8 dead in Texas high school shooting

[Sarcelle]

I agree.

Even if the rights of the law abiding were denied, does it stop the violence? No it doesn’t.

 

[Thorolfr]

JonNC:

As leftist Rahm Emanuel has aptly said: “You never want a serious crisis to go to waste.

If this was an isolated incident, then this could be considered a crisis. Killing kids in school is now a part of the American way of life, so we can keep guns convenient and easy,

And according to Oliver North in an interview on Fox News with Chris Wallace, the real culprit in school shootings isn’t the guns, it’s kids with ADHD who are “drugged” with Ritalin

And the disease in this case isn’t the Second Amendment. The disease is youngsters who are steeped in a culture of violence. They have been drugged in many cases. Nearly all of these perpetrators are male and they are young teenagers in most cases.

And they have come through a culture where violence is commonplace. All you need to do is turn on the TV, go to a movie. If you look at what has happened to the young people, many of these young boys have been on Ritalin since they were in kindergarten.

http://www.foxnews.com/transcript/2...indsey-graham-on-status-trump-kim-summit.html

 

[JonNC]

I agree.

Even if the rights of the law abiding were denied, does it stop the violence? No it doesn’t.

Even with the attention raised to combat gun violence in schools by students!, another student commits a heinous act. This isn’t about guns. There were plenty of guns where I grew up. Kids had guns in their trunks to go hunting after school. In college, pick up trucks parked in the school parking lots with guns on the gun racks.
Guns haven’t changed. People have. Our morality as a country has changed.

 

[JonNC]

Registration would also result in easy identification of those who break the law, which seems to be the problem with gun violence in the inner city. It really comes down to gun owners wanting to enable those who break the law.

No, it would not. As another poster mentioned, once guns make it into the black market, transfers are not done with registration.
The bolded part is simply a lie.

Nothing about it being a part of the Constitution makes registration unconstitutional. This is a very weak argument.

The constitution doesn’t work that way. Where is the constitutional mandate given the general government to create a registry of a protected right?

When the gun lobby fights measures to prevent this by their grading of politicians, then they do enable it.

Again you don’t provide a source for your accusation. I was very specific in my request:
Again, the gun lobby has never advocated for illegal guns. Please provide a source for this claim. Precisely, which part of the gun lobby advocates for a black market in guns?
You cannot simply accuse millions of people with illegal activity without evidence. If someone is advocating gun violence or illegal sales of guns, you have a civic responsibility to report it to law enforcement. You have a moral responsibility to provide here your source for the accusation you make.

Gun owners and the NRA enable the violence that occurs in this country by fighting measures that would prevent it. They all have blood on their hands and demand an inordinate part of American lives and property so they can have their ‘rights’.

Just more of your lies.

 

[JonNC]

And according to Oliver North in an interview on Fox News with Chris Wallace, the real culprit in school shootings isn’t the guns, it’s kids with ADHD who are “drugged” with Ritalin

North isn’t a doctor and shouldn’t play one on tv, but I also share the concern of what impact drugging our boys is having.

 

[JonNC]

And the lack of registration makes it that much harder to identify which guns are purchased on the black market and identify those that basically funnel them into the black market.

There is a NICS system. Virtually all purchases go through this system.

The right to property doesn’t preclude registration of certain items. Guns are property and can be registered.

Guns are more than property, as they have a constitutionally enumerated protection to them. A registry undermines the prefatory clause of the second.

Goodness gracious, you really don’t understand how fighting laws that would allow for better tracking of this market is really enabling criminals, do you?

You have made an accusation that millions of Americans advocate for the illegal sale of weapons. Please provide your documentation for such a charge.

And now with the personal attack. You really can’t argue a point without it, can you?

You continue to say things about millions of people you don’t know. Every one of your charges is a personal attack on millions of Americans, including me. Please don’t complain when the favor is returned. If you have evidence that millions of law abiding gun owners are advocating illegal gun violence and purchases, provide it. When you provide it, I will issue an apology referring to your charges as lies.
I await your evidence.

 

[FirstFiveEighth]

Saying that you are making stuff up when you are making stuff up is hardly an attack on your character. You have however demonstrated a consistent pattern on basically every thread you post of simply accusing those who disagree with whatever your viewpoint is of in fact supporting some heinous position. Perhaps you think this is some clever rhetorical strategy but it is in fact rather tiring. You know full well that “the NRA”, which is now apparently some monolithic boogeyman, and “gun owners” do not support a black market for firearms. And yet you insist on saying they do because they do not back your particular policy idea. Perhaps since you support gun registration you are actually in favor of the confiscation of all private property. Jagged hates America. Or perhaps that is nonsense and I just made that up to deamonize you. Keep on knocking down your straw men though.

 

[Thorolfr]

North isn’t a doctor and shouldn’t play one on tv, but I also share the concern of what impact drugging our boys is having.

So, what kinds of medications fall under the terms “drugged” or “drugging”? Would you consider someone who takes cholesterol medication every day to be “drugged”? Among the definitions of “drugged” for example:

to stupefy or poison with a drug.
to mix (food or drink) with a drug, especially a stupefying, narcotic, or poisonous drug.

 

[JonNC]

Then let’s make sure all purchases go through this system, the system is modernized, and the guns are properly tracked.

They already do. Gun stores and dealers must use the system. As long is there is no registry kept, this is a vital and good system.

No, it doesn’t

The history of gun registration supports my contention, even in the United States.

After you call me a liar, you going to say “please”

It won’t happen if you don’t. As I said, provide the evidence and I will issue a retraction and apology.

It’s true that people like you who continue to fight action that would properly regulate sales and track weapons to more easily keep them out the hands of criminals are the problem and frankly, you are so indoctrinated into the gun culture that you couldn’t properly disseminate any evidence provided.

this was your response to my post:

If you have evidence that millions of law abiding gun owners are advocating illegal gun violence and purchases, provide it. When you provide it, I will issue an apology referring to your charges as lies.
I await your evidence.

Throughout the entirety of our back and forth on this issue, you have accused millions of Americans, including me, of advocating violence, of advocating the killing of children, and now advocating illegal gun sales. You have provided no evidence to support this claim. None. Never. Not once. And now you claim that I wouldn’t understand evidence. And to that I say; try me.

 

[JonNC]

So, what kinds of medications fall under the terms “drugged” or “drugging”? Would you consider someone who takes cholesterol medication every day to be “drugged”? Among the definitions of “drugged” for example:

I don’t think that’s what he is talking about. He is talking about drugs used to control behavior of boys, primarily, at school.

 

[JonNC]

Would you say the same of Polish Jews? How about Cambodians? East Germans?
In most instances, tyrants disarm the citizenry. I don’t think it is an exaggeration. Do you?

 

[JonNC]

So much respect I have for you, Jharek, that I hesitate to even ask the question, but I think it important. No disrespect intended, but was he a member of the communist party?

 

[JonNC]

We would differ about Soviet communism, but I am not surprised with the background you provide here.

Thanks

 

[JonNC]

Great information. Thanks.

 

[AlNg]

Schools are the responsibility of state and local governments because the general government has no constitutional mandate for education.

I thought that there was a federal Department of Education with a mission to promote student achievement and preparation for global competitiveness. If there is no federal mandate for education, then why is there a webpage www.ed.gov for the U.S. Department of Education? And who is Betsy DeVoss, since there is no constitutional mandate for education?

 

[Sarcelle]

Yes.

I think it is the Wild West mentality and a weaker sense of community along with a rugged individualism that seem to exacerbate social isolation especially among young men.

Now if you have someone on the fringes with no strong ties to the community at large and add to that a grudge along with a sense of entitlement, than you have the ingredients for a perfect storm.

 

[JonNC]

I thought that there was a federal Department of Education with a mission to promote student achievement and preparation for global competitiveness. If there is no federal mandate for education, then why is there a webpage www.ed.gov for the U.S. Department of Education? And who is Betsy DeVoss, since there is no constitutional mandate for education?

There shouldn’t be, and its been effective only if you define effective as hurting education over the last 50 - 60 years.
It has no constitutional mandate. The term education is not present in the constitution. therefore, see the 10th amendment.

 

[AlNg]

Correct. That is also what I think and have been writing about. Americans want to spend hundreds of billions to protect people in Europe and elsewhere against the Russians and to protect people in Syria, in Iraq, in Afghanistan and elsewhere, but very little is spent, relatively speaking, to protect young American schoolchildren. And Americans demand the right to own their guns. Why are there not required safety measures for storing guns when not in use.

 

[AlNg]

There shouldn’t be,

That’s your opinion. And regardless of your opinion, there is in fact a federal US Department of Education. And it is headed by Betsy DeVoss.

 

[JonNC]

Correct. That is also what I think and have been writing about. Americans want to spend hundreds of billions to protect people in Europe and elsewhere against the Russians and to protect people in Syria, in Iraq, in Afghanistan and elsewhere, but very little is spent, relatively speaking, to protect young American schoolchildren. And Americans demand the right to own their guns. Why are there not required safety measures for storing guns when not in use.

You say correct then completely contradict what Jharek said.
First, Americans should demand all of their rights. Only fools give up their rights to government power. It doesn’t matter what right it is. But the issue is not guns, it is a decline in the morality of the culture.
Some localities have gun storage regulations, and technology is making that easier while still providing easy access for the owner for self defense.
https://thegunsafes.net/biometric-gun-safe-reviews/
For those that don’t there are civil and criminal liabilities even if there aren’t specific statutes.

While I agree that not enough has been applied to school security, it has nothing to do with defense spending. I even agree, to an extent, with the premise that we spend too much money on defense, but it has no influence on education spending.