80 Nights in Portland: Rioters Chant ‘Kill a Cop, Save a Life’ as Two Officers Hospitalized

[Annie]

The middle class are more likely to think rioting is wrong, I agree. They’re more likely to have a stake in “order”, and are more likely to have something to lose.

This is an interesting point. I notice most of the rioters are young, and many did not come from the areas the rioting originally occurred in. The older adults in that area are probably aghast that the “order” there has been disrupted, because the older people need it so they can do basic things like buy food.

So I can see that the rioters do not think they have a stake in the maintenance of order (altho if I lived in that area and my teenager rioted and caused damage like that, he would be the one in the family riding a bus to a grocery store far away to get food for the family).

The USA is experiencing an almost record breaking level of unemployment and is on the brink of mass evictions.

This is true, this time. Since we are rarely in the grip of such a pandemic and the riots still happen, I would say that the current circumstances are not really a contributing factor.

I think that would still be an expression of grievance.

Grievance, or envy and greed?

There have been lots of riots in Chicago though

Not related to the high death rates of young black men, which is continuous.

 

[JonNC]

Trump will do whatever he does to squash these riots without gaining too much negative press.

He hasn’t done much yet.

The Democratic local governments will do whatever they can to appear sympathetic to the broader movement and to appropriate it while allowing local and federal police forces to repress the protests.

I haven’t seen much repressing of protests, nor should there be. There should be repression of riots.

Trump is aware that sending in the National Guard could escalate things, and that’s probably why he is restrained. The idea that you can just crush protests like this through brute force is not necessarily true.

Nobody is talking about crushing protests, but it is the responsibility of government to protect individual rights, including property rights. Once a protest violates the rights of others, it is not a peaceful assembly to redress grievances.

This is true, but it’s probably less significant than you think.

Who is in charge of these police departments? Who sets the culture and practice? Who has been doing so for 50 years or more.
I think it is extremely significant.

The real issues are a product of capitalism as an economic system on a much broader level.

The real issues are an ongoing attempt by the progressive left to impose authoritarian socialism. The tactics we see carried out here spell that out. It has nothing to do with free markets. It has everything to do with the desire for power.

 

[Regular_Atheist]

This is true, this time. Since we are rarely in the grip of such a pandemic and the riots still happen, I would say that the current circumstances are not really a contributing factor.

But all of these riots have basically only started happening after the pandemic began. I know people have short memories, but surely you are aware that these riots were not happening mere months ago?

Not related to the high death rates of young black men, which is continuous.

Says who? These protestors don’t have any clear demands and the riots are largely spontaneous. We can only look at the general conditions of these cities to see why they might be rioting.

 

[Regular_Atheist]

He hasn’t done much yet…There should be repression of riots.

This is already happening. Rioters across the country have died. They have been using tear gas.

Nobody is talking about crushing protests, but it is the responsibility of government to protect individual rights, including property rights.

I agree. It is also in the interests of the proletariat as a class to oppose the government and to oppose property rights. One day the proletariat will violate all bourgeois rights, and do away with them entirely.

The real issues are an ongoing attempt by the progressive left to impose authoritarian socialism.

The “progressives” are on the same side as Donald Trump, the side of bourgeois order. “Authoritarian socialism” won’t come from the Democratic Party.

 

[StudentMI]

It is also in the interests of the proletariat as a class to oppose the government and to oppose property rights. One day the proletariat will violate all bourgeois rights, and do away with them entirely.

I would disagree with this. I believe Proudhon was right in his idea that (from memory) “property is theft, property is impossible, property is freedom.” The answer would lie in extending property rights (or, if you will, possession), not in limiting them. In a way with the system of government privilege to capitalism we see a limitation of the right to property, not its opposite.

 

[Annie]

But all of these riots have basically only started happening after the pandemic began. I know people have short memories, but surely you are aware that these riots were not happening mere months ago?

I know people have short memories… maybe you are very young, but apparently you do not remember the riots of the 1960s, particularly 1968; the riots on 1992 after the not-guilty findings for the police officers who were filmed beating Rodney King, high on PCP; the 2014 riots after the deaths of Michael Brown and Eric Garner; riots in 2016 due to the separate deaths of 3 black men by police officers. I have listed only incidents of widespread rioting due to racial/LEO incidents.

Says who?

Say the rioters. Say the protesters.

In fact, bring up the issue of black-on-black crime and you will be told that is not the issue.

 

[Annie]

Rioters across the country have died. They have been using tear gas.

How many rioters? How many by tear gas? How many who were not doing something they should have not been doing?

And how many non-rioters have been killed by the rioting or directly by the rioters?

Here is a list of the 24 killed as of July 30th (I could not find a more current list.). Seeems like the few rioters who have been killed were not killed by tear gas but by engaging in bad acts such as attacking people or trying to blow up an ATM.

 

[JonNC]

This is already happening. Rioters across the country have died. They have been using tear gas.

Tear gas doesn’t kill. The federal government has not been involved in these cities to any great extent. This is entirely on mayors.

I agree. It is also in the interests of the proletariat as a class to oppose the government and to oppose property rights.

This is where we part company. Opposing individual rights is promoting tyranny.

The “progressives” are on the same side as Donald Trump, the side of bourgeois order. “Authoritarian socialism” won’t come from the Democratic Party.

They won’t call it that, but the imposition of socialism has to be, by definition, authoritarian. And of course, it is the ruling class that benefits from socialism.

 

[Cathoholic]

Regular_Atheist on US rioting . . .

But all of these riots have basically only started happening after the pandemic began.

This is a partial truth.

You could play word games and insist that by definition all of THESE riots have basically only started happening after the pandemic began.

But there were other riots in Portland where an old guy got pulled out of his car and beaten to a pulp for apparantly nothing.

What do you think “wilding” is? We have seen that phenomenon since the Obama regime was more firmly in place.

And how bout those Baltimore riots long before corona mania?

And leftist California professors hitting innocent people in the head with his bike lock was not a recent phenomenon either.

No Regular_Atheist. This has been going on for more than a few months.

This is kind of authoritarianism is always close at hand in the leftist mind.
The crime? Disagreeing with them politically or like the innocent babies murdered in droves made possible by leftists, just existing.

 

[Theo520]

I’m still amazed at this outrage
Portland has been a progressive bastion for decades
Why do they blame their local PD for injustices thousands of miles away?