A Challenge to Our Intelligence.

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NotWorthy said:
Why weren’t there any “Nazarene” sects left over after some converted to Christianity? St. Paul couldn’t have converted 100% of them, could he?
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**The Nazarene Jews were the most proselytizing sect ever in the History of Judaism. They had grown to become the largest Jewish Sect of Judaism. At the time Paul showed up in scene their map pins was crowded with synagogues almost everywhere throughout Asia Minor, and North Africa, specially Alexandria. And a boom of a congregation in Rome.

It is well known that one third of them were killed in the Bar Korchba War of 134 BC, about a third was absorbed into mainstream Judaism and a third converted by Paul. This last third contributed for the foundation of Chritianity. That’s what Christians today claim their Jewish roots are reported to.

However, they miscalculate a small fact, all Nazarenes that Paul succeeded to convert, they would lose their Jewish identity by reverting back to their previous condition of Gentiles bound only to the Noahite laws, which was exactly what Paul shot for.(Acts 15:28) **
 
NotWorthy said:
Yes. I would say all of these people were killed by rogues. None of these people, it could be said, were killed by “the American People”.

Jesus, Isaiah, and numerous other prophets, however…

And none of these Americans were killed by the leaders of the US. But Jesus, Isaiah, and numerous other prophets, however…
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**There is no “however,” you have answered your own question to me.

And what are you talking about by American Presidents not being killed by American leaders? We never know who was behind the guy who pulled the trigger.**
 
Ben_Masada said:
**There is no “however,” you have answered your own question to me.

And what are you talking about by American Presidents not being killed by American leaders? We never know who was behind the guy who pulled the trigger.**
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So don’t accuse if you don’t know.

Regarding “However”, I have no clue what you are talking about.
 
NotWorthy said:
Yes. I would say all of these people were killed by rogues. None of these people, it could be said, were killed by “the American People”.

Jesus, Isaiah, and numerous other prophets, however…

And none of these Americans were killed by the leaders of the US. But Jesus, Isaiah, and numerous other prophets, however…
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In Jesus’ case, do you say it was the WHOLE of the People of Israel? …And the Romans lent their hands, too, though not the WHOLE of the Roman People either…
In a sense, it is the sins of all mankind that are responsible for Jesus’ death…
 
Ben_Masada said:
** It is well known that one third of them were killed in the Bar Kochba War of 134 BC, about a third was absorbed into mainstream Judaism and a third converted by Paul. This last third contributed for the foundation of Chritianity. That’s what Christians today claim their Jewish roots are reported to. **
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“Well known” by whom, Y.? And where did YOU take this bit of information?
(If it’s reliable, please do tell us. Otherwise most of us will think you’ve made this up yourself and that you are so fond of yourself you have repeated it every day or almost since this was made up…)
 
Lapell said:
In Jesus’ case, do you say it was the WHOLE of the People of Israel? …And the Romans lent their hands, too, though not the WHOLE of the Roman People either…
In a sense, it is the sins of all mankind that are responsible for Jesus’ death…
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No, I’m just pointing out to our brother Ben that “good, loyal Jews” can kill an innocent man. They’d done it in the past with Isaiah and numerous other prophets, just as they did it with Jesus.

I believe, way back when in this or another thread, Ben claimed that a good loyal Jew could not have killed an innocent man.
 
Lapell said:
“Jesus, Isaiah, and numerous prophets, however…” You said this.
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Correct. But I have no clue what Ben means with his saying I answered my question.

Lincoln and Kennedy were killed not by the American people, but by rogues - enemies of the State.

This is different from Jesus, Isaiah, and the prophets who were killed by the State, not by Enemies of the State.

There is no similarity, hence my “having no clue” of what Ben is trying to say.
 
Ben_Masada said:
**The Nazarene Jews were the most proselytizing sect ever in the History of Judaism. They had grown to become the largest Jewish Sect of Judaism. At the time Paul showed up in scene their map pins was crowded with synagogues almost everywhere throughout Asia Minor, and North Africa, specially Alexandria. And a boom of a congregation in Rome.

It is well known that one third of them were killed in the Bar Korchba War of 134 BC, about a third was absorbed into mainstream Judaism and a third converted by Paul. This last third contributed for the foundation of Chritianity. That’s what Christians today claim their Jewish roots are reported to.

However, they miscalculate a small fact, all Nazarenes that Paul succeeded to convert, they would lose their Jewish identity by reverting back to their previous condition of Gentiles bound only to the Noahite laws, which was exactly what Paul shot for.(Acts 15:28) **
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Hmmm…

I got this from the term Nazarene Jews:
Modern UsageThe term “Nazarene” is used in Israel today to refer to Gentile Christians. It is also used for such in most Arabic speaking societies. It is not used too much to refer to Jewish believers in the Messiah and the term “Yehudim Meshiachim” or “Messianic Jew” is used more frequently in Israel instead. Why? There’s no record that non-believing Jews ever called Nazarene Jews by the term “Nazarene”. We only have record that the Church used this term and this was done by the Church to distinguish between Nazarene Jews and Ebionite Jews. Messianic Jews in Israel today feel a need to distinguish themselves both from Orthodox Jews as well as from Gentile Christians. The term “Messianic Jew” does a better job of that than the term “Nazarene” because Gentile Christians are called “Nazarenes”, so the term “Nazarene” would not distinguish them from gentile Christians, but rather associate them with Gentile Christians very strongly. But they also want to distinguish themselves from Orthodox Jews, so they call themselves “Messianic Jews” instead.**Conclusions **
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So the terminology is as follows;
a… “Nazarene” = umbrella term for both Jewish and Gentile believers in Yeshua as Messiah, Savior, God in the flesh. Describes UNITY between Jewish and Gentile believers, not differentiation. Since it is used for both Jews and Gentiles, it has never been historically used ot convey a sense of Torah-keeping, but used to convey Orthodox thought on WHO Yeshua is (God in the flesh, etc).
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BTW, this comes from: netzarim.info/index.php/The_Term_%22Nazarene%22_Part_1
 
Hello Ben,

Acts 11:
17 If then God gave them the same grace as to us also who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ: who was I, that could withstand God? 18 Having heard these things, they held their peace and glorified God, saying: God then hath also to the Gentiles given repentance, unto life.

The Holy Spirit of God commanded the apostles to accept the gentiles. They were under the new law guided by the Holy Spirit.

Again this is not Paul’s fabrication. Peter and others were witness to this too. Refer to my post #318.

Keep in mind that the Nazarenes and the Gentile Christians shared the same faith; that is they accepted Yeshua as their Lord.

Acts 15:
28 For it hath seemed good to the Holy Ghost and to us to lay no further burden upon you than these necessary things: 29 That you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication: from which things keeping yourselves, you shall do well. Fare ye well. From blood, and from things strangled… The use of these things, though of their own nature indifferent, was here prohibited, to bring the Jews more easily to admit of the society of the Gentiles; and to exercise the latter in obedience. But this prohibition was but temporary, and has long since ceased to oblige; more especially in the western churches.

Again bare in mind that the Holy Spirit of God is instructing the believers from both sides.
Please Ben refer to post 318.
 
NotWorthy said:
So don’t accuse if you don’t know.

Regarding “However”, I have no clue what you are talking about.
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**Regarding “However,” see your post #331

And for accusing what I don’t know, that’s exactly what you are doing, accusing our Jewish
leaders when the only clue you have is from the pen of the Hellenistic Gentiles, enemies of the Jewish People, who wrote the gospels.**
 
Lapell said:
“Well known” by whom, Y.? And where did YOU take this bit of information?
(If it’s reliable, please do tell us. Otherwise most of us will think you’ve made this up yourself and that you are so fond of yourself you have repeated it every day or almost since this was made up…)
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**That’s from the book, “The Bar Kochba Legacy” by Joseph Mendson, a book I just happened to find here in the Public Library, and read it. **
 
NotWorthy said:
No, I’m just pointing out to our brother Ben that “good, loyal Jews” can kill an innocent man. They’d done it in the past with Isaiah and numerous other prophets, just as they did it with Jesus.

I believe, way back when in this or another thread, Ben claimed that a good loyal Jew could not have killed an innocent man.
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All right, I think I understand. A good loyal Jew can, of course, if he is mis-led, just like anybody who is mis-led… Errors happen.
 
Ben_Masada said:
**That’s from the book, “The Bar Kochba Legacy” by Joseph Mendson, a book I just happened to find here in the Public Library, and read it. **
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Is that your only source? No other texts or books? And when was it published?
 
Ben_Masada said:
Regarding “However,” see your post #331
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Yes, However.

Jesus, Isaiah, and prophets - killed by the Jewish leaders.
Abraham Lincoln, John F Kennedy, Martin Luther King - Killed by idiots and rogues.

I really don’t see the connection, unless you are calling the Jewish leaders idiots and rogues. I don’t think you are, hence, my clue-less-ness.
Ben_Masada said:
And for accusing what I don’t know, that’s exactly what you are doing, accusing our Jewish
leaders when the only clue you have is from the pen of the Hellenistic Gentiles, enemies of the Jewish People, who wrote the gospels.
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You’re right. I should just throw out the only historical evidence and make it up as I go along!
 
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NotWorthy:
Yes, However.

Jesus, Isaiah, and prophets - killed by the Jewish leaders.
Abraham Lincoln, John F Kennedy, Martin Luther King - Killed by idiots and rogues.

I really don’t see the connection, unless you are calling the Jewish leaders idiots and rogues. I don’t think you are, hence, my clue-less-ness.
You’re right. I should just throw out the only historical evidence and make it up as I go along!

**Would you please provide quotations to prove that the Jewish leaders killed Jesus, Isaiah and other Prophets, except for Jezabel the Pagan wife of King Ahab? **
 
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