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Wampa
Guest
Is this information available online anywhere? I’m not doubting it, just wondering if I can read about it.
9 priests in my diocese have sexually abused a minor/minors since 1968
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Tis_Bearself
Patron
Not to nit pick, but this current scandal doesn’t involve Philadelphia. The investigative report on Philly archdiocese was released years ago, in 2005. The current 2018 report that was just released involves the Dioceses of Allentown, Erie, Greensburg, Harrisburg, Pittsburgh, and Scranton. There was also a previous report on the Diocese of Altoona-Johnstown released in 2016.
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SnowRose
Guest
That’s just not true and could make people trust the wrong person.
Abusers of many kinds tend to be charming and personable at first.
Abusers of many kinds tend to be charming and personable at first.
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Cruciferi
Guest
You’ve gotta be joking because that’s absurd.
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Roseeurekacross
Guest
It’s in the Royal Commission report I believe. A third of them are either suicide or overdose victims.
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Roseeurekacross
Guest
Just pmed you a link.
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KevinK
Guest
How could God allow someone like that to become leader of his church?
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angel12
Guest
No, that is NOT true. That’s the type of assumption that gets people to trust the wrong person.
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Fauken
Guest
How could God allow someone who was a murderer and a thief to be one of the Desert Fathers?
How could God allow a former hedonist to be a bishop and Doctor of the Church?
St. Paul murdered an Apostle. St. Longinus stabbed the side of Christ and had watched Him die.
5 Catholic Saints With a Sinful Past
Catholics honor the saints as heroes and heroines in faith. We look to their stories for inspiration to live holy and virtuous lives.
www.beliefnet.com
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
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CTBcin
Guest
Despite this, most priests live pretty modest lives. Any financial benefits a priest may have are far outweighed by stress they undergo in their daily lives, in addition to the intense personal sacrifices they make (ie- celibacy).
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Perhaps to show that God’s Church persists even when a sinful leader is in charge.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Don’t forget St. Julian the Hospitaller, who is the patron saint of murderers, and allegedly killed his own parents thinking that they were his wife and her lover.
en.wikipedia.org
Julian the Hospitaller - Wikipedia
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AlbertDerGrosse
Guest
I can’t speak for the OP, but for me what’s changed is my knowledge of the extent to which the problem is systemic, and the extent to which the hierarchy of the Church went around covering up the misdeeds. It’s one thing to see the priesthood/episcopacy as a generally holy endeavor with some (or even many!) bad apples in the bunch and it’s another to start seeing the priesthood/episcopacy as an inherently evil endeavor, a group of men surreptitiously cleaning up each other’s misdeeds and covering for each other. It’s getting harder and harder to avoiding coming to the latter conclusion.
Another thing about this scandal that sets it apart from earlier ones (at least for me) is the amount of the sordid details coming out. I’m able to come to terms with loads of priests/bishops doing horrible things that ultimately violate their own internalized beliefs (i.e. a priest who sins, even on who sins a lot), but reading the amount of sacrilege and blasphemy that seemed to follow these disgusting cases is astounding! I myself am no stranger to sexual sin (though I’ve never committed statutory rape or harassed/molested an adult subordinate) and in all of my wretched sins one thing I can confidently not accuse myself of is doing things like having a sexual partner stand naked with their arms out as if they were mimicking Our Lord on the cross. I’ve never told a sexual partner that my body fluids were “seeds of the Holy Spirit”. I’m horrified at how bold these monsters were and I can’t help but come to the conclusion that many if not most of them are secret atheists. There’s no way anyone could have even an ounce of the fear of God and do/say the things these men have done. This goes all the way up to men like McCarrick. I do not for one second think McCarrick believes in God. I don’t think he believes a single thing the Church teaches. His entire existence is a farce.
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Sarcelle
Guest
Do you have statistics of what percent of priests have been convicted of such crimes and how it compares to the general public?
In other words, are priests more likely to rape children than people in the general public?
In other words, are priests more likely to rape children than people in the general public?
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Jezra
Guest
To me, your response seems to be one of complacency. “Yeah, it happens. Life goes on. Que sera sera.” The official Catholic Church response has been one of “sorrow”. The secular world, on the other hand, is outraged.
We don’t live in a Doris Day world anymore.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
The priesthood isn’t “inherently evil”. The functions that priests are supposed to do in the course of their job are good, beneficial ones. To the extent you have bad priests, it’s like having dirty cops in the police force.
When you have a corrupt police force with a large percentage of dirty cops, then you clean house, put in new cops and new procedures. You don’t say “the police force is inherently evil” and do away with it.
As for all the people who are shocked by the details. I guess I have just spent too much of my life reading a ton of true crime, a ton of criminal legal writing, and some time working in criminal justice. I am very rarely shocked by anything a human might do. Sickened sometimes, yes, but not shocked that it happens, and it’s not news to me when the latest horror story of human beings hits the stands. I can understand somewhat when others are shocked, I know not everybody is like me and sits around reading this stuff, but the OP is a lawyer, that’s what surprised me, because in law school you are exposed to more of it in the course of learning what you need to learn.
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AlbertDerGrosse
Guest
That was poor word choice on my part. I’m not advocating abolishing or dissolving the priesthood. My point was that this is not longer just a bunch of bad individual actors scattered across the globe in otherwise good upstanding dioceses. In some cases entire organizations are compromised. In some cases entire dioceses, entire seminaries, entire chanceries, etc. are in fact inundated with filth. Those trees are so bad there there can be no good fruit that comes from them.
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MagdalenaRita
Guest
I totally agree that one is too many and it does make you feel sick. Sadly these priests who have done this have also made good, holy priests look bad. That is sad also. Besides staying for Jesus, the saints and the Eucharist, these good priests need to know we are still here. How hurtful this is to them. Also, where can you go in the world where there isn’t any sinners? Sexual sin is prevelant and our Lady of Fatima told us it would be. There is no where to go that wouldn’t put our souls in greater danger.
I also think that we need to show ourselves different than the secular world. Not complacent but forgiving and merciful. That is how Jesus would want us to be in the end. Yes, angry and upset over the sins but forgiving of the abusers and trusting in Him that He is the one who casts judgement. We forgive so we ourselves can also be forgiven. We can work very hard towards a solution, including in our own homes and communities, all the while forgiving those involved in the scandal. Forgiveness doesn’t mean no justice for those involved.
I think it is also important to remember, we too are sinners. Jesus would be asking us why do we have a stone to throw? Today in my prayers, I decided to drop mine and rather work with the Catholic church to bring an end to the problem and work towards healing.
I also think that we need to show ourselves different than the secular world. Not complacent but forgiving and merciful. That is how Jesus would want us to be in the end. Yes, angry and upset over the sins but forgiving of the abusers and trusting in Him that He is the one who casts judgement. We forgive so we ourselves can also be forgiven. We can work very hard towards a solution, including in our own homes and communities, all the while forgiving those involved in the scandal. Forgiveness doesn’t mean no justice for those involved.
I think it is also important to remember, we too are sinners. Jesus would be asking us why do we have a stone to throw? Today in my prayers, I decided to drop mine and rather work with the Catholic church to bring an end to the problem and work towards healing.
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Tis_Bearself
Patron
OK, so clean them up. This isn’t the first time in history that Catholic institutions have been a filthy mess. Monasteries for example were incredibly corrupt during parts of the Church’s history. Clergy were corrupt before the Reformation and at other times in history.
This doesn’t excuse the fact that it has somehow happened again, but it does build confidence that if it was cleaned up once it can be cleaned up again.
Unfortunately, the sinful nature of man is likely to make cleanup an ongoing process throughout history.
This doesn’t excuse the fact that it has somehow happened again, but it does build confidence that if it was cleaned up once it can be cleaned up again.
Unfortunately, the sinful nature of man is likely to make cleanup an ongoing process throughout history.
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AlbertDerGrosse
Guest
I don’t disagree with anything you’ve written. My whole train of thought here began as a response to your “so what changed?” comment. I was simply pointing out that the nature of this beast exhibits clear and obvious differences from the beast of the past decades and I can understand, even sympathize with, those who are having trouble processing it.
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