A Case for Once Saved Always Saved

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Dont mean to butt in but how could you be repulsed at the sight of what your very salvation was brought about by. The very reminder of just what Jesus did for us, the shear magnitude of love and sacrifice. Let me always be reminded of just how powerful the image of Christ on the cross really is and just what it did for me.
Because He won victory over the Cross and death! Taking Him off the Cross, meant victory for us! Tell me, when you watched “The Passion of the Christ”, were you doing cartwheels, and saying , "Whoo, hoo, crucify Him again!?"The Cross itself is a POWERFUL reminder of pain, shame, agony but most of all, L-O-V-E! And I know what it did for me, don’t need the crucifix! You can wear it though!
 
I think you are making excuses … from standpoint of situation ethics.

Doesn’t Paul tell you that he [and thereby you too] is convinced that ‘nothing can separate us from the Love of Christ’ ? Can you think of something that could cause you to fall away … that Paul hasn’t covered in his Apologetic on Salvation Assurance / OSAS ?
Indeed, yes. This is a very common misunderstanding about God’s love.

While we were yet sinners, He died for us. He will love us completely as we walk right through the gates of hell. His unending love for us does not equate to salvation. He knew, when, out of love He died for us in our sins, that some would not take advantage of His sacrifice.

I can think of a lot of things that cause people to fall away.
 
Because He won victory over the Cross and death! Taking Him off the Cross, meant victory for us! Tell me, when you watched “The Passion of the Christ”, were you doing cartwheels, and saying , "Whoo, hoo, crucify Him again!?"The Cross itself is a POWERFUL reminder of pain, shame, agony but most of all, L-O-V-E! And I know what it did for me, don’t need the crucifix! You can wear it though!
When Christ was removed from the cross the victory was already won. It was won while He was on the cross, not after.
 
common misunderstanding about God’s love.

While we were yet sinners, He died for us. He will love us completely as we walk right through the gates of hell. His unending love for us does not equate to salvation. He knew, when, out of love He died for us in our sins, that some would not take advantage of His sacrifice.

I can think of a lot of things that cause people to fall away.
Yes, G-4 …

Many things we can think of … and we somehow think that Paul didn’t deal with them in Scripture? They all have there basis in our ‘failure’ to keep the 2 Commandments of Christ and the Beatitudes.

We all have been Prodigals at some point after our conversion. To greater or lesser degree. Nevertheless, since we know the awful sins of Ninevah were FORGIVEN by God, because they listened to God, and repented of their great infractions. Over and over in OT, God forgives the equally great sins of his Jewish people … as long as they repented and confessed to priests, and made atonement.

Falling away is Normative, it would seem. Even Peter and the other 10, had their ‘brief’ moments of doubt and dispair. But, those God has saved thru Christ, he recovers. Scripture is very clear and dogmatic on this point. We need to mature to the point where we are not repetatively falling back. This was Paul’s message to the Church. Paul was teaching them in his epistles how to recover, and how to learn to ABIDE in Christ.

The sheep will listen and learn how. The goats will not. St. Teresa discusses this in her Book INTERIOR CASTLE. She teaches that our ‘Prayer for Union’ is needed. When the believers pray in this way … maturity will result. Perhaps we might say that the OSAS are those who take her message to the Church to heart, and learn from perhaps this greatest of Saints. She got her insights from scripture and a long life of prayer and obedience.

Recovery is key, as David and all we prodigals must learn. Perseverance is the key … and St. Teresa teaches the way to perseverance and S.A. If Catholics don’t know about S.A. … its because they don’t read and follow advice of their saints.
 
I don’t have a NEED to wear a crucifix. Was talking to a catholic on Sunday, and he was wearing one; it repulsed me, but ZIdidn’t say anything to him.
How can it repulse you to see your Lord giving you His ultimate act of love on the cross? Is it repulsive to see the lamb of God slain for us sinners? Is it repulsive to see God die a willing death because of His love for us? Is it repulsive to witness the suffering of Christ, take pity on Him, and be reminded of all our sins that have brought Him there?

If we don’t enter into the suffering of Christ, we will never understand His love for us. Nor will we repent of our sins with true compunction. Nor will we be moved to love Christ back with a pure and sincere love. The crucifix is not a sign of defeat; it is the sign of true divine love. If that is repulsive to you, perhaps in your subconscious mind, you still think of the cross in terms of shame.

Also, do you remember the centurion who was at the foot of the cross and didn’t realize Jesus truly is the Son of God until he saw Him die on the cross? We all need to encounter Jesus on the cross, just like this centurion did. It is precisely when we encounter Him on the cross that we will realize who He is, what He wants, who we are and what we are called to be.
 
When I witness to people during street ministry, about Jesus, a great many of them know about the death of Christ, without the aid of a crucifix!
Likewise, a great many of us know about the resurrection of Christ, without the aid of an empty cross! But we choose to remember the person on the cross, rather than the empty cross. We choose to worship the person who died on the cross for us, rather than the empty cross from which He rose. God’s willing death for the sake of sinners marvels me more than His resurrection from the dead. After all, if God is God, of course He can rise from the dead. But for God to die for love of sinners, now that is something to remember and to meditate on day after day!
 
It’s called the Shroud of Turin. 😃

There is also Veronica’s Veil - the one that she wiped His face with, when He was on the way to Golgotha. 🙂
And so we should believe that these are a representation of Christ then? When they look so different from each other? Isn’t easier to look at the Word and see his image?
 
Likewise, a great many of us know about the resurrection of Christ, without the aid of an empty cross! But we choose to remember the person on the cross, rather than the empty cross. We choose to worship the person who died on the cross for us, rather than the empty cross from which He rose. God’s willing death for the sake of sinners marvels me more than His resurrection from the dead. After all, if God is God, of course He can rise from the dead. But for God to die for love of sinners, now that is something to remember and to meditate on day after day!
I thought Christ was taken off the cross and buried.
 
I thought Christ was taken off the cross and buried.
When I met Jesus, He was off the Cross and risen! His death on the Cross was not beautiful, but it was powerful!👍 And it was not the nais that kept Him there, it was His love for US! In away, it is like the memorial for 9/11. Instead of looking at rubble and twisted steel, we see a monument to those who died on that day.:cool:
 
Likewise, a great many of us know about the resurrection of Christ, without the aid of an empty cross! But we choose to remember the person on the cross, rather than the empty cross. We choose to worship the person who died on the cross for us, rather than the empty cross from which He rose. God’s willing death for the sake of sinners marvels me more than His resurrection from the dead. After all, if God is God, of course He can rise from the dead. But for God to die for love of sinners, now that is something to remember and to meditate on day after day!
It is painfully clear, that Christians worldwide will be divided, until we stand together on that Golden shore. Each one of us is an individual, and has free will, a “gift” from God.We pledge allegiance to the same Saviour, but through the years have decided that for whatever reason, we believe certain things differently. We(noncatholics) who do not believe in crucifixes, also worship the King, who was slain on that ugly old piece of wood, which has grown in beauty, as we draw closer to Him. When we wake up on Easter morning, we see the same thing those who were around Golgotha saw: an empty Cross; and subsequently,an empty tomb! So, the debate rages on(perhaps a subject for another thread), crucifix or no crucifix? God bless you, my fellow Christian!👍
 
When Christ was removed from the cross the victory was already won. It was won while He was on the cross, not after.
The victory was complete, when He rose from the dead! And to do that, He had to be taken off the Cross! It is ironic, to say the least, that instead of His disciples and other followers, He was removed from the Cross by two Pharisees!
 
The victory was complete, when He rose from the dead! And to do that, He had to be taken off the Cross! It is ironic, to say the least, that instead of His disciples and other followers, He was removed from the Cross by two Pharisees!
Did Christ say “it’s finished” while still on the cross?
No Christ did not need to taken off the cross in order for Him to rise again; but He was buried to fulfil His word.
And you are sadly mistaken on your other claim reread the gospel written by St.John 19:38-42… they were Jesus’s followers.St. Luke disagrees with you too,as does St.Mark and so does St.Matthew…Again you misrepresent the truth here.
 
When I met Jesus, He was off the Cross and risen! His death on the Cross was not beautiful, but it was powerful!👍 And it was not the nais that kept Him there, it was His love for US! In away, it is like the memorial for 9/11. Instead of looking at rubble and twisted steel, we see a monument to those who died on that day.:cool:
Yet you still claim i keep Him on the cross by depicting Him crucified.
What is it, you can’t bear to look upon the one that you put there.
 
Did Christ say “it’s finished” while still on the cross?
No Christ did not need to taken off the cross in order for Him to rise again; but He was buried to fulfil His word.
And you are sadly mistaken on your other claim reread the gospel written by St.John 19:38-42… they were Jesus’s followers.St. Luke disagrees with you too,as does St.Mark and so does St.Matthew…Again you misrepresent the truth here.
Well of course He said,"It is finished while still on the Cross! But He had to be buried in order to achieve victory over the grave, such as we will when we die! So, He had completed almost all of His work, and then was buried, and rose again, as prophesied, on the third day. Why does the Bible say that Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimethea wwere Jewish leaders of the Pharisees?
 
Yet you still claim i keep Him on the cross by depicting Him crucified.
What is it, you can’t bear to look upon the one that you put there.
I don’t need to,even though I did put Him there through my sins! He is seated at the right hand of God, right? I derive no pleasure from reliving the most hideous death of all time. I do however know that without it, I would still be lost!
 
Well of course He said,"It is finished while still on the Cross! But He had to be buried in order to achieve victory over the grave, such as we will when we die! So, He had completed almost all of His work, and then was buried, and rose again, as prophesied, on the third day. Why does the Bible say that Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimethea wwere Jewish leaders of the Pharisees?
Only two of the gospel writers say much about who those that buried Christ were…St.John tells us that they were followers of Christ. And Joseph had no part in the decision to crucify Jesus…read the words written not want you want to see.
 
Only two of the gospel writers say much about who those that buried Christ were…St.John tells us that they were followers of Christ. And Joseph had no part in the decision to crucify Jesus…read the words written not want you want to see.
I did read the words, and I know that before they began following Jesus, they were devout Pharisees!
 
Well of course He said,"It is finished while still on the Cross! But He had to be buried in order to achieve victory over the grave, such as we will when we die! So, He had completed almost all of His work, and then was buried, and rose again, as prophesied, on the third day. Why does the Bible say that Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimethea wwere Jewish leaders of the Pharisees?
Now St.Matthew paints a bit different picture then you are telling us…Upon Christ’s death the bodies of many saints arose.
 
JL: True the prodigal (a waster) son is no different than many Catholics, Protestants, and OSAS Protestants. I have been a prodigal myself.
Thank you for making my point ! Every sheep in Christ’s fold, sees themselves in the prodigal story. The Good Shepherd will not lose what the Father has given Him.
JL: Really where does it say that is scripture? So you agree, when a saved persons sins, they lose their salvation and MUST repent and confess to be RESTORED. I thought OSAS was, you were NEVER saved in the first place. According to OSAS the Prodigal could NOT have been a true son, saved, in the first place, because if he was he lost his salvation. Just like that street preacher who became an atheist, your first post said he was not saved, when called on it you made the excuse, I don’t know the man.
 
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