Quite right. And furthermore, if the Holy Spirit speaks through the Church, and in particular speaks through her Councils, then we come in contact with the Holy Spirit when we are faithful to the Church and her Councils. And thus the proper question to ask is, how faithful are “Charismatic Masses” to the Church and her Councils?My only problem with the idea of a “charismatic mass” is this: how do you have closer contact with the Holy Spirit than through the Body and Blood of Christ?
EVERY Eucharistic Sacrifice is by its nature charismatic.
Brotherhrolf:Please let us have a Catholic channel devoid of protestant overtones. As far as the East is from the West…
This struck a chord with me. It smacks of “showiness”…yes, I know…don’t think that’s even a word…and too much “look at me”.I don’t get EWTN on my TV-I have neither satellite nor cable. But I personally am not fond of the Charismatics-they rely too much on emotionalism. I had been to a number of ‘healing Masses’ in the past. I’ve also gone up to be prayed over-but I NEVER FELL DOWN ON THE FLOOR!
Has anyone here read the biography of Mother Angelica by Raymond Arroyo? She was in the Charismatic Movement in the 1970s.
In answer to the thread question: no, I don’t think EWTN will have a ‘Charismatic Mass’. Wouldn’t want to alienate the big contributors…
It isn’t necessary. Catholics simply need to take back the movement and make it their own again. St. Paul prayed in tongues, he said more than any of the Corinthians, but he did it in private and said it was not to be done in public gatherings unless someone with the gift of interpretation was there. If Catholic charismatics choose to they can give their charismatic prayer Catholic overtones.Now that’s fine for the Pentecostals but why is it necessary in the Catholic Church?
But why?It isn’t necessary. Catholics simply need to take back the movement and make it their own again. St. Paul prayed in tongues, he said more than any of the Corinthians, but he did it in private and said it was not to be done in public gatherings unless someone with the gift of interpretation was there. If Catholic charismatics choose to they can give their charismatic prayer Catholic overtones.
Again, I am not a charismatic, but instead of discussing the pro’s and con’s of a charismatic Mass, why not start with a Charismatic rosary done quietly and reverently. The priest who baptized me, Fr. Tom, was a charismatic priest but I never saw or heard him do anything that was not done reverently and in order.
Marsha
BSHoop:But why?
And what is a charismatic rosary? In tongues? Again…why?
Sorry, I’m not trying to be unkind. Your priest may have been charismatic privately but I don’t think the movement is done privately. The first time someone starts speaking in tongues and falls down being “slain in the spirit” as my husband told me it was called in the fundamentalist churches…I’m leaving their presence. We don’t do many things that were done in biblical times. There was a point to it then. I fail to see the point now. I am willing to say that maybe there is something lacking in me and I just don’t understand.
I agree.Just as I think EWTN sometimes goes a bit (just a bit) too far in the traditional direction. I think that the Charismatics go way to far in an odd liturgical direction for the church.
Even though the CCM may be sound I don’t think it should be broadcast as it could confuse viewers.
And really- the CCM’s ideas about “speaking in tongues” are not the same as the “tongues” described in the scriptures.
As with any personal devotion—you cannot know the mind of the other person—leave that to God. Traditional personal devotions or expressions of piety may be considered “showy”, but it is not Christian to make an accusation.This struck a chord with me. It smacks of “showiness”…yes, I know…don’t think that’s even a word…and too much “look at me”.
And as much as some people want to deny its protestant connections the charismatic movement “as it is commonly seen in our day” has protestant overtones. Now that’s fine for the Pentecostals but why is it necessary in the Catholic Church?
no they are not mutually exclusive, like all approved expressions of spirituality in the Church they are mutually supportive. Yes such programming is possible. At least one regular contributor to EWTN Fr. Michael Scanlan, retired president of Franciscan University of Steubenville, is a charismatic Catholic, and the story of how he revived the dying college by recourse to the Holy Spirit is moving and eye-opening to critics of this movement.Are the spiritualities of the “Catholic Charismatic Movement” and EWTN compatible? (Occasional references of the CCM by EWTN don’t count.)
Could there ever be dedicated CCM programming on EWTN?
Are they mutually exclusive?
Just to clarify, there is no such thing as a Charismatic Mass as in a Charismatic Rite. The “Charismatic Mass” would be an OF (NO) Mass with “Charismatic” elements added.I want to experience a Latin Mass, Charismatic Mass and all the other Rites Mass’es.
We are not supposed to do things that call attention to ourselves so if I consider it showy then naturally I think of it as “calling attention to myself”. I don’t mean to suggest that these people are “bad” by doing it. Just misinformed. Recent popes may have celebrated it but I believe I am correct in that certain movements have had to be told to “tone down” or “put the brakes on” so to speak. This is been spoken of before in these forums.As with any personal devotion—you cannot know the mind of the other person—leave that to God. Traditional personal devotions or expressions of piety may be considered “showy”, but it is not Christian to make an accusation.
The high praise of the Charismatic worship is very uplifting, and praise is the most neglected form of prayer. Both recent popes have celebrated Mass for the Charismatics, and are very supportive of them.This may not be a personal preference, but it is very wrong to comdemn it or those who worship in that style.
EWTN is a very conservative channel. They do not show any of the movement worship or even have much if any programming of any of the authentic movements of the Catholic Church. I doubt they will ever televise a charismatic Mass, but this does not make it wrong----just not conservative or traditional.
Lux
We are not supposed to do things that call attention to ourselves so if I consider it showy then naturally I think of it as “calling attention to myself”. I don’t mean to suggest that these people are “bad” by doing it. Just misinformed. Recent popes may have celebrated it but I believe I am correct in that certain movements have had to be told to “tone down” or “put the brakes on” so to speak. This is been spoken of before in these forums.
To praise God out loud and worship in song and praise is not about calling attention to oneself, but giving glory to God. It is about lifting up your heart and voice to the Lord. God inhabits the praise of His people. Now some people may do so to draw attention to oneself, but that does not negate all those who are caught up in the Holy Spirit and offering glory to God through praise and song. When I praise God out loud, it is for God not for man. Have you ever been to a football game and cheered on the winning team with excitement? Well, why don’t we ever do that for Jesus? Doesn’t He deserve more praise and glory than all these sports teams that we get all excited about? I am thankful that the Catholic Church acknowledges that there are different expressions of spirituality and that some may be called to one over another.
BSHoop96;4646443:
I do understand what you are trying to say, however, your example almost makes my point. I prefer that the Mass remains dignified, reverent, without outbursts…nothing at all like the wild mayhem at a great football game!We are not supposed to do things that call attention to ourselves so if I consider it showy then naturally I think of it as “calling attention to myself”. I don’t mean to suggest that these people are “bad” by doing it. Just misinformed. Recent popes may have celebrated it but I believe I am correct in that certain movements have had to be told to “tone down” or “put the brakes on” so to speak. This is been spoken of before in these forums.
To praise God out loud and worship in song and praise is not about calling attention to oneself, but giving glory to God. It is about lifting up your heart and voice to the Lord. God inhabits the praise of His people. Now some people may do so to draw attention to oneself, but that does not negate all those who are caught up in the Holy Spirit and offering glory to God through praise and song. When I praise God out loud, it is for God not for man. Have you ever been to a football game and cheered on the winning team with excitement? Well, why don’t we ever do that for Jesus? Doesn’t He deserve more praise and glory than all these sports teams that we get all excited about? I am thankful that the Catholic Church acknowledges that there are different expressions of spirituality and that some may be called to one over another.