A decent talk

[ralphinal]

I’m not refusing to believe anything bad in Islam. I want to see a debate that has nothing to do with politics and news. There was a 16 year old pregnant girl murdered in the city I live in last year. Tell me that’s not as bad as a gang bang and lashing.I don’t see Muslims mentioning the crimes in western countries. I just see them wanting to talk about religion. Isn’t this a religion forum?

Well, part of the issue is that in Islam, the two are connected. One poster on here has gone so far as to say that he prefers Shaira law to the US Constitution just because he is Muslim.

 

[lhagan]

lhagan,
Do you believe that 9/11 was an American plot to start the war? Do you feel that there is not a major radical fundimentalist branch of Islam that wants to destroy us?
What is your religion?

Yes.
Yes and I think it is influenced somewhere by the same people with the plot to start the war.
Unknown at the moment. Thought this site might help me figure that out.

 

[dparker]

I’m not refusing to believe anything bad in Islam. I want to see a debate that has nothing to do with politics and news. There was a 16 year old pregnant girl murdered in the city I live in last year. Tell me that’s not as bad as a gang bang and lashing.I don’t see Muslims mentioning the crimes in western countries. I just see them wanting to talk about religion. Isn’t this a religion forum?

You miss the point. The lashing and jail time was ordered by the judicial system of an Islamic country based on Sharia law for being in the same car with a male that is not a relative. All despite the fact that both of them were kidnapped and raped by a group of men.

This is the action of an Islamic judicial system basing it’s decisions on Sharia. Has nothing to do with a violent act perpetrated against a 16 year old in your city.

It can be argued that the kidnapping/raping group felt justified in their actions by the ‘illegal’ behavior of the two young people…but nobody here is arguing that. We are pointing out the horrid actions of an Islamic judicial system after the crime…not discussing the crime itself.

And since the Saudi courts are Islamic and claim to be enforcing Islamic Sharia law, it is a religious discussion.

 

[ralphinal]

Yes.
Yes and I think it is influenced somewhere by the same people with the plot to start the war.
Unknown at the moment. Thought this site might help me figure that out.

Ok.
I do not want to hijack this thread, but I would like to talk about all three things. Why do you feel this way about the first two questions?

 

[dparker]

"ralphinal:

l
lhagan,
Do you believe that 9/11 was an American plot to start the war? Do you feel that there is not a major radical fundimentalist branch of Islam that wants to destroy us?
What is your religion?

Yes.
Yes and I think it is influenced somewhere by the same people with the plot to start the war.
Unknown at the moment. Thought this site might help me figure that out.

So there we have it. 9/11 was an American plot. I suppose the Spanish and London attacks were plots too.

There goes any credibility you may have had.

 

[lhagan]

You miss the point. The lashing and jail time was ordered by the judicial system of an Islamic country based on Sharia law for being in the same car with a male that is not a relative. All despite the fact that both of them were kidnapped and raped by a group of men.

This is the action of an Islamic judicial system basing it’s decisions on Sharia. Has nothing to do with a violent act perpetrated against a 16 year old in your city.

It can be argued that the kidnapping/raping group felt justified in their actions by the ‘illegal’ behavior of the two young people…but nobody here is arguing that. We are pointing out the horrid actions of an Islamic judicial system after the crime…not discussing the crime itself.

And since the Saudi courts are Islamic and claim to be enforcing Islamic Sharia law, it is a religious discussion.

Skipping straight to the judicial system merely upsets them and runs them off. Yes, it looks bad but, you still can’t prove anything.

May be they truly feel the judicial system is against their beliefs…justice gets perverted. All judicial systems are as good as the people and western nations are mostly Christian. If there judicial system is relevant so is yours. We are talking about red and green apples not apples and oranges.

 

[pismopal]

I’m not refusing to believe anything bad in Islam. I want to see a debate that has nothing to do with politics and news. There was a 16 year old pregnant girl murdered in the city I live in last year. Tell me that’s not as bad as a gang bang and lashing.I don’t see Muslims mentioning the crimes in western countries. I just see them wanting to talk about religion. Isn’t this a religion forum?

If you want to discuss religion and it involves Islam you CANNOT avoid speaking about politics. Islam is political to the extent that Islamic law is the only valid law to a Muslim. This is why Islam is not compatible with a western style democratic government where people of different races and faiths are supposed to get along and pull together for a common good, that good being freedom.
There are no Islamic style governments that are acceptable to me.

 

[ralphinal]

Skipping straight to the judicial system merely upsets them and runs them off. Yes, it looks bad but, you still can’t prove anything.

May be they truly feel the judicial system is against their beliefs…justice gets perverted. All judicial systems are as good as the people and western nations are mostly Christian. If there judicial system is relevant so is yours. We are talking about red and green apples not apples and oranges.

I would agree that it can turn them off, but we discuss other things on the other threads.

The issue about the justice system is important because, and none of the Muslim world will deny this, they want everyone to become Muslim and adopt that law. We have the right to question if this is a perversion or if it is inherent in the system.

 

[lhagan]

Ok.
I do not want to hijack this thread, but I would like to talk about all three things. Why do you feel this way about the first two questions?

Lets see. The Bush and Bin Laden family have been friends for decades. Technology is way to advance to allow that big of a slip up. The government is too much of an anal control freak to not notice. The destruction of the of towers can only be explained by the laws of physics if there were explosives on each floor and they simply don’t have the resources for that. The picture they give for bin laden. (google an old picture and put side by side)

Does that cover it?

 

[ralphinal]

Lets see. The Bush and Bin Laden family have been friends for decades. Technology is way to advance to allow that big of a slip up. The government is too much of an anal control freak to not notice. The destruction of the of towers can only be explained by the laws of physics if there were explosives on each floor and they simply don’t have the resources for that. The picture they give for bin laden. (google an old picture and put side by side)

Does that cover it?

Ok. Let’s go backwards. Are you an expert on the structural physics of the towers or are you relying on another person or people’s info. Why, if the governement is such a huge controller, would they hook up with binLadin since the Bush link is so strong? Finally, does any of this mean that all Muslims are peaceful and there are no extremests except for those in cahoots with Bush?

 

[pismopal]

A Sunni Muslim once told me before Islam came about the country was very perverse with evil sickening sins. Burying alive of little girls because they “disgraced” the family and owning slaves etc.

It was barely even a century ago that the U.S still had slaves and many Christians believe the U.S. is a Christian nation,although the constitution contradicts that. But contradicting the constitution doesn’t discourage our government so I guess it shouldn’t discourage Christians.

But I was really just trying to entice a better definition for the Trinity. The definition they gave me doesn’t encourage a conversion.

Please! This is getting to be too much. Honor killings, much like the “evil sickening sins” you describe are part of Islamic culture today…right now…as I write and so is slavery. Historically, Muslim slave traders were the most important dynamic in slavery. While I am criticizing, the institution of slavery in this country 150 years ago was wrong and was abolished after a bloody civil war.
Your paragraph about the constitution-government and Christians did not make sense so I cannot address it.
If you want to understand the Trinity…you should first understand Christ and believe that He is who He said He was. If you don’t do that…the concept of Trinity is out of one’s reach IMHO. There is plenty of info on the Trinity in the Catechism of the Catholic Church and if you are a serious inquirer you would take the trouble. I suspect you are not a serious inquirer.

 

[lhagan]

Ok. Let’s go backwards. Are you an expert on the structural physics of the towers or are you relying on another person or people’s info. Why, if the governement is such a huge controller, would they hook up with binLadin since the Bush link is so strong? Finally, does any of this mean that all Muslims are peaceful and there are no extremests except for those in cahoots with Bush?

No it doesn’t but there are sects and i don’t see 90% of Islam being extremists.
Middle east contacts.
Yeah,don’t need to be though.

 

[Rocky]

No it doesn’t but there are sects and **i don’t see 90% of Islam being extremists. **
Middle east contacts.
Yeah,don’t need to be though.

So are you saying you can see 10% of Muslims being extremists? That would be quite a large figure!

 

[lhagan]

So are you saying you can see 10% of Muslims being extremists? That would be quite a large figure!

Yeah,but that can be taken two ways…10% could easily control a government.

 

[Rocky]

Yeah,but that can be taken two ways…10% could easily control a government.

Yes, 10% in middle eastern countries could possibly control a government. Does 10% of all Muslims include those in the US though?

 

[dparker]

Yeah,but that can be taken two ways…10% could easily control a government.

Well, since there are ~1.3 billion Muslims, that puts the radicals at about 130 million.

That’s a pretty significant threat.

 

[Steadfast]

Islam is a Christian heresy.

 

[lhagan]

Islam is a Christian heresy.

Mirror?

 

[lhagan]

Well, since there are ~1.3 billion Muslims, that puts the radicals at about 130 million.

That’s a pretty significant threat.

Yes, we need more information.
I think they are all under one or a few of the sects under Shiites,though.
The entire 10% sounds crazy but, Sufi’s sound harmless.
Apparently, the Shiite was a political movement.
That explains some of the Sunni’s reluctance to talk about those issues but, not all of it.

 

[dparker]

Yes, we need more information.
I think they are all under one or a few of the sects under Shiites,though.
The entire 10% sounds crazy but, Sufi’s sound harmless.
Apparently, the Shiite was a political movement.
That explains some of the Sunni’s reluctance to talk about those issues but, not all of it.

Isn’t Bin Laden Sunni?