A Book of Mormon tour

[why_me]

Again, which part(s) of the Nicene Creed are an abomination?

I think that the Nicene creed is just fine even though I have this idea that three separate persons can make sense.

However, the corruption involved in the christian churches was quite prevalent at the time of JS. Hence the reformation of Luther a couple of hundred years earlier.

 

[majick275]

The action of the membership has much do with the creeds. If a church loses focus and becomes divorced from the words of christ, I am sure that it becomes an abomination. I cannot separate the actions of a church’s membership with the creed. It seems to me that most christian churches at the time of JS had blood on their hands.

this makes no sense. you are saying then that the bible is an abomination because people who believe in it do bad things.while you may believe that “the church” was wrong or became abominable your scenario doesn’t justify the creeds becoming abominations. they are statements of belief. what beliefs contained in them are abominable?

now that you painted all christian churches as murderers, if there is “blood on the hands” of LDS members does that make the articles of faith an abomination?

 

[AMDGtoo]

And like I said, those that are happy in their churches just need to say so. No problem for the missionaries.

It shouldn’t be a problem, but evidently it is. I’m perfectly happy being an original Christian–a Catholic, and yet I have lost track of the number of sets (and one or two triplets) that continue on when I say “not interested” (and even one set who begged “But we have a really, REALLY important message for you”.) My family had a fine heritage and legacy as well…until my poor daughter, who was Catholic one minute and then there was this handsome Missionary who evidently convinced (without any research BTW–just salesmanship, a handsome face, a bunch of unverifiable stories, and it looks like a promise to date her if she would only convert.)

 

[Strevel]

Personally I find all of the attacks on other faiths in these forums very non-Christian. What happened to respecting other beliefs and loving our neighbors? It seems like this particular forum of Non-Catholic Religions is a place for every “anti-whatever the religion may be” people to gang up and bash on those members of that religion who hold those beliefs dear to their hearts.

I find many of the posts here distasteful and even hateful. Did you like to pick on the fat kid in school or the kids with pimples and freckles too?

I think discussions are only valuable if people are really interested in understanding other religions. If you’re just here to bash, then I think it’s destructive for yourself as well as anyone else who is unlucky enough to read them.

Understanding your views, … people that have experience in an area will have a view sometimes contrary to those held by those that have diferent or usually no experience in an area.
My friend, your Church, my Church, is targeted by the LDS Missionaries for conversions to the LDS faith. We are being cannibalised like a wounded calf in a river of piranahs, and you want peace and lovie dovie. I say, warn the others loudly and in an animated fashion. Put up with the people that are to blind or missguided to see and will say “peace” as your knees are cut off.
I am Catholic out of choice. it means something to me. I know first hand of the LDS view towards us as I was part of it. We are considered “The Great Whore Church”. In Mormon Doctrine McKonkie said some things that he thought (he allowed it to be put in print) that the LDS Church had to back pedal on. It was very defamitory towards us as Catholics.
Sister, not everyone in the world likes others. There are people that will knock you over for their benefit and in the supposed name of God. Everything here discussed has been correct. And don’t think for a polite moment that I did not notice the tell tale word “bash” that you used. Bash, in the context it was used, is an LDS word for a religious discussion / debate.

Anytime others have an accurate point that shows the cracks and hollows in the LDS theology members of the Mormon Church love to claim that the person has a bias against them when in reality that person just has a better informed view. They clain “Anti”. Such is not the case. We are not supposed to be “pro” (a Latin word) the fish that tries to eat us in the river. We are supposed to be for US! WE ARE CATHOLICS and not a pagan religion the right in a free society to discuss issues and ignore the ones that wrap themself in their free speech while decrying others.! We have the right to discuss openly and freely in a fee society the defence of Holy Mother Church, her teachings and traditions and to defend the Savior himself if need be. The Red worn in the Vatican is more than a pretty color.

I am Catholic in my heart, mind and marrow. I do not feel a need to be polite to others (even tho I probobly should) that disturb me and act as if it is an honor for me to be disturbed by pimpely faced kids on a bike.

I am becoming Irrate. So, please excuse me!!

“I believe in one Holy and Apostolic Church…”

Don in Vegas:thumbsup:

 

[RAR]

Understanding your views, … people that have experience in an area will have a view sometimes contrary to those held by those that have diferent or usually no experience in an area.
My friend, your Church, my Church, is targeted by the LDS Missionaries for conversions to the LDS faith. We are being cannibalised like a wounded calf in a river of piranahs, and you want peace and lovie dovie. I say, warn the others loudly and in an animated fashion. Put up with the people that are to blind or missguided to see and will say “peace” as your knees are cut off.
I am Catholic out of choice. it means something to me. I know first hand of the LDS view towards us as I was part of it. We are considered “The Great Whore Church”. In Mormon Doctrine McKonkie said some things that he thought (he allowed it to be put in print) that the LDS Church had to back pedal on. It was very defamitory towards us as Catholics.
Sister, not everyone in the world likes others. There are people that will knock you over for their benefit and in the supposed name of God. Everything here discussed has been correct. And don’t think for a polite moment that I did not notice the tell tale word “bash” that you used. Bash, in the context it was used, is an LDS word for a religious discussion / debate.

Anytime others have an accurate point that shows the cracks and hollows in the LDS theology members of the Mormon Church love to claim that the person has a bias against them when in reality that person just has a better informed view. They clain “Anti”. Such is not the case. We are not supposed to be “pro” (a Latin word) the fish that tries to eat us in the river. We are supposed to be for US! WE ARE CATHOLICS and not a pagan religion the right in a free society to discuss issues and ignore the ones that wrap themself in their free speech while decrying others.! We have the right to discuss openly and freely in a fee society the defence of Holy Mother Church, her teachings and traditions and to defend the Savior himself if need be. The Red worn in the Vatican is more than a pretty color.

I am Catholic in my heart, mind and marrow. I do not feel a need to be polite to others (even tho I probobly should) that disturb me and act as if it is an honor for me to be disturbed by pimpely faced kids on a bike.

I am becoming Irrate. So, please excuse me!!

“I believe in one Holy and Apostolic Church…”

Don in Vegas:thumbsup:

Don?..

Dude, that was beautiful.

No, really, that was great. It makes me want to pick up my Catholic flag, charge the enemy, and stick it on the highest hilltop where it rightly belongs.

Seriously, this is what the Apostles were charged with… and they defended and preserved the faith of Jesus Christ with extreme prejudice. Heresy, down! Apostasy, get out of here! Schism, hold fast! Who are you to challenge my Lord! This is His church!

RAR

 

[Strevel]

Don?..

Dude, that was beautiful.

No, really, that was great. It makes me want to pick up my Catholic flag, charge the enemy, and stick it on the highest hilltop where it rightly belongs.

Seriously, this is what the Apostles were charged with… and they defended and preserved the faith of Jesus Christ with extreme prejudice. Heresy, down! Apostasy, get out of here! Schism, hold fast! Who are you to challenge my Lord! This is His church!

RAR

You are to kind. I was an active LDS, served the Mission, went to the Temple and BYU…the entire mind game. I do not feel a compunction to be nice to people that smile just so that they can get close enough to eat me bones and all. If someone walks into my yard my statment is “How can I help you” and not let’s negociate while I loose my yard inch by inch…
Even if you are not a member that believes the faith, but you practice Holy Mother Church (HMC) sociology you are also engaged in the worlds most time honored Tony Robbins Course. We recognise bad behavioral habits (sin) disscuss it (confession) then take reparative action. Others just mumble words under their breath and think that gets them over it untill the next time they plan on slipping up. We have solutions and are solution focused. When we participate in all the sacraments we have a stable life. We are taught to love others that are different and appreciate them for who and what they are. …and to mind our own affairs as others mind theirs.
I am glad to be Catholic and feel great about it I hope others feel the same about their faith. I want to improve day by day as a person using the faith as my tool. I will not improve in who I am if I walk with my head down, apologise for what I believe by not living it or proclaiming it politely and approprately.
Pax Vobiscum…
Don in Vegas

 

[twopekinguys]

I don’t think that the lds missionaries force themselves through the door. They must be let in. Let me put it this way: The lds missionaries get a bad rap on this forum. I hear no complaints about the protestant TV evangelization that one can see every day on the TV screen. Also, I hear no complaints about EWTN from catholics since this program is also about evangelization. Each church has its own system.

Can you say…Remote control? Sure, I knew you could.

Try changing the channel, then you won’t be bothered by EWTN or the protestant ministers.

Problem solved.

Here is the problem. How are the lds missionaries to know who is a christian and who isn’t? They knock on all doors to proclaim the name of Jesus and his church. They do not search out catholics or protestants. They just knock on doors.

If that is the case, then why do the missionaries skip me everytime they are in my neighborhood? Even if I just happened to be sitting out on the porch.

Could it be that the last time a missionary stopped by my house I explained to him that I was in charge of the RCIA program in my parish, and I handed him a Catechism, and a Catholic Bible?

You know as well as I do, that the people in charge of the missionaries keep track of who they should stay away from.

26 houses on my dead end street, and they hit everyone but me…hhmmmmmmmmmm:shrug:

 

[Nan_S]

If that is the case, then why do the missionaries skip me everytime they are in my neighborhood? Even if I just happened to be sitting out on the porch.

Could it be that the last time a missionary stopped by my house I explained to him that I was in charge of the RCIA program in my parish, and I handed him a Catechism, and a Catholic Bible?

You know as well as I do, that the people in charge of the missionaries keep track of who they should stay away from.

26 houses on my dead end street, and they hit everyone but me…hhmmmmmmmmmm:shrug:

The best defense is a good offense. Pack a catechism and bible in a shoulderbag or backpack, and put the dog’s leash by the front door. The next time you see the missionaries, grab the backpack and dog, head out, and “accidentally” catch up with them.

The more time the missionaries spend with me, the less time they have to spend trying to convert my neighbors. It’s a service to the community.

 

[RAR]

You are to kind. I was an active LDS, served the Mission, went to the Temple and BYU…the entire mind game. I do not feel a compunction to be nice to people that smile just so that they can get close enough to eat me bones and all. If someone walks into my yard my statment is “How can I help you” and not let’s negociate while I loose my yard inch by inch…
Even if you are not a member that believes the faith, but you practice Holy Mother Church (HMC) sociology you are also engaged in the worlds most time honored Tony Robbins Course. We recognise bad behavioral habits (sin) disscuss it (confession) then take reparative action. Others just mumble words under their breath and think that gets them over it untill the next time they plan on slipping up. We have solutions and are solution focused. When we participate in all the sacraments we have a stable life. We are taught to love others that are different and appreciate them for who and what they are. …and to mind our own affairs as others mind theirs.
I am glad to be Catholic and feel great about it I hope others feel the same about their faith. I want to improve day by day as a person using the faith as my tool. I will not improve in who I am if I walk with my head down, apologise for what I believe by not living it or proclaiming it politely and approprately.
Pax Vobiscum…
Don in Vegas

Sometimes I wonder if it would be more charitable to tell them to accept Christ’s church already and get their *** to the Mass.

I’d like to ask a missionary, “Are you passionate about your faith and about your mission? Well, don’t you think the Apostles were, too? Do you think the men who were actually taught by Christ would let His teaching disappear?”

The whole idea is pretty insulting really.

RAR

 

[zaffiroborant]

I don’t think that the lds missionaries force themselves through the door. They must be let in. Let me put it this way: The lds missionaries get a bad rap on this forum. I hear no complaints about the protestant TV evangelization that one can see every day on the TV screen. Also, I hear no complaints about EWTN from catholics since this program is also about evangelization. Each church has its own system.

Well as someone further on in the thread has pointed out I have complete and instantaneous control over my television. And even if I can’t hit the remote immediately, say I’m in the middle of making meatballs, the TV doesn’t demand any polite response from me. I can ignore TV, I wasn’t brought up to ignore people. So when the missionaries (of any stripe) knock on my door I’m annoyed. First the interruption by people who completely disregard my “No Solicitors” sign, this puts them IMO into the rude and disrespectful category(maybe even arrogant). Then after refusing to obey the laws on no solicitors they ignore my “I already attend _____” “sorry I’m not interested” or “no thank you”. It takes a minimum of 3 responses from me to their “pitch” before they agree to leave. And before they go they want me to take literature, never mind my hands are full of meatballs, or I’m holding a kid and dog or I’ve go on rubber gloves for cleaning.

On another note, as far as I’ve heard on radio advertising I’ve heard nothing from the Protestant or EWTN like I have from the LDS with their “Family isn’t that what it’s all about”. Which brings me to another gripe about the specific LDS sales point. Why do LDS assume that I don’t believe families can be together forever?

 

[BartBurk]

On another note, as far as I’ve heard on radio advertising I’ve heard nothing from the Protestant or EWTN like I have from the LDS with their “Family isn’t that what it’s all about”. Which brings me to another gripe about the specific LDS sales point. Why do LDS assume that I don’t believe families can be together forever?

That’s a big gripe I have as well. Of course when Mormons say this they are really saying that only Mormon husbands and wives can have sex together forever. The idea that we are all going to be together as a family in heaven without sex leaves the Mormon male missionaries cold. There is probably a reason all those old Mormons back in the 1800s married multiple young wives.

But as I was told in RCIA, a couple united in marriage here on earth will experience even more unity together in heaven when we are completely united with God. That unity in heaven will not be enhanced by accepting a false book like the Book of Mormon as scripture.

 

[KingAlfred]

I came across this web site with a “Book of Mormon” tour. How convincing is it to you?

onecumorah.com/tour_01.php

Not at all. Smith invented Mormonism for two reasons: 1) to ward off what he interpretted as modern liberalism (19th Century Calvinism) creeping into Bible-based Christianity in America. He wanted Protestant-style Christianity to remain essentially what it was during the 18th Century, in terms of the culture it produced); 2) to maintain strong paternalism in Christian family life, culture and society in America. Mormonism is just a ‘throw-back’ to the 1700s, with an unusual North American, theo-narrative twist. :crying:

 

[PaulDupre]

I disagree. I believe Smith invented Mormonism for 3 reasons:

1. to get money
2. to get power
3. to get women

It worked, too.

 

[BartBurk]

Not at all. Smith invented Mormonism for two reasons: 1) to ward off what he interpretted as modern liberalism (19th Century Calvinism) creeping into Bible-based Christianity in America. He wanted Protestant-style Christianity to remain essentially what it was during the 18th Century, in terms of the culture it produced); 2) to maintain strong paternalism in Christian family life, culture and society in America. Mormonism is just a ‘throw-back’ to the 1700s, with an unusual North American, theo-narrative twist. :crying:

You are making Smith out to be too smart. He wasn’t thinking that deeply when he invented Mormonism. He just didn’t want to be a farmer.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

My favorite BoM passages are 3 Nephi 28 and Either 2.

 

[lidiapurple]

My favorite BoM passages are 3 Nephi 28 and Either 2.

I don’t have a Book of Mormon. What are the verses?

 

[PaulDupre]

I don’t have a Book of Mormon. What are the verses?

Here is a link to all of the LDS scriptures online.

 

[Strevel]

The best defense is a good offense. Pack a catechism and bible in a shoulderbag or backpack, and put the dog’s leash by the front door. The next time you see the missionaries, grab the backpack and dog, head out, and “accidentally” catch up with them.

When I was on a Mission we kept small files by street name and address on a 3x5 card. When we got to a house of a decisive person that was solid in their own beliefs we marked “DNC” by their name. That means Do Not Contact.

Don in Vegas

 

[Strevel]

Nan S;3969606:

The best defense is a good offense. Pack a catechism and bible in a shoulderbag or backpack, and put the dog’s leash by the front door. The next time you see the missionaries, grab the backpack and dog, head out, and “accidentally” catch up with them.

When I was on a Mission we kept small files by street name and address on a 3x5 card. When we got to a house of a decisive person that was solid in their own beliefs we marked “DNC” by their name. That means Do Not Contact.

Don in Vegas

…, and some of you thought DNC had a political conotation. hahahaa

Don

 

[dzheremi]

I have seen these Mormon missionaries and their tactics at work up close. My father’s ex-wife became a Mormon shortly before the dissolution of their marriage, and actually, her conversion (from some sort of vague, nominally Christian belief) to Mormonism proved to be a big strain that actually helped to destroy their marriage. So much for “families being together forever” or whatever nonsense the LDS uses to hook people.

As for all of this “respect my religion” business…I respect your right to hold any religious belief you please so long as you practice it peacefully, but that doesn’t mean that I respect the religion itself. From what I have seen of Mormonism first hand, its beliefs are more than a little strange to me, and not even something I would feel comfortable paying lip-service to, as “why me” claims to be doing on behalf of his daughters.

I will not put down Mormon missionaries even though they helped to destroy my family at one point, but I will say that when they do come around here (which for a long time they made a point of doing more often than usual as they had success with my father’s ex-wife), I feel very relieved to be able to answer their call by saying “I am a Catholic, happily spoken for! Goodbye, gentlemen!”

Funnily enough, they don’t come around as often anymore…