an updated database of gun owners who purchase their weapons legally, there is no way to track weapons bought on the black market.

I won’t be surprised if the Mexican drug cartels also deal with weapons along with drugs.

 

[FirstFiveEighth]

The non-starter is typically the ineffectual yet draconian policies proposed to limit gun violence. You say you want a national registry to track guns so they can’t be sold illegally or they can be tracked. Well not too long ago our esteemed federal government under the ATF tried just that and sold tracked guns to the cartel and lo and behold they came back and murdered American citizens. Not to mention Mexican citizens. That really worked out well. Right now everyone is up in arms about banning AR-15s, yet no one can explain how banning an AR15 excludes any other semi-automatic rifle, because that is all it is, same as almost every other firearm in existence. Of course publications like the AP really reach and try and convince people AR15s come with chainsaw bayonets and other nonsense.

So if gun control advocates can come up with something worthwhile that doesn’t simultaneously disarm the majority of gun owners I am all ears. For example, I would support a ban on bump stocks, or at least list them as a class 3 item that requires a license like owning, say, an M249. I would even be willing to discuss magazine capacity, although I don’t think that would make any difference as changing out magazines when facing unarmed people is practically meaningless. I could consider a proposal on private storage. But if you want something achieved stop proposing ideas that are anathema to the American gun owner and directly opposed to the Second Amendment.

 

[Sarcelle]

I agree.

This is why we need to come together and discuss soberly the way to effectively restrict access to those who should not own guns.

Political grandstanding, hysteria and knee jerk reactions would only assure us of more gun violence in the future.

 

[FirstFiveEighth]

They never were until the last 10-20 years. Something has changed that causes some people to look on their fellow citizens not as another living, breathing person with a family and friends but as an object on which to take out their wrath or play with like an insect.

Only a few weeks ago I saw in the news that a young man, in his 20s, was killed in Colorado driving his car down the highway. Someone pushed a bolder off the overpass onto his vehicle. Just for kicks and giggles. See what it would do. His pregnant wife was in the passenger seat.

 

[F_Marturana]

We’ve got a system for cars.

Licensing, registration, title, insurance.

The licensing component could include background check, knowledge and proficiency of use.

 

[starshiptrooper]

No licenses, they turn a right in a privilege.

 

[JonNC]

I am uncompromisingly Pro-life and think abortion is killing a baby - so you don’t need to convince me. That’s a good thing, because if I didn’t already believe this , your arguments would not change my mind. That’s because they are full of falsehoods and deceptions . You may think you are making a good case for your side, but you’re not, because can easily demonstrate that all your comments above are **false . That’s why they are unconvincing to anyone who has more than half a brain.

Interesting. Let’s see what I’ve said that you claim is false.
** The state has never coerced someone to perform the act that causes pregnancy,**
You say that is false. Please identify a case where the government has coerced women into the act that causes pregnancy.
scientifically, once conception happens, a human being exists.
You say that is false.
They can legally call a “right”
You say this is false. Are you saying they cannot legally call it a right?
but it is in fact killing a human being.
You say this is false, but you are pro-life?
That is the only purpose of abortion. Rarely is it related to a woman’s health.
You say this is false. Do you have a source that shows otherwise?
It is taking a life as a matter of convenience.
You say this is false?
it is the only time an American can legally take the life of another human being, other than in self defense.
You say this is false. Can you identify when it is legal for a citizen to take a human life?

you need to stop using their false and shallow rhetoric and start learning how to think and argue like a Catholic if you want to keep posting on a Catholic forum without creating dissension and discord.

You need to show, first, where my words were false. Then, you need to show me where you control who posts on this forum and who doesn’t. Then you need to show me where you are the arbitrator of what is Catholic and what is not.

Since you are a guest in our space

This is not “your space”, as far as I know, unless you own Catholic Answers. That said, there are other Catholics here who I believe will challenge your attempt to define what is Catholic in your own image.

 

[Sarcelle]

Even with all that in place how effective is that in keeping guns out of the wrong hands?

A teenaged boy could still swipe his father’s gun to shoot up his classmates or a gang member could buy several guns on the black market.

 

[JonNC]

I’m not sure how registering interferes with ‘rights’. The real estate I own is registered with the government, so are my cars. What makes guns so special that they can’t be registered except a willingness on the so-called ‘law-abiding’ gun owners to enable the illegal gun trade?

Registration is always used as a prerequisite for confiscation. It has already been done in California in the 1990’s.

Confiscation In California | GOA

Confiscation in California: A Test Case for the Nation? “Once the 90-day window of opportunity for turning in such assault weapons concludes, we will send each sheriff and police chief a listing of the affected individuals [who own banned firearms].” – California Department of Justice...

www.gunowners.org

The real estate I own is registered with the government, so are my cars.

Neither your home nor your car has attached to it a constitution protection as an enumerated right. AFAIK, neither contains a federal requirement for registration, either. The state registers cars. Homes are paper worked at the local level, except perhaps title searches. Neither would be a target of confiscation by government unless it is by a socialist regime.

And yet the guns flood into Chicago from Indiana through the loopholes that the gun lobby keeps in place.

Again, the gun lobby has never advocated for illegal guns. Please provide a source for this claim. Precisely, which part of the gun lobby advocates for a black market in guns?

The only reason for gun owners to fight registration is the desire to enable those that break the law.

Please do not put words in my mouth, as what you are saying is not true. I resist gun registration specifically for the reasons I posted above.

 

[OneSheep]

My side is with Jesus!

Mine too! And in my reading, the locals are saying that we need to bring God back into the schools.

This call falls way too short. We need to bring teachings of Christ, the values of the Gospel, into our society as a whole.

1. Our government, especially those in the White House today, are often appear not to be operating, speaking, deciding, and behaving with Gospel values in mind, especially the values of love, mercy. and forgiveness, which we Christians regard with highest importance.
2. The media today so often tells only one side of a story, and foments hatred and animosity rather than love and forgiveness. We Christians are called to love and forgive our enemies, and understanding the goodness and good intent of others plays a huge role in such forgiveness. Our media needs to take on the task of being a catalyst, a source, for such understanding.
3. Not to downplay the opinions of the locals in Texas, though, they are correct, all schools need to actively integrate forgiveness and mercy into the values taught on students. The shooter somewhat went for targets, people he held something against, and Jesus calls us to forgive anyone we hold anything against - that means the bullies for kids, people who disrespect them, and that means the Iranian, Russian, North Korean, and many other governments for the consumers of the MSM. It does not mean condoning the bad behaviors of people, it means understanding and forgiving, and then operating from a position of love and mercy rather than resentment and desire for revenge.

 

[JonNC]

Even with all that in place how effective is that in keeping guns out of the wrong hands?

A teenaged boy could still swipe his father’s gun to shoot up his classmates or a gang member could buy several guns on the black market.

Indeed. He can swipe his mother’s car and kill someone while speeding, too.
We never be able to end all violence. There has been violence since Kane and Abel. But the answer is not confiscating the rights of the law abiding. So, we have to find other ways.

Jon

 

[JonNC]

While number 1 could be said about the previous administration, and the ones preceding it, I generally agree.