A Case for Once Saved Always Saved

[Xavierlives]

So far I agree with you

I like that fact that you said you wanted to DO your very best. That’s very Catholic.

You finished the race. You were not disqualified because you played by the rules.

But had you cheated and tried to take short-cuts you would have been disqualified and banished to hell.

You are leaving something important out. What did the prodigal son say to his Father?
“Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you, I am no longer worthy to be called your son”
The prodigan son did a work of confession and was truly sorry for the sins against his Father. Very Catholic.

You are right, the son said he sinned. But the father never “disowned” the son. He was still called his son when he returned home.

 

[Xavierlives]

No, you’re confused, once again.

They affirm that salvation is indeed a lifelong proces - a race that must be finished in order to obtain the crown. Your fauly reasoning of 1 Cor 3:10-16 only serves to prove my point because it speaks of a final purgation of iniquity and uncleanliness before entering heaven - yes, Purgatory:
***“According to the grace of God given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building upon it. But each one must be careful how he builds upon it, ******for no one can lay a foundation other than the one that is there, namely, Jesus Christ. ***
If anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, the work of each will come to light, for the Day will disclose it. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire (itself) will test the quality of each one’s work.
***If the work stands that someone built upon the foundation, that person will receive a wage. ***But if someone’s work is burned up, that one will suffer loss; the person will be saved, but only as through fire.”

---

Notice that the person is not yest saved, but WILL BE saved. They must be purged of their iniquity because as Rev. 21:27 clearly tells us - nothing unclean can enter heaven - and that includes Luthoier’s "snow-covered dunghills" . . .

Well I’m not confused, you’re not confused, we are both thinking with perfect clarity. Only problem is every time I do a seach in my Bible for Purgatory, I can seem to find it.

 

[Xavierlives]

Yes, they can.

The Bible isn’t a legal document that one would sign after reading. Rather, it’s a record of what went on before.

Actually, they’re not.

A contract is an exchange of goods and/or services.

A marriage contract would be an exchange of services - in return for making supper, keeping house, and occasional sex, I will provide for your material needs and do whatever heavy lifting needs to be done around the house.

A covenant is an exchange of persons.

A marriage covenant would be an exchange of persons - I give myself to you, to love you, to take care of you, to honour you, and to be faithful to you, in good times and in bad times, until death us do part.

God doesn’t make contracts with His people - He makes covenants.

And what is a covenant?

I pulled out Black’s Law Dictionary for this one:
covenant, n. 1. A formal agreement or promise, usually in a contract.

And what is a contract?
contract, n. 1. An agreement between two or more parties creating obligations that are enforceable or otherwise recognizable at law.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Well I’m not confused, you’re not confused, we are both thinking with perfect clarity. Only problem is every time I do a seach in my Bible for Purgatory, I can seem to find it.

Now the trump card comes out. Switch to another subject!

You see Xavierlives, it’s a matter of interpretation of scriptures. All Catholic beliefs come from scriptures, whether you agree with the interpretation or not.

I explained the Catholic view of once saved always saved from a simple perspective. You didn’t respond to it.

 

[Xavierlives]

Now the trump card comes out. Switch to another subject!

You see Xavierlives, it’s a matter of interpretation of scriptures. All Catholic beliefs come from scriptures, whether you agree with the interpretation or not.

I explained the Catholic view of once saved always saved from a simple perspective. You didn’t respond to it.

Errr… I am not the one who brought up purgatory.

How else would you like me to respond? Protestants don’t believe in purgatory. Not much else needs to be said other than, it isn’t in the Bible.

Moreover, I was responding to Elvisman, not you.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Errr… I am not the one who brought up purgatory.

How else would you like me to respond? Protestants don’t believe in purgatory. Not much else needs to be said other than, it isn’t in the Bible.

Moreover, I was responding to Elvisman, not you.

Does the Bible say one must ask Christ into their hearts to be saved? Or does it say one must believe? Does the Bible use the word Trinity? Does the Bible say that Sunday is the Sabbath? Does the Bible say it is the only authority?

Purgatory is scriptural, even if you don’t agree with the interpretation.

 

[Xavierlives]

So far I agree with you

I like that fact that you said you wanted to DO your very best. That’s very Catholic.

You finished the race. You were not disqualified because you played by the rules.

But had you cheated and tried to take short-cuts you would have been disqualified and banished to hell.

You are leaving something important out. What did the prodigal son say to his Father?
“Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you, I am no longer worthy to be called your son”
The prodigan son did a work of confession and was truly sorry for the sins against his Father. Very Catholic.

I don’t understand, confessing is work? or are you saying this is some sort of active thing a Christian does?

 

[Xavierlives]

Does the Bible say one must ask Christ into their hearts to be saved? Or does it say one must believe? Does the Bible use the word Trinity? Does the Bible say that Sunday is the Sabbath? Does the Bible say it is the only authority?

Purgatory is scriptural, even if you don’t agree with the interpretation.

I am not denying that you think it is so, I am saying it isn’t in the Bible. Show me the word purgatory in the Bible and I’ll start going to mass this week. But alas, you are the one who doesn’t want to talk about purgatory anyway. So lets get back to OSAS.

 

[elvisman]

Well I’m not confused, you’re not confused, we are both thinking with perfect clarity. Only problem is every time I do a seach in my Bible for Purgatory, I can seem to find it.

**Hmmm . . .strange. I can find support for it - no problem. **
**Your problem is that you’e looking for the word, “Purgatory”. THAT you won’t find. But, then again, you won’t find the word, “Trinity” - but you’ll find the doctrine of Purgatory very easily within the Scriptures (2 Macc. 12:43–45, Matt. 12:32, Luke 12:59, 1 Cor 3:15, 1 Pet. 3:19). **

**For that matter, “altar calls” and withholding baptism from infants aren’t in the Bible either. Neither is there a list of books that should be included in the Bible. Heck - most of you don’t even have altars in your churches so how could you have an “altar call”?

Keep reading - you won’t find the word, “Bible” in there either. Guess what - you won’t find “Spaghetti” in there either - but it does exist.

Remember - nothing unclean shall enter heaven (Rev. 21:27). The facts are all there, friend.
And you taught a debate class?

 

[Xavierlives]

Hmmm . . .strange. I can find support for it - no problem.
Your problem is that you’e looking for the word, “Purgatory”. THAT you won’t find. But, then again, you won’t find the word, “Trinity” - but you’ll find the doctrine very easily within the Scriptures (2 Macc. 12:43–45, Matt. 12:32, Luke 12:59, 1 Cor 3:15, 1 Pet. 3:19).

For that matter, “altar calls” and withholding baptism from infants aren’t in the Bible either. Neither is there a list of books that should be included in the Bible. Heck - most of you don’t even have altars in your churches so how could you have an “altar call”?

Keep reading - you won’t find the word, “Bible” in there either. Guess what - you won’t find “Spaghetti” in there either - but it does exist.

Remember - nothing unclean shall enter heaven (Rev. 21:27). The facts are all there, friend.
And you taught a debate class?

First things first. Charity. I am not being condescending or trying to belittle you. So tone it down a bit, friend.

I have no problem with the concept of Trinity because Jesus tells us in Matt 28:19. I don’t have to refer to the “Trinity” to understand God’s nature, but we aren’t talking about God’s nature. We can talk about how the Empire State Building isn’t in the Bible but it still exists, but all of this proves absolutely nothing. You are the one who is going off the debate topic and I am trying to get us back.

So, if you have some point buried deep in your post that I missed, please be so kind and to bring it front and center so we can discuss it.

Unless somehow purgatory was your proof against OSAS and then I need to flush that out a bit.

And to answer yor random question. Yes. I taught debate for 9 years. My team won a national championship.

 

[Third_Day]

You are right, the son said he sinned. But the father never “disowned” the son. He was still called his son when he returned home.

God will never disown us but WE can disown Him and when we do that we lose our salvation.
The prodigal son did a work by asking for forgiveness. We are not saved by faith alone.

 

[Third_Day]

. Show me the word purgatory in the Bible and I’ll start going to mass this week.

Show me the word “altar call” or “absolute assurance of salvation” in the bible. You can’t because it is a tradition of men.

 

[Xavierlives]

Show me the word “altar call” or “absolute assurance of salvation” in the bible. You can’t because it is a tradition of men.

Sorry, I am lost. Where did I mention “altar call” anywhere? As for Absolute assurance of Salvation, I like to use John 3:16 for my children.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I am not denying that you think it is so, I am saying it isn’t in the Bible. Show me the word purgatory in the Bible and I’ll start going to mass this week. But alas, you are the one who doesn’t want to talk about purgatory anyway. So lets get back to OSAS.

Oh but you’re very much mistaken. I have started a thread a few days ago entitled, ‘Extra/other doctrines’. It is for the people to bring up those extra, or other, doctrines they tell Catholics are non-scriptural.

See, that’s the problem discussing doctrines and scriptures with some Protestants. We provided scriptures and explanations of the Catholic interpretation and because those Protestants disagree with the interpretation, they continue saying it’s a non-scriptural doctrine. For example, let’s look at what you say above, “I’m not denying that you think it is so, I am saying it isn’t in the Bible.”

Playing semantics to appear to have proved a point is falsely presenting an argument. The term purgatory is not in the Bible, neither are the words ‘Trinty’, sola scriptura, Protestant or the phrase ‘once saved always saved’. There are a lot of words used that are not in the Bible. So how do you make your point from that?

If you want a thread to discuss only Purgatory, I’ll be there to show you, scripturally, where the teaching comes from. If you want to bring up my thread, mentioned above, I’ll be there.

 

[rev_kevin]

Jesus said he would not lose even one person whom the Father had given him. Thus, anyone who makes a sincere commitment to believe in Jesus Christ as Savior is secure in God’s promise of eternal life. Christ will not let his people be overcome by Satan and lose their salvation. This is in reference to John 6:39 about salvation.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Jesus said he would not lose even one person whom the Father had given him. Thus, anyone who makes a sincere commitment to believe in Jesus Christ as Savior is secure in God’s promise of eternal life. Christ will not let his people be overcome by Satan and lose their salvation. This is in reference to John 6:39 about salvation.

Christ also said:

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Xavierlives]

Oh but you’re very much mistaken. I have started a thread a few days ago entitled, ‘Extra/other doctrines’. It is for the people to bring up those extra, or other, doctrines they tell Catholics are non-scriptural.

See, that’s the problem discussing doctrines and scriptures with some Protestants. We provided scriptures and explanations of the Catholic interpretation and because those Protestants disagree with the interpretation, they continue saying it’s a non-scriptural doctrine. For example, let’s look at what you say above, “I’m not denying that you think it is so, I am saying it isn’t in the Bible.”

Playing semantics to appear to have proved a point is falsely presenting an argument. The term purgatory is not in the Bible, neither are the words ‘Trinty’, sola scriptura, Protestant or the phrase ‘once saved always saved’. There are a lot of words used that are not in the Bible. So how do you make your point from that?

If you want a thread to discuss only Purgatory, I’ll be there to show you, scripturally, where the teaching comes from. If you want to bring up my thread, mentioned above, I’ll be there.

So, you come to this thread to talk about spaghetti because you made a thread to talk about extra/other doctrine and I won’t extend you the courtesy to talk about purgatory or the Trinity when the discussion is Once Save Always Saved. Makes sense. :hypno: Oh hold on, you didn’t want to talk about spaghetti, you wanted to talk about Altar Calls. :hypno: Hold on that wasn’t you either. What side topic did you want to discuss instead of OSAS?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

So, you come to this thread to talk about spaghetti because you made a thread to talk about extra/other doctrine and I won’t extend you the courtesy to talk about purgatory or the Trinity when the discussion is Once Save Always Saved. Makes sense. :hypno:

Ok, I told you how Catholics view the once saved always saved and asked a few questions pertaining to the topic, but you never responded.

Some Protestants call it backsliding, what is your view? Can a person slide from grace and lose salvation?

If you believe a person considered themself saved and lived a good life for 10 years then fell away and started sinning greviously, is that person still saved?

 

[Third_Day]

Sorry, I am lost. Where did I mention “altar call” anywhere? As for Absolute assurance of Salvation, I like to use John 3:16 for my children.

Great that you use John 3:16 for your children. Do you also use John 3:20-21?

For ever one who DOES evil hates the light, and does not come to the light, lest his DEEDS should be exposed. But he who DOES what is true comes to the light, that it may be clearly seen that his DEEDS have been wrought in God"

Do you also use 1 John 3:19–24?

“ Now this is how we shall know that we belong to the truth and reassure our hearts before him in whatever our hearts condemn, for God is greater than our hearts and knows everything. Beloved, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence in God and receive from him whatever we ask, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him. And his commandment is this: we should believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and love one another just as he commanded us. Those who keep his commandments remain in him, and he in them"

Show your children what Paul said
“but I pommel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified” 1 Cor 9:27

 

[Rocket_Man]

Christ also said:

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.

You can’t take 7:21 and leave the rest behind. Jesus is speaking of false prophets!

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

**Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? **

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.