A Christian Woman Marry A Muslim Man?

[Linda_Marie]

In Saudi Arabia women just don’t drive. It’s a cultural thing, but yet many of the women (and men) of that country are pushing to change that.

I lived in Saudi Arabia for 20 years. If you want to dismiss this as a ‘cultural thing’, you might want to take a closer look at it and research that culture because it is thoroughly Islamic. Their culture derives from Islam. Every aspect of their lives is governed by Islam. You cannot divorce Saudi culture from Islam. They are one and the same. The Arabian peninsula has been Muslim longer than any other place on earth. Everything un-Islamic has been deliberately destroyed, from artwork to customs for the last 1400 years.

If a Catholic woman married a Muslim man, then she would have the right to freely practice her religion, and she would have the right to a divorce. But Islamically she would not be able to inherit from him.

It is rather naive to think that a Muslim man would allow his wife to practice her faith. If she goes to his country, she is locked up in a harem and can only leave if he accompanies her. If he does not choose to go, she must stay home so how can she practice her faith, if there is even a church she can attend? Only if she lives in a non-Islamic culture can she continue to practice her faith and even then, it is problematical, right or no right.

If he wants to divorce her, all he has to do is say 3 times in public, “I divorce thee, I divorce thee, I divorce thee.” and it is done and she goes back to her parents with her dowry, if he hasn’t spent it all, but leaving her children. Nor does he need any grounds to do so. If she has an argument with him, he can divorce her in anger and there is nothing she can do about it. If she didn’t want the divorce - tough.

If she wants to divorce him in Islam, she must find legal grounds to do so, such as adultery which must be proven by four witnesses of good character. Grounds not admissible would be domestic violence. He can beat her as much as he likes and she cannot use it as grounds for a divorce. Then she must get a lawyer and petition the court. Since he controls all her money, how is she going to pay the lawyer? It is not as easy as just saying that she has the right. Most times, it is not granted because she cannot provide the required evidence. If she is successful, she is stigmatised as an undesirable woman because she went against her husband and her chances of a second marriage are slim and she will remain subject to her father or brothers for the rest of her life. Moreover, her children will stay with her now ex-husband since they believe that the man gives his wife the children ie - he plants his seed in her, she is no more than the ground in which it grows. If you are in the West and a Christian, you will fare better than the poor Muslim women in their countries but only because you are no longer subject to Islam. So the much vaunted right to a divorce for a woman in Islam is not really all that great.

Catholics do not accept divorce. When a Catholic goes into marriage, it is for life. If the marriage breaks down and ends in legal divorce, the Catholic may not marry again (assuming the marriage was valid). Since a Catholic must receive a dispensation to marry a Muslim, an annulment would not be available.

Muslims view marriage very differently from Christians. For Muslim men, a wife is for sex and children, not for a life companion in love. There is not the same concept of loving one’s wife, in Islam. Since marriages are arranged, they don’t even see each other until their wedding night, much less meet and fall in love. Love has very little to do with Muslim marriage and wives can always be replaced, usually with younger models.

IMO, inter-faith marriages between Muslims and Christians is a very chancy thing and to be avoided.

 

[Eden]

So far I’ve learned that if a Christian woman married a Muslim, her children would be raised as Muslim and she would have no inheritance rights if/when her husband dies.

(Also, if she lives in Saudi Arabia, as of now, she would not be allowed to drive a car.)

Anything else?

And how does a Christian woman practice her faith in Saudi Arabia when there aren’t any churches? And when Bibles and Christian religious articles are confiscated at the airports?

 

[PaulDupre]

Do rats really smell?

Peace

Yes, they do.

 

[ZuzuBailey]

So far I’ve learned that if a Christian woman married a Muslim, her children would be raised as Muslim and she would have no inheritance rights if/when her husband dies.

(Also, if she lives in Saudi Arabia, as of now, she would not be allowed to drive a car.)

Anything else?

YES!
She has no rights to the children,
If she divorces him it is likely she will never see them again,

and

if the husband gets tired of her or thinks she is getting to old it just take seconds to divorce her ( no courts needed) and take the kids away. and ship her back to America (or where ever you are from) where she will never see the kids again.

 

[ZuzuBailey]

That may not be true;

it depends on how Muhammad got his message and who it came from. So the “same God” is a "theory"and not a fact.

I agr

The CCC states somewhere that we do worship the same God as the Jews and Muslims (someone smarter than me will remember exactly where in the CCC). The way it is explained is that God has revealed Himself to Christians more than He has

on us all!

 

[Christy74]

Yes, they do.

LOL

 

[Christy74]

That may not be true;

it depends on how Muhammad got his message and who it came from. So the “same God” is a "theory"and not a fact.

Quote from the Catechism of the Catholic Church via the Vatican’s website: www.vatican.va

CCC
Paragraph 841

"The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”
(my bolding)

This is where I got the idea that the Muslims worship the same God as the Catholics. According to the Catholic Church it is fact, not a theory.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Which is why a Catholic should not consider marrying a Muslim. A Catholic is required to raise their children Catholic.

Doesn’t hurt my feelings.

Because they are not allowed to drive, by law.

You are fooling no one by saying women don’t drive in Saudi Arabia because of “culture”. They don’t drive because it’s illegal.

Of course it’s the law–Saudi law. Not Islamic law. It is a law based on culture–in that culture women don’t drive. They didn’t like women driving so they made it illegal.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Sister Amy,

What if the woman already had a daughter before she married the Muslim man?

Is there a difference if the child was 3 vs. 13 vs. 17 at the time of the parents marriage?

Actually, he should help support that daughter, but he isn’t technically (as far as I know) responsible for her religious choices. If the mother is Catholic I would certainly imagine that the daughter would be raised Catholic regardless of her age at the time of the marriage. I don’t know of any evidence to contradict that. I think it makes more sense for both mother and daughter to stay Catholic and to practice Catholicism without any interference from the Muslim husband.

 

[Eden]

Of course it’s the law–Saudi law. Not Islamic law. It is a law based on culture–in that culture women don’t drive. They didn’t like women driving so they made it illegal.

Strange coincidence how many countries that prevent women from driving happen to all be Islamic. I used to work with a Muslim Albanian woman and she complained about the fact that when she would return to Albania to visit family, she was not allowed to drive.

Muslim Cleric explains why women shouldn’t drive:

youtube.com/watch?v=p570nGshue0

 

[Eden]

Actually, he should help support that daughter, but he isn’t technically (as far as I know) responsible for her religious choices. If the mother is Catholic I would certainly imagine that the daughter would be raised Catholic regardless of her age at the time of the marriage. I don’t know of any evidence to contradict that. I think it makes more sense for both mother and daughter to stay Catholic and to practice Catholicism without any interference from the Muslim husband.

And how would that be possible to practice the Catholic faith in countries like Saudi Arabia?

 

[ZuzuBailey]

That don’t make it true.

I am not goig to debate this as it has been debated in the past; JUST search it out.

Quote from the Catechism of the Catholic Church via the Vatican’s website: www.vatican.va

CCC
Paragraph 841

"The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”
(my bolding)

This is where I got the idea that the Muslims worship the same God as the Catholics. According to the Catholic Church it is fact, not a theory.

 

[Sister_Amy]

I lived in Saudi Arabia for 20 years. If you want to dismiss this as a ‘cultural thing’, you might want to take a closer look at it and research that culture because it is thoroughly Islamic. Their culture derives from Islam. Every aspect of their lives is governed by Islam. You cannot divorce Saudi culture from Islam. They are one and the same. The Arabian peninsula has been Muslim longer than any other place on earth. Everything un-Islamic has been deliberately destroyed, from artwork to customs for the last 1400 years.

It is well known among Muslim circles (Saudi and non-Saudi) that the country of Saudi Arabia, while deriving the vast majority of its legal system from Islam, does not do so fully. There are elements of pre-islamic ignorance prevalent in Saudi Arabia and other places. The Saudi culture is tied to Islam, absolutely. I will not dispute that. But there is nothing in Islam which prevents a woman from being able to drive. It is a cultural tradition unique to Saudi Arabia, and that is the only country where you will find this restriction in place. And with the exception of a few poorly misguided souls, you won’t find ANYONE who actually believes that the restriction is based on Islam. It’s cultural.

It is rather naive to think that a Muslim man would allow his wife to practice her faith. If she goes to his country, she is locked up in a harem and can only leave if he accompanies her. If he does not choose to go, she must stay home so how can she practice her faith, if there is even a church she can attend? Only if she lives in a non-Islamic culture can she continue to practice her faith and even then, it is problematical, right or no right.

If her husband moves her to a country without a church, then that would impact her ability to freely practice her faith, wouldn’t it? You’re merely perpetuating the standard stereotypes which are launched against Muslims. Or, the ones which were launched against Arabs maybe 10-20 years ago.

Personally, I wouldn’t advise a non-Muslim woman to marry a Muslim man. If he does not want to marry a Muslimah, then I think it shows a certain departure on his part from Islamic ideals. And if he has abandoned Islamic ideals then I seriously doubt that he would be a good husband or father, and would maintain the rights of his wife, especially as she is a different religion. By the way, I don’t mean this to slight any husbands and fathers on this board who aren’t Muslim–Catholic ideals and values are very parallel to Islamic ones. I’m referring to a person who does not fear God, and who is not determined to live righteously. So personally, I would suggest a Catholic woman who was sincere about practicing her faith to not marry a Muslim man. And if she did, then I would even more strongly discourage her from moving with him to another country. There are too many variables–yes, it can work, and I know exampels where it has worked. But overall, I think it’s a bad idea.

If he wants to divorce her, all he has to do is say 3 times in public, “I divorce thee, I divorce thee, I divorce thee.” and it is done and she goes back to her parents with her dowry, if he hasn’t spent it all, but leaving her children. Nor does he need any grounds to do so. If she has an argument with him, he can divorce her in anger and there is nothing she can do about it. If she didn’t want the divorce - tough.

If the marriage is under American law, then American law applies too, doesn’t it? Her husband is not allowed to spend her dowry anyway, and that triple divorce thing isn’t really allowed–a complicated subject I don’t care to explain.

If she wants to divorce him in Islam, she must find legal grounds to do so, such as adultery which must be proven by four witnesses of good character. Grounds not admissible would be domestic violence. He can beat her as much as he likes and she cannot use it as grounds for a divorce. Then she must get a lawyer and petition the court. Since he controls all her money, how is she going to pay the lawyer? It is not as easy as just saying that she has the right. Most times, it is not granted because she cannot provide the required evidence. If she is successful, she is stigmatised as an undesirable woman because she went against her husband and her chances of a second marriage are slim and she will remain subject to her father or brothers for the rest of her life. Moreover, her children will stay with her now ex-husband since they believe that the man gives his wife the children ie - he plants his seed in her, she is no more than the ground in which it grows. If you are in the West and a Christian, you will fare better than the poor Muslim women in their countries but only because you are no longer subject to Islam. So the much vaunted right to a divorce for a woman in Islam is not really all that great.

More of the same stereotypes, which are based on a very poor understanding of women’s rights and Shari’ah. In fact you’ve neglected the woman’s rights pretty much entirely. I’m personally rather offended at how you have described women–I wouldn’t tolerate that sort of language from a man, and I don’t know ANY Muslim man who thinks that way. Mothers are highly revered and respected in Islam.

Catholics do not accept divorce. When a Catholic goes into marriage, it is for life. If the marriage breaks down and ends in legal divorce, the Catholic may not marry again (assuming the marriage was valid). Since a Catholic must receive a dispensation to marry a Muslim, an annulment would not be available.

I’m not saying it’s a good idea, mind you. Just that it is allowed.

Muslims view marriage very differently from Christians. For Muslim men, a wife is for sex and children, not for a life companion in love. There is not the same concept of loving one’s wife, in Islam. Since marriages are arranged, they don’t even see each other until their wedding night, much less meet and fall in love. Love has very little to do with Muslim marriage and wives can always be replaced, usually with younger models.

This is of course complete nonsense. Marriages don’t have to be arranged. Muhammad (saaws) said that the best thing for two people in love was to get married. How could people fall in love before marriage…? Hm? In fact it is actually an essential right of both a husband and wife to be respectful and loving towards their spouse. It’s even in the Qur’an, how intimate and loving spouses are supposed to be. Not sure where you’re getting your information from.

IMO, inter-faith marriages between Muslims and Christians is a very chancy thing and to be avoided.

I wouldn’t recommend it either.

 

[Eden]

Quote from the video on :

“They want women to go out on the streets all made up like a harlot, with her face uncovered.”

Muslim Cleric explains why women shouldn’t drive:

youtube.com/watch?v=p570nGshue0

This is really sad. That’s a large leap to make from showing your face to being a harlot.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Strange coincidence how many countries that prevent women from driving happen to all be Islamic. I used to work with a Muslim Albanian woman and she complained about the fact that when she would return to Albania to visit family, she was not allowed to drive.

Muslim Cleric explains why women shouldn’t drive:

youtube.com/watch?v=p570nGshue0

Saudi Arabia is the only country which has this as law, that women can’t drive. I even heard that on the BBC this morning.

And I know you can find a few crazy clerics who justify it but I promise you, it’s not justified in Islam, which is what I said in the first place.

 

[Sister_Amy]

And how would that be possible to practice the Catholic faith in countries like Saudi Arabia?

Actually I meant to say in that post (perhaps I neglected it, which is my fault, sorry) that if she cannot practice her faith in that country, then it would not be fair for her husband to take her there. This is pretty serious. There aren’t Catholic churches in Saudi Arabia, a Catholic woman couldn’t go to mass, consult a priest, or in anyway engage in the rituals or sacraments which are a part of her faith, so in order for her husband to allow her to freely practice, he must not take her there. If he does, he is violating her rights.

 

[Eden]

Saudi Arabia is the only country which has this as law, that women can’t drive. I even heard that on the BBC this morning.

And I know you can find a few crazy clerics who justify it but I promise you, it’s not justified in Islam, which is what I said in the first place.

Well, I know for a fact that my co-worker from Albania who is Muslim said she was not allowed to drive in Albania. Given the fact that Albania is not entirely Muslim, it may be true that Saudi Arabia is the only nation with a nationwide ban on driving, but it is certainly not the only Islamic society that denies women this right. Were women allowed to drive under the Taliban rule in Afghanistan?

 

[Sister_Amy]

Quote from the video on :

“They want women to go out on the streets all made up like a harlot, with her face uncovered.”

Muslim Cleric explains why women shouldn’t drive:

youtube.com/watch?v=p570nGshue0

This is really sad. That’s a large leap to make from showing your face to being a harlot.

Indeed. Such “clerics” often make “large leaps” in such crazy rulings as this. I’ve heard them say if a woman works then she’ll be forced to be an adulterer. They go to extremes, and exaggerations–that alone should tell you that they aren’t telling the truth.

 

[Eden]

Indeed. Such “clerics” often make “large leaps” in such crazy rulings as this. I’ve heard them say if a woman works then she’ll be forced to be an adulterer, and if she learns english she’ll become a prostitute and other craziness. They go to extremes, and exaggerations–that alone should tell you that they aren’t telling the truth.

Then having clerics who lie says a lot about Islam itself.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Well, I know for a fact that my co-worker from Albania who is Muslim said she was not allowed to drive in Albania. Given the fact that Albania is not entirely Muslim, it may be true that Saudi Arabia is the only nation with a nationwide ban on driving, but it is certainly not the only Islamic society that denies women this right. Were women allowed to drive under the Taliban rule in Afghanistan?

Why are we still talking about this? I’m really sorry, but it is not an Islamic law that women can’t drive, regardless of how it is justified.

I don’t think enough people had cars under the Taliban for this even to have been an issue. You are talking about extreme cases, where Islamic law was and has been only selectively and partially applied.