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A Bishop's Gesture of Kindness to Gay Man Who Sued over Discrimination
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wisdomseeker
Guest
can anyone here post the passage of the OT in which God says that because of their sins, God will cause man to love another and women to be wiht another women?
does anyone know what book God says this?
does anyone know what book God says this?
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wisdomseeker
Guest
"For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error. (Rom 1:26-27)
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God. (1Cor 6:9-10)
[T]he law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, immoral persons, sodomites, kidnapers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine. (1 Tm 1:9-10)
[J]ust as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise acted immorally and indulged in unnatural lust, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire. (Jude 7)
Genesis 19 in the Old Testament.
Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13.
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wisdomseeker
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Correct those in error? yes, if the person is willing to listen, if not, than leave it alone. remember what St Paul said to Simon: " give this man to the devil that he may learn not to blaspheme against God. "
Yes, very noble of you. listen to the teachings of the Church. do not be so concerned with controversial issues that arise within the Church among the people.
i am not a modernist. in fact, i stick with the Tradition of the Church. i dont subscribe to modern view of the Teachings of hte Church.
Monastery is the way to go. just this sunday, i was watching on EWTN, the life in the Monastery. it was about this community, i think in Canada. how diferent and beautifull.
it is a link to our past. they keep it alive for the life of the Church.
may God bless and protect you against false teachings in your journey.
the problem is, that there are many of us that live lives trying to change God instead of changing our lives for God. many want to believe that they know more than God. or they are kinder than God. if God Himself condemns something, who am i to say it is ok and good?
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wisdomseeker
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i have made known to all where i stand. that is all.
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wisdomseeker
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EnglishTeacher
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I was wondering the same thing after reading this thread. I think most would (rightly) frown upon the above hypothetical situation. So why is it okay for the two gay men to do the same thing? Confusing . . .
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kristie_m
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If you are living chastely with your girlfriend, and you tell me you’re living chastely, but I continue to speculate, because you share living space, who is committing a sin? You or me?
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EnglishTeacher
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Is speculating about it a sin? I don’t know; maybe.
But the point is that living with your boyfriend or girlfriend (whether gay or straight) is wrong because 1) you are placing yourself in temptation and 2) you are giving a poor Christian testimony to the rest of the world (or, in more Catholic language, “giving rise to scandal”).Just my opinion.
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scipio337
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I don’t necessarily blame the parish members for thinking the worst. Per the story, the man “self-identifies as ‘gay’” and was living with another man. I don’t think it is a huge leap in logic to assume that, but the best reaction would have been not to gossip, and to talk privately with the priest.
God be praised for this outcome! There are some laws that could infringe upon our ability to practise our faith.
God be praised for this outcome! There are some laws that could infringe upon our ability to practise our faith.
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onthenarrowpath
Guest
I know you have tried to make your case known. But I’m just not sure I understand or agree with your reasoning.
I thank you for being so charitable in your responses to me, and apologize if I have been less than charitable in mine. But this is a subject which touches home for me, because I live with SSA every day - yet, I have not had sex with anyone since 1992. So for me, it’s not such a hard thing to imagine that two gay men could live together chastely. Just because someone is gay, it doesn’t mean they are automatically engaging in sexual sin. The notion of placing oneself in a position of temptation doesn’t quite wash for me, because here’s another question:
What if a gay man lived with a straight man?
The straight man isn’t going to be tempted, but the gay man is still in a position of temptation, according to what you guys are saying. (Which, if I might say so, is quite unfair because you seem to be presuming all gay men to be guilty of some sort of inability to control themselves.) So it sounds as though the gay man can’t win, unless he lives alone.
Honestly, I sometimes feel like a wart on the nose of a flea - uttery worthless and defeated - in a position where I can’t win, because I’ll still be presumed guilty of some sin I’m not commiting. Now, if you’ll excuse me, I have a life in isolation to pursue, growing old and gray by myself.
God Bless you all. I’m out of here. This is my final post here at Catholic.com.
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LCMS_No_More
Guest
I totally hear you, brother. The bolded line seems to be what a lot of Christians (in particular) and Catholics (in specific) want for people like you and me. Kinda like the soup nazi, “No healing for you!”
Don’t let people like this get to you. Feel free to PM me if you like.
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JReducation
Guest
There is still either misinformation here or a misunderstanding. The official teaching of the Catholic Church is that homosexuality is not a sin. Sex between two persons of the same gender is a sin, but so is sex between people heterosexuals who are not married.
In addition, two people living under the same roof, of any gender, who are not living as sexual partners are not commiting any sin. There are millions of people who share a home or apartment for financial reasons or other conveniences and we do not judge them as being in a state of sin.
Aparently some people have never been to a community house of many secular institutes and secular orders. Men and women live in the same house. They eat together, work and pray together, recreate together and do ministry together. They are part of a family. But no one knows who is gay or straight, because it’s not one’s business and he Church does not require that a person expose this information in order to make vows in an institute of consecrated life. Nor does she require that houses of consecrated life be of one gender. That determination is made by the founders and the community itself.
The same rule applies to the average person who shares a home with others. As long as you keep you hands to yourself, you are not sinning. People who are whispering about thsi or that are just doing harm to themselves, not the individuals. These persons are causing the scandal. One has not right to whisper about the reputation of another person. As St. Paul says that he who passes judgment becomes a judge of the law. That is unacceptable in God’s eyes. Even the hierarchy of the Church does not pass judgment on individuals without proof.
The rule of thumb is very simple, avoid any action or appearances of wrong doing. Along with that rule there is another, avoid judging what you cannot see.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
In addition, two people living under the same roof, of any gender, who are not living as sexual partners are not commiting any sin. There are millions of people who share a home or apartment for financial reasons or other conveniences and we do not judge them as being in a state of sin.
Aparently some people have never been to a community house of many secular institutes and secular orders. Men and women live in the same house. They eat together, work and pray together, recreate together and do ministry together. They are part of a family. But no one knows who is gay or straight, because it’s not one’s business and he Church does not require that a person expose this information in order to make vows in an institute of consecrated life. Nor does she require that houses of consecrated life be of one gender. That determination is made by the founders and the community itself.
The same rule applies to the average person who shares a home with others. As long as you keep you hands to yourself, you are not sinning. People who are whispering about thsi or that are just doing harm to themselves, not the individuals. These persons are causing the scandal. One has not right to whisper about the reputation of another person. As St. Paul says that he who passes judgment becomes a judge of the law. That is unacceptable in God’s eyes. Even the hierarchy of the Church does not pass judgment on individuals without proof.
The rule of thumb is very simple, avoid any action or appearances of wrong doing. Along with that rule there is another, avoid judging what you cannot see.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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BobCatholic
Guest
Wow. Apostles never visited people who were sinners? Shocking revelation. Tell me more.
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JReducation
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If the Apostles had never visited and eaten with sinners, how many of you would be Christian? Aren’t most of you descendants of Gentiles?
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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Soutane
Guest
If you are living chastely-not sleeping in the same bed and living like brother and sister and expressing that fact openl;y,I am sure that your priest wouild understand.
Malicious gossipers would not but you would NOT be cauising scandal if you were declarative of your chastity.Often men and women share apartments or living arrangements together as friends or even relative strangers.
Often scandal is in the eye of the beholder and is more often a man and woman living non-chastely and being open about it and presenting themselves for the Eucharist which would be truly scandalous
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JReducation
Guest
I wish that people would be as concerned about abortion, euthanasia, infanticide, assisted suicide, discrimination, adultery, contraception, condoms in schools, capital punishment around the world, abuse of resources when the world is starving and people are unemployed and more, as they are about who shares a house together.
We are all in need of conversion, my dear brothers and sisters. If we stop to think about it, most of you would not be Christian if the Apostles had stuck only to orthodox Jews and not had any dealings with unorthodox Jews or with pagan Gentiles. Most Catholics are the decendants of pagan gentiles. How did these men and women receive the faith and from whom? The Apostles. And in many cases, these Apostles were their friends.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
We are all in need of conversion, my dear brothers and sisters. If we stop to think about it, most of you would not be Christian if the Apostles had stuck only to orthodox Jews and not had any dealings with unorthodox Jews or with pagan Gentiles. Most Catholics are the decendants of pagan gentiles. How did these men and women receive the faith and from whom? The Apostles. And in many cases, these Apostles were their friends.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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Soutane
Guest
Thank you for keeping us on track in this and other posts.We cannot be pharaisical when we must deal with the other issues that you have mentioned.God is concerned that we show His burning face of Love in dealing with these critical issues which you have mentioned>God Bless You and all who have contributed to this thread especially those that I disagree with.I wish that people would be as concerned about abortion, euthanasia, infanticide, assisted suicide, discrimination, adultery, contraception, condoms in schools, capital punishment around the world, abuse of resources when the world is starving and people are unemployed and more, as they are about who shares a house together.
We are all in need of conversion, my dear brothers and sisters. If we stop to think about it, most of you would not be Christian if the Apostles had stuck only to orthodox Jews and not had any dealings with unorthodox Jews or with pagan Gentiles. Most Catholics are the decendants of pagan gentiles. How did these men and women receive the faith and from whom? The Apostles. And in many cases, these Apostles were their friends.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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HolyIsTheLord
Guest
Dear onthenarrowpath, I just wanted to say do not take your eyes off the Lord and set them on men, especially man that is imperfect. They will fall short. It would be like a person turning from Jesus and his truth to listen to the imperfection of Judas. Fix your eyes on Jesus and keep on going down that path and know that you will see many more who use their faith to see the splinter in their neigbhors eye and not the log in their own. I saw Christ in the Bishop.You know, I try really hard to maintain a desire to become Catholic, but some of you make me want to run away from the RCC screaming. Some of you try and tell me not to listen to what other Catholics say - that I should pay attention to official church teaching. But hell, it’s clear some of you don’t. How can it be expected for me to learn something from fellow Christians when you have this holier-than-thou, self-righteous attitude that drives people away.
God Bless and I will pray for your journey.
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onthenarrowpath
Guest
Aw, man, I just stated I had made my last post here in the Catholic.com forums, and now I have to break my word…because I simply cannot leave without telling you how much I appreciate the kind words. Thank you SO much. I had a bad day today, and it’s comforting to hear the encouragement.
Thank you for your prayer. I really do need it.
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