A Book of Mormon tour

  • Thread starter Thread starter BartBurk
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Paul_G said:
This stuff in is no different than some LDS writer supporting bogus archaeological claims about the Book of Mormon. For every biblical archaeologist with a claim there is another with a different speculation, and they are all really just speculations and educated guesses about data swayed by personal bias and belief.

These pages do not offer artifacts that definitively support Biblical claims. As I said elsewhere I don’t need them to believe in the truths taught in the Bible, nor do I need them to believe the truths taught in the Book of Mormon.

Paul
Click to expand...
I agree there are truths taught in the Book of Mormon mostly plagiarized from the Bible. That doesn’t make the Book of Mormon as reliable as the Bible. Those pages actually did support Biblical claims – what do you want for artifacts? I can’t find a single Book of Mormon city anywhere. I can’t find a Lamanite or a Nephite anywhere. I can’t find a single reference to Jesus anywhere in ancient America. I have plenty of confidence the Jews actually existed and that Jesus actually existed. There’s good evidence that Peter and Paul actually existed.

The fact is the Book of Mormon has been shown to be a 19th century writing. There is no way to trace it back to the time of Jesus. Mormon apologists present a lot of smoke and mirrors as truth, but any simple investigation shows them to be pure speculation.

A good example is Nahom in the Book of Mormon. Supposedly, they have found this proof on the Arabian Peninsula for the Book of Mormon. But who found this truth? It is promoted by an Australian by the name of Warren Aston promoting Book of Mormon tours to the Arabian Peninsula. The man also claims to be an expert on UFOs and to have actually had visits from them. I just found this out this morning – simply amazing. Here’s a little background:

meridianmagazine.com/gospeldoctrine/080116nephi.html

Our friend Warren Aston speaking at a UFO Conference:

youtube.com/watch?v=NikV6YDW4Lk

Aston describing a UFO encounter in a DVD sold at International UFO Congress:

ufocongressstore.com/servlet/Detail?category=UFO+Conference+DVDs%3A1998+UFO+Congress&no=510&searchpath=30999

Aston claiming UFO cover-up at Pine Gap (US military base in Australia)

ufoinfo.com/ufoicq/auforn4.shtml

Aston: Are Extraterrestrials Already Among Us? A Review of Historical Accounts. Go to page 8 at this link:

theblackvault.com/encyclopedia/documents/MUFON/Journals/2007/June_2007.pdf

And then there are the Michigan relics being promoted by some as proof of the Book of Mormon. I believe Rod Meldrum is among those promoting these, but the best insight can be found at an exhibit of the Michigan State History Museum:

sos.state.mi.us/history/michrelics/revived.html

More crackpot theories with false evidence to back them up. The difference between Bible proof and Book of Mormon proof is simple. Proof for the Bible is generally supported by mainstream archaeology. Proof for the Book of Mormon is paraded out by crackpots.
 
teancum79 said:
Because too many can’t tell the truth and a lie repeated often enough is assumed to be truth such as the “no evidence” bit. It is repeated often and loudly yet it is quite false and anyone with a decent internet connection can figure that out for themselves, but if they are convinced there is nothing to look for they often won’t look.
Click to expand...
and thus you make my point for me.all the mormon testimony bearing in the world cannot change reality. JS claims are easily revealed as fraudulent. the internet connections you referred to are claiming more and more LDS every day.
 
BartBurk said:
I agree there are truths taught in the Book of Mormon mostly plagiarized from the Bible. That doesn’t make the Book of Mormon as reliable as the Bible. Those pages actually did support Biblical claims – what do you want for artifacts? I can’t find a single Book of Mormon city anywhere. I can’t find a Lamanite or a Nephite anywhere. I can’t find a single reference to Jesus anywhere in ancient America. I have plenty of confidence the Jews actually existed and that Jesus actually existed. There’s good evidence that Peter and Paul actually existed.

The fact is the Book of Mormon has been shown to be a 19th century writing. There is no way to trace it back to the time of Jesus. Mormon apologists present a lot of smoke and mirrors as truth, but any simple investigation shows them to be pure speculation.

A good example is Nahom in the Book of Mormon. Supposedly, they have found this proof on the Arabian Peninsula for the Book of Mormon. But who found this truth? It is promoted by an Australian by the name of Warren Aston promoting Book of Mormon tours to the Arabian Peninsula. The man also claims to be an expert on UFOs and to have actually had visits from them. I just found this out this morning – simply amazing. Here’s a little background:

meridianmagazine.com/gospeldoctrine/080116nephi.html

Our friend Warren Aston speaking at a UFO Conference:

youtube.com/watch?v=NikV6YDW4Lk

Aston describing a UFO encounter in a DVD sold at International UFO Congress:

ufocongressstore.com/servlet/Detail?category=UFO+Conference+DVDs%3A1998+UFO+Congress&no=510&searchpath=30999

Aston claiming UFO cover-up at Pine Gap (US military base in Australia)

ufoinfo.com/ufoicq/auforn4.shtml

Aston: Are Extraterrestrials Already Among Us? A Review of Historical Accounts. Go to page 8 at this link:

theblackvault.com/encyclopedia/documents/MUFON/Journals/2007/June_2007.pdf

And then there are the Michigan relics being promoted by some as proof of the Book of Mormon. I believe Rod Meldrum is among those promoting these, but the best insight can be found at an exhibit of the Michigan State History Museum:

sos.state.mi.us/history/michrelics/revived.html

More crackpot theories with false evidence to back them up. The difference between Bible proof and Book of Mormon proof is simple. Proof for the Bible is generally supported by mainstream archaeology. Proof for the Book of Mormon is paraded out by crackpots.
Click to expand...
Aston did not find Nahom, or “NHM”, German archaeologists found the stone alter with the inscription. This word having meaning to a LDS researcher, Aston took the directional information from the Book of Mormon and did some exploring about the location of Bountiful. His finding a location that might fit the requirements for bountiful, in his opinion, does not in its self prove anything, but it is interesting none the less. I find it interesting in your excursion behind “curtain” that you with them try to discredit the information by trying to discredit the man - Shouldn’t it be the other way around.

I and many others will agree with you about books that are written that state there is definitive proof of the Book of Mormon. The same holds true for the assertions put forth by the pages you presented. Yes there are verifiable places names in the Bible, however this is not surprising in that there has been a continuous unbroken presences in the Holy Land with historical and cultural information being handed down generation to generation. For example you say that we know about the Jews, we know this because there have been Jews in that land continuously for thousands of years.

I will repeat, there is no hard evidence that any of the events in the Bible really happened as written. The explanation for the evidence that is produced is purely the speculation of the one interpreting the information, and this is based on their prevailing thoughts and beliefs. I do not rely on science to justify my belief in the truths of the Bible, because science alone cannot.

We may never find what you would consider proof for the Book of Mormon, and even if we did you would most likely find some way to dismiss it anyway. So using the no archaeology evidence argument is more self serving than practical.

Paul
 
[Paul G;3915812]We may never find what you would consider proof for the Book of Mormon, and even if we did you would most likely find some way to dismiss it anyway. So using the no archaeology evidence argument is more self serving than practical.
Click to expand...
You, like most mormons, are afflicted with what Catholics call “invincible ignorance.” Meaning that, in spite of all evidence , you refuse to believe in the Truth of Christ’s Church. The good news is, you are not held accountable for it. But if it were me, I would take a very hard look at the LACK of evidence for the BOM and the other very shaky books that mormons call “scripture.”
Click to expand...
 
so again we see the mormon tactic of attacking the bible to “prove” the BoM…we can see that peoples lived in the time and place of biblical events and that the cultures described there are just like the cultures we can see evidence of. the technologies, the lifestyles, the general beliefs, etc.

the peoples we know of in pre-columbian americas do not match up at all with those described in the BoM. it’s not just the anachronisms and such that we find IN the BoM it’s all of those things that AREN’T in the BoM descriptions that we know were integral to these cultures.

we can also see the available materials during JS time and look at the people involved in the production of the BoM and the time they had to produce it and see a very plausible case for it’s complete fabrication. we really don’t see that in the case of the bible.
 
The issue of proof from an archeological standpoint is both legitimate and impossible. As has been posted, there is little proof for a good bit of the Bible, although some of it is easy enough to prove. There is an Egypt, there were chariots, we can see the use of bronze weapons. Rome and Greece were powers. The Persains were real. Yes, there is little proof for David and Soloman, although it is not as scant as some think.

But, and please correct me if I am wrong, the BoM describes an iron using society that we can find no iron from, that would have been centuries ahead of its peer group. Further, we see no genitic or other proof.

I am not sure what else to say.
 
ralphinal said:
But, and please correct me if I am wrong, the BoM describes an iron using society that we can find no iron from, that would have been centuries ahead of its peer group. Further, we see no genitic or other proof.
Click to expand...
Here’s a few more mormon bloopers for you.
** i) Reference to synagogues:**
The word synagogue or some derivative of it appears at least 25 times in the Book of Mormon.
Alma 16:13: ** “And Alma and Amulek went forth preaching repentance to the people in their temples, and in their sanctuaries, and also in their synagogues, which were built after the manner of the Jews.”
This statement assumes that these inhabitants of ancient America were aware of how the Jews built their synagogues.
Synagogues were an integral part of Jewish society in the times of Jesus as we see in the New Testament. The synagogue was established for the study of the Law, and differed very much from the temple worship of the Old Testament period, which involved many sacrifices in keeping with the Law of Moses. Scientific and archaeological evidence points to the origin of synsgagues as being about the latter part of the intertestamental period.
How could Alma and Amulek know how the Jews built thier synagogues when the Jews themselves weren t building them before Lehi (supposedly) left for the Americas in 600 BC?
ii) St. Peter is quoted hundreds of years too early: **
St. Peter paraphrases Moses’ words from Deut. 18:15, 18f in Acts 3:22f. However, I Nephi 22:20 mistakenly represents these words as Moses’ own words! Therefore Peter is accidentally quoted centuries before Acts was written or Peter had ever uttered his words.
Similarly, the words of Malachi 4:1 appear in I Nephi 22:15 over a century before Malachi wrote them.
iii) Confusion of the Old Covenant with the New Covenant:
The Book of Mormon confuses the Old and New Covenants. It stresses that before the coming of Christ the faithful kept the Law of Moses (II Nephi 5:10; 25:23-25, 20; Alma 30:3), yet they also established churches, taught and practiced Christian baptism, and were conversant with New Testament doctrines and events (e.g. II Nephi 9:23; Mosiah 18:17).
** iv) Jeremiah in Prison:
According to I Nephi 1:4, Nephi and his family left Jerusalem in the first year of the reign of King Zedekiah . In I Nephi 7:14 we are told that Jeremiah is in prison. However, according to the Bible, Jeremiah was imprisoned in the TENTH year of King Zedekiah (Jeremiah 32:1-2). So… perhaps Nephi was rferring to an event which happened AFTER he and his family left? This might explain the anachronism. But no, this is discounted in light of I Nephi 17:4, which is chronologically some time after the events of I Nephi 7:14.
** v) Greek names in a book with no Greek influence: **
Why are Greek names and words such as Jonas, Lachoneus, Timothy, and Alpha & Omega found in a book that should have absolutely no Greek influence? Anyone familiar with Old Testament history will know that Alexander the Great’s conquests of biblical lands came many centuries AFTER Lehi’s supposed departure for the Americas.
** vi) Anachronistic Metal Artefacts: **
The Book of Mormon mention bellows (1 Nephi 17:11), brass (2 Nephi 5:15), breast plates & copper (Mosiah 8:10), gold and silver currency (Alma 11), silver (Jarom 1:8), and steel swords (Ether 7:9)? However, no evidence indicates that these items existed during Book of Mormon times. In fact, metallurgy did not appear until the 800s AD.
** vii) Anachronistic agricultural methods: Livestock
Why does the Book of Mormon mention cattle, cows and calves, bulls, asses, horses, oxen, domestic sheep, pigs and & even elephants, when in fact none of these animals existed in America during Book of Mormon times?
The only domesticated animals in pre-Columbian America were llamas, alpacas, guinea pigs, and turkeys (none of which are mentioned in the Book of Mormon).
** viii) Anachronistic agricultural methods:Crops
Why are plough-based crops such as barley (Alma 11:7) and wheat (Mosiah 9:9) mentioned in the Book of Mormon when they didn’t exist at that time?
** ix) Disappearing Place Names:
Why didn’t any of the Book of Mormon place names still exist when Columbus discovered America? The place names seem to have existed only BEFORE the Book of Mormon was written, but not after.
** x) Seven Day Week:**
Why does the Book of Mormon imply a seven day week (Mosiah 13:18) when this calendrical method was unknown in Ancient America?
Click to expand...
 
Paul_G said:
Your comment mentioned archaeological evidence you have offered none. The fact is there is very little that can be used if any to scientifically prove the stories of the Bible, which is the burden you have placed on the Book of Mormon. I don’t know about you but I don’t need archaeological proof to believe the spiritual truths of the Bible, just as I don’t need archaeological proof to believe the spiritual truths found in the Book of Mormon

This is verifiable evidence?

Paul
Click to expand...
Wow, this is bordering on insanity. Are you seriously denying the existence of the ancient Israelites? There are cities all over Palestine that have stood since Biblical times. Can you visit any cities from the BoM? I’m not even talking about miraculous “proofs.” I can make the simplest claim, and it can be backed up with facts: The ancient Israelites existed. Proven fact. You cannot make the same claim about anything in the BoM that happened in the New World.
 
ckempston said:
Wow, this is bordering on insanity. Are you seriously denying the existence of the ancient Israelites? There are cities all over Palestine that have stood since Biblical times. Can you visit any cities from the BoM? I’m not even talking about miraculous “proofs.” I can make the simplest claim, and it can be backed up with facts: The ancient Israelites existed. Proven fact. You cannot make the same claim about anything in the BoM that happened in the New World.
Click to expand...
This is typical Mormon excuse-making. It doesn’t stand up to the evidence, but when their backs are up against the wall they try to save the Book of Mormon by denigrating the Bible. That should tell us all we really need to know about them. And they will denigrate our faith in the Bible by simply saying we only believe because of tradition instead of real faith. Of course that ignores all of those who were taught the Bible in their youth and have turned against it as adults.

I think my faith in Jesus through the tradition of the Catholic Church including the Bible is enough. The Book of Mormon adds nothing to any necessary faith. Anyone willing to investigate the Book of Mormon with their eyes open will discover there is nothing there. The Book of Mormon testimony rests completely on feelings rather than fact. It takes faith to believe the story of the resurrection, but I sure don’t need the Book of Mormon to bolster my faith in Christ.
 
ckempston said:
Wow, this is bordering on insanity. Are you seriously denying the existence of the ancient Israelites? There are cities all over Palestine that have stood since Biblical times. Can you visit any cities from the BoM? I’m not even talking about miraculous “proofs.” I can make the simplest claim, and it can be backed up with facts: The ancient Israelites existed. Proven fact. You cannot make the same claim about anything in the BoM that happened in the New World.
Click to expand...
The Bible like the Book of Mormon is not a History book, they are books relating spiritual matters. If you read my posts you will see I am not denying any of the historical or spiritual writings in the Bible. I am saying you must use the same criterion in comparing both books. First, can the spiritual writings in the Bible in the Book of Mormon be proven by archaeological evidence. I would say no. Can the writings on historical events be proven categorically, again I can say no. Can you find archaeological evidences for cities and peoples mentioned in the Bible and Book of Mormon. For the Bible, yes you can: For the Book of Mormon the answer is no.

Why you ask? Well instead of going through a time consuming explanation of how history is preserved. I will ask a practical question. What is a “chilazon” and why is it today, and was very important to the Jews at the time of Jesus?

Paul
 
Paul_G said:
Why you ask? Well instead of going through a time consuming explanation of how history is preserved. I will ask a practical question. What is a “chilazon” and why is it today, and was very important to the Jews at the time of Jesus?

Paul
Click to expand...
What the hell does this have to do with the discussion?

I saw an episode of The Naked Archaeologist about this a few weeks ago. I suspect you did, too. 😉

The chilazon is the animal whose blood is necessary to make the blue techeiles dye which the bible describes as being a royal color and prescribed for the tassels of the priests in the Jewish temple.

The chilazon is now believed to be the cuttlefish, sepia officinalis.
Here is a pretty good website about it.

If you are going to try to compare the loss of knowledge about which animal was the chilazon to the absolute lack of any artifacts from the Nephite civilization, forget it. That is not a reasonable comparison. There is abundant evidence of the ancient Jewish civilization and temple worship. Museums are full of ancient Jewish biblical artifacts for all to see.

Where are the museums of Nephite artifacts?
 
Paul_G said:
The Bible like the Book of Mormon is not a History book, they are books relating spiritual matters. If you read my posts you will see I am not denying any of the historical or spiritual writings in the Bible. I am saying you must use the same criterion in comparing both books. First, can the spiritual writings in the Bible in the Book of Mormon be proven by archaeological evidence. I would say no. Can the writings on historical events be proven categorically, again I can say no. Can you find archaeological evidences for cities and peoples mentioned in the Bible and Book of Mormon. For the Bible, yes you can: For the Book of Mormon the answer is no.

Why you ask? Well instead of going through a time consuming explanation of how history is preserved. I will ask a practical question. What is a “chilazon” and why is it today, and was very important to the Jews at the time of Jesus?

Paul
Click to expand...
The Bible is not a history book either, but the events that take place in it take place within the context of history, and where many things regarding history are related in the Bible, they can be verified through archaeological evidence. The BoM cannot make this claim.
 
It is my though that a lot of Mormons do not really believe, they are caught up in the pressure to believe. Family pressure. The ones that shine in their gifts would not think of going elsewhere. It’s more of a card carrying club. My sister who is LDS said that even if she knew the church was not true she would still attend because of all the good that it does. My pride would tell here that the Catholic Church is the largest charitable organization on the earth and it is expected to give not looking for any kind of transaction what’s so ever. And yes I still do have my pride as I am a sinner.

To get an idea on the pressure asserted by some I have a small story. I was standing in a grocery line a few years back here in Northern Utah. A grandmother was with her 3 year old grand daughter directly in front of me. The grandmother said to the child “Why does Grandma love you so much? Because you know the church is true” Think about that, meditate on that. Put yourself in that little girl’s position. Think about the years of this stuff to come for her. All the testimonies, and the ones she will be expected to have and share. What is being laid out her in the life of this child? The layers and layers of deceit innocent or not that would have to be pulled away to find the Jesus that we as Christians know.

As a former Mormon the Catholic Church has given me an awareness of the gift of life, the gift of the Spirit. God being my creator, myself being created by Him. I have found true humility and peace and in no way can I express this to a Mormon and do it justice. I feel extremely lucky to have walked through the door of this Church and I get it! I give all the credit to the RCIA Team that helped me by allowing God to work through them for my benefit. My whole being now is about helping with the RCIA, allowing the spirit to flow as it will to help others find the same. 2000 years of authentic Christianity which is the treasure found as spoken of in the parables by Jesus. Truth is truth and it never changes. In this comes comfort and the ability to confidently speak about it. If there are any Mormons in Northern Utah who would dare to walk into a Catholic Church visit our site at www.utahmission.com
We are not a den of wolves as some would have you believe, although we are a den of sinners in great need of Jesus.

In Christ
Rich
 
PaulDupre said:
What the hell does this have to do with the discussion?

I saw an episode of The Naked Archaeologist about this a few weeks ago. I suspect you did, too. 😉

The chilazon is the animal whose blood is necessary to make the blue techeiles dye which the bible describes as being a royal color and prescribed for the tassels of the priests in the Jewish temple.

The chilazon is now believed to be the cuttlefish, sepia officinalis.
Here is a pretty good website about it.

If you are going to try to compare the loss of knowledge about which animal was the chilazon to the absolute lack of any artifacts from the Nephite civilization, forget it. That is not a reasonable comparison. There is abundant evidence of the ancient Jewish civilization and temple worship. Museums are full of ancient Jewish biblical artifacts for all to see.

Where are the museums of Nephite artifacts?
Click to expand...
This is an example of very important things being lost to history when knowledge is not passed to future generations. I believe if the Romans had decided to remove Jewish language, culture, religion and history so that all traces of the Jews was removed from the mind of man, as they did with the chilazon, we would have no idea who those museum artefacts related to. We would be making up all sorts of stories about them.

We understand and can relate to a lot, in the way of ancient history, because we have a continuous unbroken passing of information from one generation to next. In the Book of Mormon it tells of the destruction of a civilization which did not pass on their language, knowledge religion or culture to future generations. As a result it would be possible for those that re-inhabited the land not to have knowledge of the people who came before, which is common today. People in that area, have in many cases, no idea of the people who build the ancient structure that they life among.

This in no way proves the historicity of the Book of Mormon, but it may show why it appears that there is no archaeological evidence or why we may not able to identify them. Even if we had it in our hands would we know it? It is a very easy thing to criticize by saying there is no evidence, I just don’t believe it is as simple as that. What knowledge we have today is completely dependent on what is remitted to us by the previous generation. So for me the jury is still out, and as I learn and am edified by the spiritual teachings in the Bible, so to am I edified by the same in the Book of Mormon without either one having to prove themselves.

Paul
 
Paul_G said:
This is an example of very important things being lost to history when knowledge is not passed to future generations. I believe if the Romans had decided to remove Jewish language, culture, religion and history so that all traces of the Jews was removed from the mind of man, as they did with the chilazon, we would have no idea who those museum artefacts related to. We would be making up all sorts of stories about them.

We understand and can relate to a lot, in the way of ancient history, because we have a continuous unbroken passing of information from one generation to next. In the Book of Mormon it tells of the destruction of a civilization which did not pass on their language, knowledge religion or culture to future generations. As a result it would be possible for those that re-inhabited the land not to have knowledge of the people who came before, which is common today. People in that area, have in many cases, no idea of the people who build the ancient structure that they life among.

This in no way proves the historicity of the Book of Mormon, but it may show why it appears that there is no archaeological evidence or why we may not able to identify them. Even if we had it in our hands would we know it? It is a very easy thing to criticize by saying there is no evidence, I just don’t believe it is as simple as that. What knowledge we have today is completely dependent on what is remitted to us by the previous generation. So for me the jury is still out, and as I learn and am edified by the spiritual teachings in the Bible, so to am I edified by the same in the Book of Mormon without either one having to prove themselves.

Paul
Click to expand...
Those who inhabited the land? According to the Book of Mormon those were supposed to have been the Lamanites. And yet we have no tradition that would suggest that. Please, don’t give me the FARMS excuses. FARMS says the Asians swallowed up the Lamanites. They say that because they want to find an excuse for why there are no Lamanites to be found. It’s a joke.
 
rich123456 said:
It is my though that a lot of Mormons do not really believe, they are caught up in the pressure to believe. Family pressure. The ones that shine in their gifts would not think of going elsewhere. It’s more of a card carrying club. My sister who is LDS said that even if she knew the church was not true she would still attend because of all the good that it does. My pride would tell here that the Catholic Church is the largest charitable organization on the earth and it is expected to give not looking for any kind of transaction what’s so ever. And yes I still do have my pride as I am a sinner.

To get an idea on the pressure asserted by some I have a small story. I was standing in a grocery line a few years back here in Northern Utah. A grandmother was with her 3 year old grand daughter directly in front of me. The grandmother said to the child “Why does Grandma love you so much? Because you know the church is true” Think about that, meditate on that. Put yourself in that little girl’s position. Think about the years of this stuff to come for her. All the testimonies, and the ones she will be expected to have and share. What is being laid out her in the life of this child? The layers and layers of deceit innocent or not that would have to be pulled away to find the Jesus that we as Christians know.

As a former Mormon the Catholic Church has given me an awareness of the gift of life, the gift of the Spirit. God being my creator, myself being created by Him. I have found true humility and peace and in no way can I express this to a Mormon and do it justice. I feel extremely lucky to have walked through the door of this Church and I get it! I give all the credit to the RCIA Team that helped me by allowing God to work through them for my benefit. My whole being now is about helping with the RCIA, allowing the spirit to flow as it will to help others find the same. 2000 years of authentic Christianity which is the treasure found as spoken of in the parables by Jesus. Truth is truth and it never changes. In this comes comfort and the ability to confidently speak about it. If there are any Mormons in Northern Utah who would dare to walk into a Catholic Church visit our site at www.utahmission.com
We are not a den of wolves as some would have you believe, although we are a den of sinners in great need of Jesus.

In Christ
Rich
Click to expand...
Hi Rich,

Very interesting perspective ( my humble opinion ),
Thanks for sharing 🙂

God bless,
Carl
 
Paul_G said:
I believe if the Romans had decided to remove Jewish language, culture, religion and history so that all traces of the Jews was removed from the mind of man, …

The Nazis tried to do that. It didn’t happen.

An anthropologist told me once that genocide never succeeds, because, by the rule of survival of the fittest, some always survive, and they are the cream. Mormon culture, and by extension, American culture, has tried for generation after generation to do this to Native America, yet it never worked. Raping Native women or cornering them into abusive relationships with white men backfires. I laugh when I hear Mormons say “There are no Indians left” :rotfl: Just because many of us can pass for white doesn’t mean that we no longer exist. We just have the gift of being able to go undercover. 😃

In the Book of Mormon it tells of the destruction of a civilization which did not pass on their language, knowledge religion or culture to future generations.

Natives DO remember the Vikings, and the parallels are are impressive. NOTHING else matches. Natives did borrow from their language, knowlege, religion, and culture, and did take in some of them. It was not totally destroyed.

As a result it would be possible for those that re-inhabited the land not to have knowledge of the people who came before, which is common today.
You do have extensive knowlege of them, and so do we.

This in no way proves the historicity of the Book of Mormon, but it may show why it appears that there is no archaeological evidence or why we may not able to identify them.
This in no way validates the whole of the Book of Mormon, but it does show that there is plenty of evidence that many of the later invaders, of Viking heritage, carried with them the same cultural values with which the original Vikings had branded many countries.

Even if we had it in our hands would we know it?
It is in your hands, but you do not recognize it. You have been blinded by your culture and indoctrination.

It is a very easy thing to criticize by saying there is no evidence, I just don’t believe it is as simple as that.
Amen to that.

What knowledge we have today is completely dependent on what is remitted to us by the previous generation.
Previous generations have given US plenty of information, but you refuse to acknowledge it, and try to suppress it whenever there is a hint of it rising to the surface.

So for me the jury is still out, and as I learn and am edified by the spiritual teachings in the Bible, so to am I edified by the same in the Book of Mormon without either one having to prove themselves.
I am edified by some passages in the Book of Mormon. I really don’t believe that those passages are the same ones which edify you. 😛

Paul
Click to expand...
Dangit!! Why do you open yourself to such obvious and multiple refutations!! Is it guilt??
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top