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Xavierlives
Guest
I did not know the woman.
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Xavierlives
Guest
Then answer… just one thing. How can a work-free person be considered a Saint by the Catholic Church?
Because works are not required. Only faith is required.
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jmcrae
Guest
If you are talking about St. Dismas, the “good thief” he was certainly not “works-free.” He shared in Christ’s agonizing death on the Cross, not by giving everything he had to the poor, but by actually dying on a Cross.
Believe me, given the choice between his “not-works” and the normal stuff required of a Catholic, I’ll take the normal stuff that is required of a Catholic. It’s not nearly as painful or difficult!
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SHW
Guest
You are not “in Christ” unless you obey His commandments. He is not “abiding in” you unless you obey His commandments. You cannot enter eternal life through Him if you are not obeying His commandments.
John 15:10
If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.
See the word “IF”? It is conditional.
2 John 1:9
Whoever transgresses (sins) and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
If a person sins, then he does not abide/remain/continue in the doctrine of Christ and so He does not have God anymore. A person must remain/abide/continue in the doctrine of Christ (obey His commandments) until death in order to inherit eternal life.
It is best for us to agree to disagree and not continue this discussion.
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elvisman
Guest
Answer:
There are many ways this can happen.
Here are a few examples: When they die as a baby, or are mentally-challenged. Also, when they repent on their death bead.
**Remember - Faith (believing) is not a mere intellectual ascent of acknowledgement. James 2:19 tells us that even the demons believe in God and tremble. 1 Cor. 13 tells us that faith isn’t even the greatest virtue - LOVE is. Love is DOING - not simply believing. James 2:20 tells us that faith without works is DEAD. **
You must DO.
No - faith, for a Christian entails surrendering to the word and will of God. That means we must believe in everything he said and not making up our own human traditions as the various Protestant denominations have.
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qui_est_ce
Guest
James goes on to say that God credited Abraham’s faith as a work.
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Xavierlives
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Welcome back to the discussion.
Yes. I wholeheartedly agree with James. I do not want you to think that I am in disagreement with James, because I have said, works follows faith. Work is obedient to faith. But, faith alone is sufficent.
You are getting closer to my assessment of potential faith driven, without works people when you mention children and mentally handicap, but I think the church would view this more in line with John 9:42 than my assessment of faith alone.
As for 1 Cor. 13, I do not disagree. Charity is the greatest. Charity overshadows her sisters every time. But Faith came first. Without faith, we wouldn’t have the youngest. (I’ll let that sink in. I have to go for a bit).
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Xavierlives
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OOOoo… I am about to cry. We are finally there.
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tweetymom
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Amen and thank you x
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Xavierlives
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Yes. I am.If you are talking about St. Dismas, the “good thief” he was certainly not “works-free.” He shared in Christ’s agonizing death on the Cross, not by giving everything he had to the poor, but by actually dying on a Cross.
Believe me, given the choice between his “not-works” and the normal stuff required of a Catholic, I’ll take the normal stuff that is required of a Catholic. It’s not nearly as painful or difficult!
St. Dismas didn’t do anything spectacular. Some will die a painful death to cancer. Some will be shot. Some will go quietly into the night. We all die. But while he was up there nailed on the cross, that man did no works. He displayed faith. A small mustard seed of faith, that Christ was truly the Messiah and the blameless sacrifice for us all. He said, “remember me” and that faith, that little work, was sufficient to make him a Saint.
The irony in this all is the Catholic Church has never canonized that theif on the cross. You refer to him as St. Dismas, but the church hasn’t recognized him officially as other saints are acknowledged (at least as I can tell from a Protestant searching Catholic records), but it is hard deny him as a Saint when Christ says he is.
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jmcrae
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Right. He did not sin after making his Profession of Faith.
What is it that you think Catholicism requires of its followers?
We are required to not commit any sin after Baptism or after our last good Confession. Right?
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Xavierlives
Guest
We do not know if he sinned again. He had his legs broken, maybe he cursed the Romans. We can make a soup of supposition. The point is he did but one thing, displayed faith. The crew here would have everyone believe that works is required. We have now seen, works is not required, unless you would like to include faith as a work (as previously noted).Right. He did not sin after making his Profession of Faith.
What is it that you think Catholicism requires of its followers?
We are required to not commit any sin after Baptism or after our last good Confession. Right?
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qui_est_ce
Guest
You completely misunderstand Catholic Teaching. Catholics don’t canonize every single person who is a saint as an official Saint.
We have All Saints Day to honor all those unnamed Saints in Heaven.
The Holy Innocents suffered a martyr’s death as well. It’s called Baptism by blood.
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qui_est_ce
Guest
Did I not previously say that faith is a verb?
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Xavierlives
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I acknowledged your verb.
I was trying to address several posts.
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Xavierlives
Guest
But he is named or and is recognized, somewhat. I think there is a day or holiday or some Catholic recognition or whatnot. He was just not officially canonized as a Saint (although I am assuming it is because he didn’t perform any miracle or any other works).
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jmcrae
Guest
Not for someone who is already dying, no. God does not require the physically impossible from us. That doesn’t give an able-bodied person leave to sit around and assume he is saved. There are hungry mouths to be fed, prisoners to be visited, ignorant persons to be educated, dead bodies to be buried, and more.
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Bill_Pick
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Can you find the word thirity
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fbl9
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Money under the mattress is saved yet it is in danger of being lost.
Money in the bank is saved where it is safe and secure.
Under the matress is saved in this life
money in the bank is saved in heaven.
Money in the bank is saved where it is safe and secure.
Under the matress is saved in this life
money in the bank is saved in heaven.
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fbl9
Guest
Exactly i don’t know why people find the theif on the cross as a “loop hole” We must remember that it is Christ Himself who said to the person and only to the theif on the cross did He say what He did not to anybody else standing there. Also the theif did the only “work” he was capable of which was to rebuke the other.Not for someone who is already dying, no. God does not require the physically impossible from us. That doesn’t give an able-bodied person leave to sit around and assume he is saved. There are hungry mouths to be fed, prisoners to be visited, ignorant persons to be educated, dead bodies to be buried, and more.
No xaiver we can not make many suppostions given the words Christ spoke to the theif,“you will be with me in paradise” so it would be safe to say that the good theif did not curse when his legs were broke.But then again we look at where Christ was during the time His flesh was in the tomb St.Peter wrote to the effect that Christ was in the “prison” preaching the good news to the dead.So had the good theif committed a sin in his last moments He would still be with Jesus in “paradise” the land of the dead.
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