A contraception poll. Catholics only, please!

[bearer]

Well why else would there be a poll option on this forum? And why else would people make polls?? I don’t think I’m the only one here who likes posting polls. I like them, they are fun.

Polls are use for asking about people’s lives and opinions. Opinions outside of the teaching of the Church are apostasy, and thus pointless.

You might as well have asked, “Are you a faithful Catholic, yes or no?”

 

[MartyrForJesus]

Not at all. I just think that if the majority of Catholics disagree with something, then the church ought to do a better job of explaining itself.

The Church’s teachings are not hard to find, it’s just getting people to actually look for them, or getting Catholics to properly teach them to other Catholics.

 

[MartyrForJesus]

I’ve been a pretty regular Church goer all my life, and I have to say I’ve never heard the priest talk about many moral issues (such as homosexuality, premarital sex, etc etc) during mass.

That proves my point.

 

[bearer]

I did not read the poll as condoning anything. There is nothing wrong with seeing where other forum members stand on issues. It might be helpful to know where evangelization efforts should be.

You have a great point there. However, the Church already knows that more and better evangelization is needed, hence its renewed efforts in the past decade. We’ve learned some heard lessons from the '60s, '70s, and '80s.

 

[BingoBoy]

Polls are use for asking about people’s lives and opinions. Opinions outside of the teaching of the Church are apostasy, and thus pointless.

You might as well have asked, “Are you a faithful Catholic, yes or no?”

Is there some type of “instruction manual” for poll usage on this forum? Am I using the poll option “incorrectly?”

 

[BingoBoy]

That proves my point.

Not really. It was a response to you saying this:

If a Catholic only attends Church once a year, for Christmas, do you really think he is likely going to know and follow all the teachings of the Church besides the basics?

I attend WAY more than once a year and I’ve never heard any of this talked about during mass, so I don’t think it has anything to do with people not attending mass enough.

 

[MartyrForJesus]

Is there some type of “instruction manual” for poll usage on this forum? Am I using the poll option “incorrectly?”

This type of poll offends faithful Catholics, because it in a way puts a message across that you have the liberty to pick and choose what you want to follow or not and still be a faithful Catholic, whether you meant it or not. That of course is not true.

 

[MartyrForJesus]

Not really. It was a response to you saying this:

I attend WAY more than once a year and I’ve never heard any of this talked about during mass.

Yes, I never said that the moral issues are talked about much in Church. It requires the Catholic to go deeper, to go and research, which Catholics who only attend Church once a year are hardly going to do.

 

[1ke]

Is there some type of “instruction manual” for poll usage on this forum? Am I using the poll option “incorrectly?”

Now, whether or not you are using the polls correctly is a matter of opinion. Maybe you should make a poll.

I apologize if you think I am jumping you for making the poll. It is not against forum rules. I did use “IMHO” when giving my opinion.

My opinion is that such polls only serve to encourage those who dissent. They aren’t helpful. And they certainly aren’t “fun”. I think they are divisive and they are really actually sad.

Discussion is good (except when it breaks down, which is frequently in this medium). But polls on things that are not matters of opinion, IN MY OPINION, are harmful.

 

[BingoBoy]

This type of poll offends faithful Catholics, because it in a way puts a message across that you have the liberty to pick and choose what you want to follow or not and still be a faithful Catholic, whether you meant it or not. That of course is not true.

It’s very bizarre to me that a poll asking people what they do somehow translates to “people have the liberty to pick and choose what they want to follow.”

 

[Bezant]

Such a poll is a waste of time.

Catholics are bound by the Church teachings which have the authority of God behind them.

Any Catholic who rejects the teaching on contraception puts themselves in a state of mortal sin and therefore cannot receive Communion.

Whether you like it or not, many of the responses in this thread reflect reality. The fact that the official position on contraception is non-debatable from the Church’s view, the fact that God is behind the Church, doesn’t change the fact while we’re here that many of us will disagree.

 

[MartyrForJesus]

It’s very bizarre to me that a poll asking people what they do somehow translates to “people have the liberty to pick and choose what they want to follow.”

I know you didn’t mean it, but that’s just what many find this poll implies.

 

[HeWhoMsntBeNamd]

The Church’s teachings are not hard to find, it’s just getting people to actually look for them, or getting Catholics to properly teach them to other Catholics.

AMEN! And merely telling people “these are the truths, accept them” is NOT proper teaching; it’s a cop-out.

In the end, I think what I’m ultimately doing here is crying out for somebody to please teach me, because I don’t understand, but am being told that I’m living a life of mortal sin. I can’t help but feel like most folks around here are just telling me to “shut up and color.” I have far too much God-given self-worth to be content with that.

 

[BingoBoy]

AMEN! And merely telling people “these are the truths, accept them” is NOT proper teaching; it’s a cop-out.

In the end, I think what I’m ultimately doing here is crying out for somebody to please teach me, because I don’t understand, but am being told that I’m living a life of mortal sin. I can’t help but feel like most folks around here are just telling me to “shut up and color.” I have far too much God-given self-worth to be content with that.

 

[1ke]

AMEN! And merely telling people “these are the truths, accept them” is NOT proper teaching; it’s a cop-out.

In the end, I think what I’m ultimately doing here is crying out for somebody to please teach me, because I don’t understand, but am being told that I’m living a life of mortal sin. I can’t help but feel like most folks around here are just telling me to “shut up and color.” I have far too much God-given self-worth to be content with that.

Perhaps you would like to start a thread and post your question and what it is you do don’t understand.

Forum rules indicate you should post one topic per thread.

And, I don’t think anyone has said you are in a state of mortal sin (which no one here could know anyway, they not being God).

 

[MartyrForJesus]

AMEN! And merely telling people “these are the truths, accept them” is NOT proper teaching; it’s a cop-out.

In the end, I think what I’m ultimately doing here is crying out for somebody to please teach me, because I don’t understand, but am being told that I’m living a life of mortal sin. I can’t help but feel like most folks around here are just telling me to “shut up and color.” I have far too much God-given self-worth to be content with that.

By all means, start a thread on a particular teaching, and we can have a wonderful discussion.

 

[bearer]

Is there some type of “instruction manual” for poll usage on this forum? Am I using the poll option “incorrectly?”

No, and as I wrote, you’re not using the poll incorrectly, just pointlessly.

 

[Bezant]

No, you don’t understand the case.Arguing about the morality of contraception is like arguing about the existence of gravity on earth. Gravity is a fact. Whether or not to raise taxes is a matter of opinion for a poll-- there are legitimate arguments on both sides of the issue. Belief in gravity is not a matter for a poll-- there are not legitimate arguments against the belief in gravity, only nonsensical ones. The moral evil of contraception is a truth.

Definitely not.

Gravity is a fact. It has been proven and it exists universally.

We don’t prove ethics. We come to agreement on them. There are universal ones (e.g., it is wrong to murder) but even then there’s disagreement over the details.

 

[Bezant]

The Church’s teachings are not hard to find, it’s just getting people to actually look for them, or getting Catholics to properly teach them to other Catholics.

Then why do reasonably well-educated Catholics disagree anyway?

 

[chipeto]

Definitely not.

Gravity is a fact. It has been proven and it exists universally.

You can’t prove ethics as a fact; there are universal ones (e.g., it is wrong to murder) but even then there’s disagreement over the details.

I would be careful with that word ‘proof’. There is always a point at which virtually anything can be denied.

Thus, for instance, we believe by faith in the existence of other people.
…
Some hold the undemonstrable dogma of the existence of God; some the equally undemonstrable dogma of the existence of the man next door.

G.K. Chesterton

1ke makes the point that, given Catholic assumptions (and no one can reason at all without some starting assumption), the Church has the authority to pronounce on these matters. This is correct. Also, the fact that people disagree on questions of morals is not evidence that there aren’t definite answers.