A Christian challenge

[kellie]

Okay then why were there so many pagans before jesus came?

Because they saw the beauty of the trees in autumn, or the snowflakes in winter, they felt the warm heat of the sun in summer, or saw the flowers blooming in spring, and thought that there must be a high being that made each one

So they gave them names, worshipped and praised them for their wonders

Then Jesus came along and told them the Truth

 

[reborn_pagan]

No, the christians followed the mandate of Christ, who was the son of god, and worked miracles. The christians didn’t invent a religion - they were taught by the diciples (i.e. students) of Jesus Christ.

Neopaganism however was created by people like Crowely who did drugs and made up the religion entirely. What basis for Neopaganism can you give? How can you justify it? It isn’t even connected with pre-christian british paganism or roman paganism - it is on par with kwaanza (there are “ancient traditions” to back it up )

Catholig

No, the christians followed the mandate of Christ, who was the son of god, I can also claim I’m the son of god, we all can

and worked miracles So did Pagans

**they were taught by the diciples (i.e. students) of Jesus Christ.
** I know what diciples are

**Neopaganism however was created by people like Crowely who did drugs and made up the religion entirely ** Well good for them, I don’t do drugs or make up a religion, my beilfes are basic on druids

** What basis for Neopaganism can you give? How can you justify it? It isn’t even connected with pre-christian british paganism or roman paganism ** I can’t justify my belifes no more than you can…But I still don’t say that my relgion is right and yours isn’t.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

Whats Truth? Truth is Christ, there is no Truth without Christ.

Therefore He is the only one,

making the rest false christs because they are not Truth.

 

[reborn_pagan]

Whats Truth? Truth is Christ, there is no Truth without Christ.

Therefore He is the only one,

making the rest false christs because they are not Truth.

…Your post is a simple case of “faith not fact” you used christ who is part of the Bible to answer my question, not what I was looking for.

 

[Montalban]

Okay this I have been going from site to site asking and have not gotten a single answer, this challange isn’t anything bad, its just a question

can you prove…without using the Bible, that paganism and anyother relgion is wrong?

blessed be,
cody

It’s illogical.

Person A says “I believe Jupiter is the supreme god.”
Person B says “I believe Odin is the supreme god.”

But both (going from what pagans say here) claim that they ‘respect’ other pagan beliefs.

How can they both be right?

 

[kellie]

…Your post is a simple case of “faith not fact” you used christ who is part of the Bible to answer my question, not what I was looking for.

No

Christ is not just part of the Bible, as if He is some fairy tale myth.

Christ was a real human.

You asked how we can prove other faiths are wrong without the Bible, and we have.

By telling you that Jesus, a real live person here on earth, performed miracles, and preached about God. His death and resurrection, eyewitnessed by His disciples, and passed down through the centuries orally is proof.

The Bible is written accounts of it all to complement the oral teachings.

Written and oral go hand in hand.

 

[reborn_pagan]

It’s illogical.

Person A says “I believe Jupiter is the supreme god.”
Person B says “I believe Odin is the supreme god.”

But both (going from what pagans say here) claim that they ‘respect’ other pagan beliefs.

How can they both be right?

Now this isn’t every Pagan idea of what happens but I bealive you get what you ask for, If your a christian and you want to go to heaven, thats where you end up at if you uphold the laws to your religion.

Me, I bealive in re-encarnation, soo you can be up in the clouds and I’ll be back here

 

[kellie]

Now this isn’t every Pagan idea of what happens but I bealive you get what you ask for, If your a christian and you want to go to heaven, thats where you end up at if you uphold the laws to your religion.

Me, I bealive in re-encarnation, soo you can be up in the clouds and I’ll be back here

Just because you believe in something doesn’t mean it is going to happen.

 

[reborn_pagan]

Just because you believe in something doesn’t mean it is going to happen.

Same thing can be said for you

 

[reborn_pagan]

No

Christ is not just part of the Bible, as if He is some fairy tale myth.

Christ was a real human.

You asked how we can prove other faiths are wrong without the Bible, and we have.

By telling you that Jesus, a real live person here on earth, performed miracles, and preached about God. His death and resurrection, eyewitnessed by His disciples, and passed down through the centuries orally is proof.

The Bible is written accounts of it all to complement the oral teachings.

Written and oral go hand in hand.

** Christ is not just part of the Bible, as if He is some fairy tale myth.

Christ was a real human. ** Is there physical evidence to prove that statment? and if so where?
** You asked how we can prove other faiths are wrong without the Bible, and we have.

By telling you that Jesus, a real live person here on earth, performed miracles, and preached about God. His death and resurrection, eyewitnessed by His disciples, and passed down through the centuries orally is proof.

The Bible is written accounts of it all to complement the oral teachings.

Written and oral go hand in hand ** I could spit out something right now about a made up relgion with the flying pasta monster. It is still to me and many others just a very very popular belief

 

[Montalban]

Now this isn’t every Pagan idea of what happens but I be you get what you ask for, If your a Christian and you want to go to heaven, that’s where you end up at if you uphold the laws to your religion.

Me, I believe in re-incarnation, so you can be up in the clouds and I’ll be back here

But my Christian God doesn’t say that at all. He’s making an exclusive statement “There is no God but me”

It’s irreconcilable to have separate systems, where some are claiming exclusivity.

 

[Montalban]

Same thing can be said for you

Indeed, so how does that help you?

You said that what we believe in happens, and what you believe in happens, and now you’re arguing against that by saying that sometimes it doesn’t!

Paganism is full of illogical statements of belief

 

[kellie]

** Christ is not just part of the Bible, as if He is some fairy tale myth.**

**Christ was a real human. **Is there physical evidence to prove that statment? and if so where?
You asked how we can prove other faiths are wrong without the Bible, and we have.

By telling you that Jesus, a real live person here on earth, performed miracles, and preached about God. His death and resurrection, eyewitnessed by His disciples, and passed down through the centuries orally is proof.

The Bible is written accounts of it all to complement the oral teachings.

**Written and oral go hand in hand **I could spit out something right now about a made up relgion with the flying pasta monster. It is still to me and many others just a very very popular belief

How do you know about your great-great-grandparents?

You have never seen them, yet you know they existed.

How??

As their lives have been passed down to you through their sons, their grandsons, to you.

Same as Jesus. There were people on this earth who knew Him, and passed it down through the centuries.

 

[ChristIsTheWay]

I can also claim I’m the son of god, we all can

You would have to provide some kind of proof that you are. Jesus performed miracles and rose from the dead.

So did Pagans

People witnessed the miracles of Jesus and they were witnesses to His triumph over death. Many died proclaiming this as the truth. Can your pagans make the same claims? Can you?

Well good for them, I don’t do drugs or make up a religion, my beilfes are basic on druids

How accurate is your information on the ancient druids? From my understanding, you have to reconstruct their beliefs and practices. The reliable sources for this are limited.

I can’t justify my belifes no more than you can…But I still don’t say that my relgion is right and yours isn’t.

Why not? Don’t you really believe in your faith?

 

[reborn_pagan]

But my Christian God doesn’t say that at all. He’s making an exclusive statement "There is no God but me"
It’s irreconcilable to have separate systems, where some are claiming exclusivity.

deep sigh It feels good to be back.
But my Christian God doesn’t say that at all. He’s making an exclusive statement "There is no God but me" no more than saying " there is no other cody but me"

It’s irreconcilable to have separate systems, where some are claiming exclusivity Please don’t get me started on serprate systems…there are over 300 sects of christianity all saying “we are the true ones”

 

[Catholig]

No, the christians followed the mandate of Christ, who was the son of god, I can also claim I’m the son of god, we all can

Yes, but can you get people to follow you? Can you personally work miracles?

and worked miracles So did Pagans

Conceded. Certain pagan sects (note: not Neopagans) did have miracles, which were granted by God. These miracles were granted only so far as they were in accordance with the will of the true god, however, and aren’t proof of paganism as St. Francis de Sales states, quoting St. Augustine.

“In the same manner were some wonders done amongst the Pagans, says S. Augustine, not in proof of Paganism, but of innocence, virginity, fidelity, which, wherever they are, are loved and valued by God who is the author thereof. Further, these wonders are done but rarely, and from them no conclusion can be drawn the clouds sometimes give forth light, but it is only the sun which has for its mark and property the giving of light.”

**they were taught by the diciples (i.e. students) of Jesus Christ.
** I know what diciples are

**Neopaganism however was created by people like Crowely who did drugs and made up the religion entirely ** Well good for them, I don’t do drugs or make up a religion, my beilfes are basic on druids

How are your beliefs from the druids? What evidence do you have of them, and how do you know them so much better than the archaeologists? Really, I can show you apostolic sucession, but your religion, only points back to people like Crowely and unsubstantiated claims of “ancient traditions”. How old is your holy book? The bible can be traced back much further I’m sure.

** What basis for Neopaganism can you give? How can you justify it? It isn’t even connected with pre-christian british paganism or roman paganism ** I can’t justify my belifes no more than you can…But I still don’t say that my relgion is right and yours isn’t.

I just justified my beliefs, you haven’t. I showed apostolic sucession, miracles, age. Yours is new, and unfounded.

Catholig

 

[reborn_pagan]

How do you know about your great-great-grandparents?

You have never seen them, yet you know they existed.

How??

As their lives have been passed down to you through their sons, their grandsons, to you.

Same as Jesus. There were people on this earth who knew Him, and passed it down through the centuries.

Facts. Birth records, Death certifacets, Even grave stones and Pictures of them. so please I’m asking you FACTS not FAITH

 

[Montalban]

deep sigh It feels good to be back.
But my Christian God doesn’t say that at all. He’s making an exclusive statement "There is no God but me" no more than saying " there is no other cody but me"

It wouldn’t matter. You have a God who tells one group of people he’s the only God. Then goes and tells you that there’s other gods.

It’s irreconcilable to have separate systems, where some are claiming exclusivity Please don’t get me started on serprate systems…there are over 300 sects of christianity all saying “we are the true ones”

How does that help your claim for the truth?

In fact your very argument that there is no religious truth but yours is a paradox

 

[ChristIsTheWay]

Reborn_pagan: Is there physical evidence to prove that statment? and if so where?

He has risen and His tomb is empty. There is no doubt that His tomb became empty. We must ask how. The Apostles claimed what I claim. Most of them went to their deaths claiming it. The ancient opponents of Christianity even knew the tomb was empty; they made up excuses as to why this was so. But their excuses do not explain why the Apostles and so many others would die for a belief they made up.

 

[Catholig]

Facts. Birth records, Death certifacets, Even grave stones and Pictures of them. so please I’m asking you FACTS not FAITH

It’s historical fact that Jesus lived. That much is certain, and while I haven’t read the account, I think it does talk about what he did. (It was a roman who documented it, I think Gaius was his first name, however I will have to research it.)

In any case, I’m not sure what facts you are looking for. If I were to provide another written source talking about Jesus’ miracles - would you believe? Probably not. Your definition of fact I fear, I that you have to see for yourself. No account of Jesus’ life would be enough to make you believe on its own.

Catholig