A Concern About A British Airline Policy - For Chistians Only (Important)!!

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BryPGuy89:
Many peoplre in the Middle East live in villages and small cities, most don’t attend schools or universities
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that doesn’t really mean much. islamic scholarship isn’t restricted to having degrees from schools or universities. many of the top scholars of islam, from our times dating all the way back to the advent of islam, have learned the religion through traditional means; sitting at the feet of the learned men of the religion day-in and day-out. some of the most knowledgeable scholars of islam came from small towns and villages.
 
Dear Ortho,

You said:
We have discussed the veil and the cross/bible. I really have concern for neither, but find the various disputes over them interesting.

Saudis find Christianity boring and don’t care what Christians believe. The fact that the law allows only one religion does not mean the population finds Christianity interesting.

Are you a Saudi that you can conclude that? And if it is very boring, why can’t PEOPLE OUTSIDE THE SAUDIS who happen to go there cannot practise their religions? Sound as if the saudis are very selfish in my opinion. They want to practise their religion free everywhere (including in Vatican), but they refuse to give the same right to other religions. Don’t you think so?

Dear Bry,

You said:
I haven’t read the whole books, but have read some and have heard religious teachers of the Islam faith speak on these issues. I have come to the amount of information to comfortably say that, especially pertaining to Christians and Jews. As to me being Christian, that doesn’t prevent me from learning what I can and try to come to an understnding of other faiths.

I said that to remind you as a brother in OUR LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST (you agree, don’t you? Please answer this).
Here we have a lot of Islamic Experts like Gonzales, Joseph, and many others, so when you stated things about Islam, I am afraid what you think is not 100% right.

Neverland
 
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Neverland:
Dear Ortho,

You said:
We have discussed the veil and the cross/bible. I really have concern for neither, but find the various disputes over them interesting.

Saudis find Christianity boring and don’t care what Christians believe. The fact that the law allows only one religion does not mean the population finds Christianity interesting.

Are you a Saudi that you can conclude that? And if it is very boring, why can’t PEOPLE OUTSIDE THE SAUDIS who happen to go there cannot practise their religions? Sound as if the saudis are very selfish in my opinion. They want to practise their religion free everywhere (including in Vatican), but they refuse to give the same right to other religions. Don’t you think so?

Dear Bry,

You said:
I haven’t read the whole books, but have read some and have heard religious teachers of the Islam faith speak on these issues. I have come to the amount of information to comfortably say that, especially pertaining to Christians and Jews. As to me being Christian, that doesn’t prevent me from learning what I can and try to come to an understnding of other faiths.

I said that to remind you as a brother in OUR LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST (you agree, don’t you? Please answer this).
Here we have a lot of Islamic Experts like Gonzales, Joseph, and many others, so when you stated things about Islam, I am afraid what you think is not 100% right.

Neverland
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I lived and worked in Saudi for many years. The Saudis don’t care about Christianity. They don’t reject it, they simply don’t pay any attention to it. It’s boring.

Christian services are held all over the country every Friday. The restriction is on public services.

Are there really public Mislim services held in the Vatican? Are they held in St. Peter’s?

The Saudis are selfish. So are most American Christians.

You have been telling us a lot about Islam and Saudi Arabia. Are you Saudi? Muslim?
 
Anyone who wants to learn about Islam should ask Muslims. They will be happy to provide information.

Anyone who wants to learn about Christianity should ask Christians. They will be happy to provide information.
 
Dear Ortho,

You said
I lived and worked in Saudi for many years. The Saudis don’t care about Christianity. They don’t reject it, they simply don’t pay any attention to it. It’s boring.

Christian services are held all over the country every Friday. The restriction is on public services.

Are there really public Mislim services held in the Vatican? Are they held in St. Peter’s?

The Saudis are selfish. So are most American Christians.

You have been telling us a lot about Islam and Saudi Arabia. Are you Saudi? Muslim?

Do I have to be a moslem to see injustice and inhuman treatment? I could be an atheist and I still could see it.
Tell me, why American Christians are selfish when you, moslems, can give away pamflets of Islam freely on the street? But the same thing cannot be done in Saudi.
Christian Sevice every friday? Really? Why Friday? Is it because the government regulation?
I never heard that. Adventists do their service on Saturday, and other Christians on Sunday. That’s a new knowledge for me.
And I don’t care if you said Christianity is boring. What I care is that many people who love this boring religion (your term) are forbidden to practise their boring religion freely.
I am not saying here for Christians only. So are the Hindus, the Buddhists.

You also said:
Anyone who wants to learn about Islam should ask Muslims. They will be happy to provide information.

Anyone who wants to learn about Christianity should ask Christians. They will be happy to provide information.

When you want to be really religious you cannot ASK to anyone. Faith is your relationship with God. Learning about love and God is like eating apple. Do you want to ask someone to eat apple for you and tell you how it tastes? You must chew yourself if you want to know how it tastes. Religion and faith without struggling alone and thinking, are nothing. Many people content to ask traveller about Rome and think they have already know all about Rome. But the real Rome will come to you when you come there to feel it yourself. And it may not be the same, for you have your own perception and subjectivity.
Reading other people’s opinion is good, but it’s more important to think about it, ponder it, not eat it all without questioning. It’s fine if you read Ahmed Deedat or Harun Yahya, but in the end you must do your own research.
I say this to you because I know you are confused. Take care.

In Jesus Love

Neverland
 
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Neverland:
Dear Al Masetti,

While there are a lot of conversion from Islam to Christianity, they need OUR real support to stay strong, moreover when they are in Islamic countries. Their conversion can lead to their DEATH. Only strong figures are brave to do conversion bravely. I remember reading a convert to Christianity was stabbed to death in Islamic Country. But I am still searching the link to give to you all.
Denis Giron, Nonie Darwis, Ali Sina. Even they have to watch for their safety. And some of them LIVE IN WESTERN COUNTRIES. Can you imagine IF they lived in Islamic Countries?
We must go back to love and truth (although it’s hard, I am still a sinner).

In Jesus Love

In my church there are also converts from Islam, it is true that some of them are in danger . One of them had to go back to his country since my country ( France ) refused to grant him political asylum, although my whole church tried to help ; the three others are French citizens by birth ; one of them is studying to become a Protestant minister.
Moslems in France represent about 10% of the population ; there are conversions both ways, some French people ( of European origin ) convert to Islam, some even went to Iraq to commit suicide-bombings, one died in Afghanistan while fighting with the Talibans against the Americans and their allies, it is really worrying, some of them are more “fanatic” than those who were born in Islam.
The Protestant Arabs I know all go to various Evangelical churches, but once a month they meet in one of them ( in fact it’s mine ! ) to pray God and sing in Arabic and in Kabyle ( a minority language in Algeria ) ; I’ve already attended and they try to teach us some songs phonetically but it is very difficult …
Some convert to Catholicism too, they have the same problems with their families or their original countries …
They all need our prayers …
Islam is the second religion in France, I mention it so that you can take this into account if you want to pray for them or for my country more generally…
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Cockney Clive:
Well, that’s all very fine and all but, personally I would rather leave my crucifix of sentimental value (not religious, one notes) at home. Only, the religious police in Saudi bite - very hard. A good beating would be the least of it, believe me. That’s the reality.

Don’t go to Saudi at all is my advice to any practising Christians since one is not allowed to practice Christianity there so why would you want to go?

The Hijjab is not a ‘veil’ by the way but a head scarve - it covers the hair of a woman is all. France is bloody stupid to want to ban it. French political correctness gone absolutely barmy.
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It is banned only in State -run primary and secondary schools, not on the whole territory !!!
 
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r.gonzales:
actually, that is a mistaken notion. the word “hijâb” means veil, cover, curtain, barrier, and in islamic terminology it refers to the entire muslim woman’s islamic dress, not just the headscarf, which is called “khimâr”.
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but in France the word “hijjab” is ( probably in a mistaken way ) used to speak about a headscarf…
 
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discipleofJesus:
How are most American Christians selfish?
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I say most Christians are selfish because the bulk of their productive energies go towards taking care of themselves. Observation shows them to be very acquisitive. Once they have acquired something, they keep it for themselves.

Perhaps NeverLand will now tell us why he says Saudis are selfish?
 
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Neverland:
Dear Ortho,

You said
I lived and worked in Saudi for many years. The Saudis don’t care about Christianity. They don’t reject it, they simply don’t pay any attention to it. It’s boring.

Christian services are held all over the country every Friday. The restriction is on public services.

Are there really public Mislim services held in the Vatican? Are they held in St. Peter’s?

The Saudis are selfish. So are most American Christians.

You have been telling us a lot about Islam and Saudi Arabia. Are you Saudi? Muslim?

Do I have to be a moslem to see injustice and inhuman treatment? I could be an atheist and I still could see it.
Tell me, why American Christians are selfish when you, moslems, can give away pamflets of Islam freely on the street? But the same thing cannot be done in Saudi.
Christian Sevice every friday? Really? Why Friday? Is it because the government regulation?
I never heard that. Adventists do their service on Saturday, and other Christians on Sunday. That’s a new knowledge for me.
And I don’t care if you said Christianity is boring. What I care is that many people who love this boring religion (your term) are forbidden to practise their boring religion freely.
I am not saying here for Christians only. So are the Hindus, the Buddhists.

You also said:
Anyone who wants to learn about Islam should ask Muslims. They will be happy to provide information.

Anyone who wants to learn about Christianity should ask Christians. They will be happy to provide information.

When you want to be really religious you cannot ASK to anyone. Faith is your relationship with God. Learning about love and God is like eating apple. Do you want to ask someone to eat apple for you and tell you how it tastes? You must chew yourself if you want to know how it tastes. Religion and faith without struggling alone and thinking, are nothing. Many people content to ask traveller about Rome and think they have already know all about Rome. But the real Rome will come to you when you come there to feel it yourself. And it may not be the same, for you have your own perception and subjectivity.
Reading other people’s opinion is good, but it’s more important to think about it, ponder it, not eat it all without questioning. It’s fine if you read Ahmed Deedat or Harun Yahya, but in the end you must do your own research.
I say this to you because I know you are confused. Take care.

In Jesus Love

Neverland
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I agree one does not have to be a member of a group to observe and study the group. Regarding my observation that most Saudis find Christianity boring, you asked, “Are you a Saudi that you can conclude that?” I’m glad you see that one doesn’t have to be a Saudi.

Selfishness has nothing to do with giving away pamphlets.

Friday is the Islamic sabbath. Thursday and Friday are the weekend in Saudi. Saturday and Sunday are normal workdays. Catholic priests I talked to in Saudi said they have permission to shift Sunday obligations to Friday.

Government regulation has nothing to do with the times Christians hold services. Most have a Friday service. Some have additinal Wednesday evening services.

I didn’t say Christianity was boring. I said most Saudis find it boring.

I agree people should do their own research. Part of that research consists of asking people about their religion. If I want to learn about Christianity, I ask Christians. If I want to learn about Hinduism, I ask Hindus.
 
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BryPGuy89:
What I meant was that it is up to each individual to completely come up with their own understanding of the Quran…etc, in the sunni. There is nothing to say that extreme interpretations are mistaken or bluntly wrong.
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So, from our perspective, this interpretation would be along the lines of sola scriptura? Just asking. Thanks.
 
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jim1130:
So, from our perspective, this interpretation would be along the lines of sola scriptura? Just asking. Thanks.
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The sunni do rely on each person to create their oun understanding of the Qur’an.
 
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Ortho:
Why do you say that?
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Because that is what I have learned about the Islamic group. They don’t have a religious clergy and it is put on the individual to come to an understanding of the Qur’an. The sunni beleive that it is open for the person to understand, but the shi’ites have imam and alim for religious teaching and the country leader has the utmost religious authority under Allah… as long as he follows the common beleif of the Qur’an.
 
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BryPGuy89:
Because that is what I have learned about the Islamic group. They don’t have a religious clergy and it is put on the individual to come to an understanding of the Qur’an. The sunni beleive that it is open for the person to understand, but the shi’ites have imam and alim for religious teaching and the country leader has the utmost religious authority under Allah… as long as he follows the common beleif of the Qur’an.
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The Shi’ites have an official clergy with a table of organization. The Sunnis have imams, Islamic scholars, universities, schools, interpretations, etc. Al Azhar in Cairo is the seat of Sunni scholarship. The Sunnis have everything the Shi’ites have, just in a different organizational structure.

Sunnis have a council for each country called the Ulema. It corresponds to the country leader you describe.

There are many areas of human behavior which do not have a hierarchy of authority, yet they manage to teach interpretations of writing and events.

Islamic Studies is a very important department at any unversity in a Muslim nation. Thre would be no such departments if there was nothing to be taught.

A local mosque could easily provide information on this subject. You would learn far more from them than from this site.
 
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Ortho:
The Shi’ites have an official clergy with a table of organization. The Sunnis have imams, Islamic scholars, universities, schools, interpretations, etc. Al Azhar in Cairo is the seat of Sunni scholarship. The Sunnis have everything the Shi’ites have, just in a different organizational structure.

Sunnis have a council for each country called the Ulema. It corresponds to the country leader you describe.

There are many areas of human behavior which do not have a hierarchy of authority, yet they manage to teach interpretations of writing and events.

Islamic Studies is a very important department at any unversity in a Muslim nation. Thre would be no such departments if there was nothing to be taught.

A local mosque could easily provide information on this subject. You would learn far more from them than from this site.
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I just have come to the understanding in my research that the sunni’s have a more open minded view on the Qur’an and that the individual is more expected to make their own interpretation.
 
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BryPGuy89:
I just have come to the understanding in my research that the sunni’s have a more open minded view on the Qur’an and that the individual is more expected to make their own interpretation.
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That might be a good way of saying it. It is close to the Catholic position on the bible.
 
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BryPGuy89:
The sunni do rely on each person to create their oun understanding of the Qur’an.
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no they don’t.
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BryPGuy89:
They don’t have a religious clergy and it is put on the individual to come to an understanding of the Qur’an.
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that’s not true.
 
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