A Case for Once Saved Always Saved

[RebeccaJ]

Do you think Judas was sincere?
Do you think Jesus chose Judas because he knew he was going to betray him?
Do you think Jesus made a mistake about choosing Judas?

I cannot answer these, and neither can you.

See some people left, others stayed and truly believed and some, like Judas, stayed but tried to use Jesus for personal gain. Now many people today turn away from Christ. Others pertend to follow, you know, by going to church for status approval of family and friends or business contracts. But there are only 2 real responses to Jesus, yolu either accept him or reject him.

All sin.

 

[tweetymom]

tweetymom, am I reading you right?. You can commit adultery, incest, homosexuality, murder and not confess and repent and you will still be saved. Do you realize what you are saying?/QUOTE

I said ask for forgiveness. And of course you have to repent and sin no more.

 

[Xavierlives]

.So you truly believe that you can commit adultery, not confess, and still be saved.?? THis is a dangerous doctrine. I really believe that this is a doctrine of demons.
What does the apostle John say? “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness” 1 John 1:9
IF we confess…That means everytime we sin, not just one time and then you can commit adultery, incest, homosexual acts and you still have salvation.

.ANd you need to confess and truly repent and “go sin no more”

Not all sins are deadly, Rev. Kevin. Scripture clearly shows us that

All sin is the same. If I am living a life of gluttony or whether I am a habitual liar, it is the same to God. It is something that is getting between us. The Catholic church attempted to show Catholics through a series of “living in sin” sins, you could not fellowship with God. Greed is not a one time thing, it is a lifestyle. Any sin and be a lifestyle and a “mortal sin” (go ask your priest).

.1 John 5:16-17 There is sin which is deadly…all wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not deadly"
Deadly (mortal) sin that is not forgiven through confession to God will send you to hell.

What does “out of fellowship with God” mean? Doesn’t that mean that you no loner abide in Him?

John15 Jesus says “If anyone does not abide in Me…, he is cut off …as a dried branch …and burned.”

A person living in sin is cut off. Though the burning might happen later.

 

[Third_Day]

=Xavierlives;6204829]Not to brush the question aside but in this hypothetical it is difficult to just look into the heart of the man. I’d have to say, it is between him and God

.
You can’t just brush this off. If you do not confess and repent to sin no more you will not be saved. God cannot be mocked. To not ask for forgiveness is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

Hmm… well Moses murdered a man and he was in fellowship with God, so there must be a way.

Moses was not allowed into the promised land. You will not enter the promised land if you do not ask for forgivenss.

Do Catholics hold the keys to forgiveness?

Christ gave the apostles to forgive and to not forgive sins and that authority has been passed down. Confessing to a priest is how God wants us to confess. He uses priests as his instruments. Read James 5 where he says to call for the presbyters if anyone is sick and if they confess their sins they will be forgiven. He didn’t say to confess them to Jesus The context clearly shows they were to confess them to the presbyters and their sins would be forgiven.

 

[Third_Day]

=tweetymom;6204853]

tweetymom

, am I reading you right?. You can commit adultery, incest, homosexuality, murder and not confess and repent and you will still be saved. Do you realize what you are saying?

I said ask for forgiveness. And of course you have to repent and sin no more.

 

[Xavierlives]

.
You can’t just brush this off. If you do not confess and repent to sin no more you will not be saved. God cannot be mocked. To not ask for forgiveness is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

Where did I say they don’t ask for forgiveness? This was your hypothetical. I am just trying to figure it out.

. Moses was not allowed into the promised land. You will not enter the promised land if you do not ask for forgivenss.

You had better go back a read a bit. The murder Moses committed was not the reason he wasn’t allowed to enter the promised land.

. Christ gave the apostles to forgive and to not forgive sins and that authority has been passed down. Confessing to a priest is how God wants us to confess. He uses priests as his instruments. Read James 5 where he says to call for the presbyters if anyone is sick and if they confess their sins they will be forgiven. He didn’t say to confess them to Jesus The context clearly shows they were to confess them to the presbyters and their sins would be forgiven.

And we all have that ability now. If you sin against me. I can forgive you and my forgiveness is valid.

 

[Third_Day]

• Xavierlives I was waiting for this. What is more dangerous? Knowing that you are saved even unto death or wondering in death if you are saved? *.
  Believing that you are saved when you are not. That is what is dangerous. For you to believe that you can live in sin, even with deadly sins like adultery, and still be saved is in fact a doctrine of demons.

All sin is the same. If I am living a life of gluttony or whether I am a habitual liar, it is the same to God. It is something that is getting between us

.
That 's not what the word of God says. Have you ever read 1John 5:16-17? There is deadly (mortal) sin that can send you to hell if not confessed with repentance

The Catholic church attempted to show Catholics through a series of “living in sin” sins, you could not fellowship with God. Greed is not a one time thing, it is a lifestyle. Any sin and be a lifestyle and a “mortal sin” (go ask your priest).

You need to distinguish sins that are mortal and sins that are not mortal. If I steal $10 is that the same sin as murder or molesting a child or adultery?

A person living in sin is cut off. Though the burning might happen later.

It only takes one deadly sin for the soul to be dead

 

[Third_Day]

=Xavierlives;6204920]Where did I say they don’t ask for forgiveness? This was your hypothetical. I am just trying to figure it out.

I am asking if you, Xavierlives, do you have to ask for forgiveness when you sin. Yes or no

And we all have that ability now. If you sin against me. I can forgive you and my forgiveness is valid.

Are you sure about that? You can forgive me if I sin against you, but does that mean that God also forgives me?
If I commit adultery with your spouse and you forgive me, does that mean that God has also forgiven me? What if I never ask God to forgive me? Is your forgiveness valid over God’s? Does that mean that it is unnecessary to go and ask God for forgiveness? Where is that in the bible?

 

[rev_kevin]

.So you truly believe that you can commit adultery, not confess, and still be saved.?? THis is a dangerous doctrine. I really believe that this is a doctrine of demons.
What does the apostle John say? “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness” 1 John 1:9
IF we confess…That means everytime we sin, not just one time and then you can commit adultery, incest, homosexual acts and you still have salvation.

.
ANd you need to confess and truly repent and “go sin no more”

Not all sins are deadly, Rev. Kevin. Scripture clearly shows us that

1 John 5:16-17 There is sin which is deadly…all wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not deadly"
Deadly (mortal) sin that is not forgiven through confession to God will send you to hell.

What does “out of fellowship with God” mean? Doesn’t that mean that you no loner abide in Him?

John15 Jesus says “If anyone does not abide in Me…, he is cut off …as a dried branch …and burned.”

1. Yes. His eternal life will be determined by God on judgment day.
   John 10:27-30 My sheep recognize my voice; I know them and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one will snatch them away from me, for the Father has given them to me, and he is more powerful than anyone eles. So no on can take them from me. The Father and I are one. I don’t believe I said only one time and you can keep on sinning.

Being saved is when you accept Christ into your life.
Salvation is a gift from God. Its eternal life that can be lost.
We are talking of 2 different things. Lets not confuse the 2.

1. A sin is a sin its all the same. 1 John 5:16-17 Here John was referring to the people who had left the Christian fellowship and joined the antichrist. By rejectin the only way of salvation, these people were putting themselves out of reach of prayer. I most cases even if we know what the terrible sin is, we would have no sure way of knowing whether a certain person had committed it. We should continue praying for our loved ones and for our Christian brothers and sisters, leaving the judgment up to God. John says, " I am not saying you should pray for those who commit it,"rather thanm “You cannot pray for them.” John recognized the lack of certainty.
2. Aperson who lives in sin does not live in fellowship with God. When you sin you are out of fellowship with God.
3. John 15:5-6 remaining in Christ means A. Believing that he is God’s Son. B. receiving hin as Savior and Lord. C. doing what God says. D. continuing to believe the Good News. E. relating in love to the community of believers, Christ’s body. See many people try to be good, honest people who do what is right. But Jesus says that the only way to live a truly good life is to stay close to him, like a branch attached tot he vine.Apart from Christ our efforts are unfruitful.

 

[rev_kevin]

Rev Kevin,

Your true colors are showing here.

(John 17: 12) While I was with them, I kept them in thy name. Those whom thou gavest me have I kept; and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition, that the scripture may be fulfilled.

Son of Perdition aka Judas! Judas at one point was saved, then he lost his salvation. So with any Christian who accepts Jesus Christ and then by his or her own will accepts him no longer by a sin he or she is not willing to give up and at the end not confessing it…wow lets put it this way, I sure would hate to be in thier shoes at the end.

Yes, one can loose his or her salvation.

It would be better for him or her not to have ever known Jesus Christ, than for him or her to known Jesus Christ, and then left Him because of a Mortal Sin.

Rev. Kevin, I hope you don’t find out the Truth the hard way because then it will be too late.

UfamTobie

You are very funny, my true colors. LOL

Lets look a John 17:12 “…none of them is lose, BUT the son of Perdition…” Here we see the word BUT meaning except Judas. Judas was never saved. If he was it would have not mentioned the BUT it would have stoped at “none of them is lost.”

Lets see Saved is accepting Christ into your life
Salvation is a gift from God, eternal life, which can be lost
2 different things. Lets not confuse them.

 

[jmcrae]

Errr… I am not the one who brought up purgatory.

How else would you like me to respond? Protestants don’t believe in purgatory. Not much else needs to be said other than, it isn’t in the Bible.

Elvisman just finished showing you where it is.

 

[jmcrae]

Yes you are still saved but you are out of fellowship with God.

This is total nonsense - sorry, I’m talking about this sentence, not you as a person.

To be “saved” is to be in perfect fellowship with God; it is to be without sin.

So, it is nonsense to say that one can be “saved,” while not in fellowship with God.

 

[jmcrae]

Do Catholics hold the keys to forgiveness?

The priest in the Confessional has received authority from Christ to forgive the sins of his fellow Catholics; he has no authority over people who are not Catholic, however.

 

[Xavierlives]

Charity?
First of all, I haven’t shown any less charity than you have in some of your smug posts. You seem to have a real problem with the facts as they pertain to Scripture and are attempting to use the debate tactics you loearned in school by rationalizing the truth.

You have been given ample evidence that proves the exact opposite of what you’re trying to prove but you turn a blind eye.

Finally, it makes no difference to me if your team won a worldwide debate championship. You’re not doing a very good job at proving your point here.

I am doing a fine job. I am not expecting to make you believe. Geez. You are Catholic. Also, there are here contributing and I am not going to reiterate their points. This is a fluid collective work, so because I don’t answer something means someone else has.

And yes. Charity. It is that love thing.

Elvisman just finished showing you where it is.

Didn’t Rev answer it?

The priest in the Confessional has received authority from Christ to forgive the sins of his fellow Catholics; he has no authority over people who are not Catholic, however.

Whew… dodges a bullet there.

 

[rev_kevin]

This is total nonsense - sorry, I’m talking about this sentence, not you as a person.

To be “saved” is to be in perfect fellowship with God; it is to be without sin.

So, it is nonsense to say that one can be “saved,” while not in fellowship with God.

To say to be saved is to be in perfect fellowship with God; it is to be without sin.
If this is the case then nobody is saved because we all have sin and we all sin.

 

[jmcrae]

To say to be saved is to be in perfect fellowship with God; it is to be without sin.
If this is the case then nobody is saved because we all have sin and we all sin.

Right. We are in a process of becoming saved, but we will not be able to say we are saved, until we actually enter into Heaven, after we die. Whether or not we will be saved is dependent on our final state at the time of death, whether we are in a state of unrepentant sin, or whether we have repented of all of our sins, and relying on Jesus to help us through our death.

 

[Third_Day]

To say to be saved is to be in perfect fellowship with God; it is to be without sin.
If this is the case then nobody is saved because we all have sin and we all sin.

Rev. Kevin, not all sins are deadly. That is what you are missing. Only deadly/mortal sins separate us from Christ. Please explain 1 John 5:16-17
Thank you.

 

[rev_kevin]

Rev. Kevin, not all sins are deadly. That is what you are missing. Only deadly/mortal sins separate us from Christ. Please explain 1 John 5:16-17
Thank you.

I already explained in post 129 what 1 John 5:16-17 means.
We believe that a sin is a sin no matter how big or small it still puts us out of fellowship with God. But I understand what you are saying I just don’t believe it.

 

[Third_Day]

=rev kevin;6205019]1. Yes. His eternal life will be determined by God on judgment day

.Agree.

John 10:27-30 My sheep recognize my voice; I know them and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one will snatch them away from me, for the Father has given them to me, and he is more powerful than anyone eles. So no on can take them from me. The Father and I are one

.
Rev. this verse does not say that sin cannot snatch us away. Do you believe in free will? How do you know that you are one of the sheep?

I don’t believe I said only one time and you can keep on sinning.

Great we agree that you must confess every time you sin. But what if you don’t.? Will you be saved if you don’t confess and repent.?

Being saved is when you accept Christ into your life.
Salvation is a gift from God. Its eternal life that can be lost.We are talking of 2 different things. Lets not confuse the 2.

DId I read this right? You are saying that you can lose eternal life?

A sin is a sin its all the same

.
No. Some are deadly some are not

1 John 5:16-17 Here John was referring to the people who had left the Christian fellowship and joined the antichrist. By rejectin the only way of salvation, these people were putting themselves out of reach of prayer

.
How do you arrive at that? 1 John 2 " My little children, I am writing this to you so that you may not sin" Or how about 3:24 " All who keeps his commandments abide in him, and he in them"

I most cases even if we know what the terrible sin is, we would have no sure way of knowing whether a certain person had committed it. We should continue praying for our loved ones and for our Christian brothers and sisters, leaving the judgment up to God

.
Of course God is the final judge but He gave us a Church so that we know the true way to salvation.

John says, " I am not saying you should pray for those who commit it,"rather thanm “You cannot pray for them.” John recognized the lack of certainty.

I think John is saying that we cannot have confidence if we pray for someone in mortal sin that they will be forgiven. Mortal is is so horrible that our prayers may not help , This ties into verse 14 of 1 John 5

1. John 15:5-6 remaining in Christ means A. Believing that he is God’s Son. B. receiving hin as Savior and Lord. C. doing what God says

.
God says to keep His commandments.

D. continuing to believe the Good News. E. relating in love to the community of believers, Christ’s body. See many people try to be good, honest people who do what is right. But Jesus says that the only way to live a truly good life is to stay close to him, like a branch attached tot he vine.Apart from Christ our efforts are unfruitful.

ALl these things you listed are works of love. This is why Paul says that the only thing of avail is “faith working through love”. We are not saved by faith alone but faith working through love.

 

[rev_kevin]

Right. We are in a process of becoming saved, but we will not be able to say we are saved, until we actually enter into Heaven, after we die. Whether or not we will be saved is dependent on our final state at the time of death, whether we are in a state of unrepentant sin, or whether we have repented of all of our sins, and relying on Jesus to help us through our death.

1 Peter 3:21 “And this is a picture of Baptism, which now saves you by the power of Jesus Christ’s resurrection.”
Luke 7:50 “Your faith has saved you, go in peace.”
Matthew 1:21 And she will have a son and you are to name him Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins."
I see nowhere where it says we are only saved when we actually enter into heaven. Please show me that.