A decent talk

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qui_est_ce said:
and they still do. I just read about a woman who was whipped and imprisoned for being in a car with a non-related male. She had been gang-raped.

Catholic nuns in St. Louis taught slaves on boats in the Missippi, because it was illegal to educate them.
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You read that in united states or england media, I read that as well. Nothing in the united states or england media is accurate of the middle east. The government(s) only lets in negative news from the middle east and it perverts that.

Like i was telling the original posted of “Islam has no concept of humility” the Bush-Bin Laden duo have people finding young troubled Arab boys and miss guide them for their agenda. Everything concerning the middle east in the media is reverse psychology and propaganda.
 
lhagan said:
You read that in united states or england media, I read that as well. Nothing in the united states or england media is accurate of the middle east. The government(s) only lets in negative news from the middle east and it perverts that.

Like i was telling the original posted of “Islam has no concept of humility” the Bush-Bin Laden duo have people finding young troubled Arab boys and miss guide them for their agenda. Everything concerning the middle east in the media is reverse psychology and propaganda.
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Are you saying that this kind of stuff isn’t happening? Are you saying there is no slavery in Sudan or Saudi Arabia? Are you saying that all of the human rights violations that we see from these nations are made up? That groups like Amnisty International and the UN are lying to us?

I can accept that this is not a reflection of what Islam is supposed to be. I cannot accept that this is not happening far more than you want to admit.
 
lhagan said:
God would not have given you a Trinity you could not break down and fully understand each side.

Godhead sounds sick.
Spirit made flesh defines every human being. Unless you don’t have a spirit?
Seeing as how God made us in his image God must be a pure spirit.
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Oh, I see. You are “pure spirit?” Then?
 
pismopal said:
The form of G-d would seem to me to be less important than what G-d wants for us in our lives…to murder and torture “non believers” is not my idea of G-d’s desire for us. Please do enlighten me!😦
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Amen, Amen, Amen.
 
ralphinal said:
Are you saying that this kind of stuff isn’t happening? Are you saying there is no slavery in Sudan or Saudi Arabia? Are you saying that all of the human rights violations that we see from these nations are made up? That groups like Amnisty International and the UN are lying to us?

I can accept that this is not a reflection of what Islam is supposed to be. I cannot accept that this is not happening far more than you want to admit.
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This is the 21 century the last Nation to have slavery was the united states. How many rapes you think go on in western nations? Date rape drug? How many false imprisonments you hear about? UN? our western nations are installing cameras over our heads!!! You think they might wanna back the middle east look worse to keep you from resisting? Can we say YESSS! Wake up is all I gotta say. The evil covers the globe. I’d be more concerned with the evil brewing around me before I wake and find myself in worse unjust and human rights violations.
 
lhagan said:
This is the 21 century the last Nation to have slavery was the united states. How many rapes you think go on in western nations? Date rape drug? How many false imprisonments you hear about? UN? our western nations are installing cameras over our heads!!! You think they might wanna back the middle east look worse to keep you from resisting? Can we say YESSS! Wake up is all I gotta say. The evil covers the globe. I’d be more concerned with the evil brewing around me before I wake and find myself in worse unjust and human rights violations.
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Tu quo que. Apples & oranges. Cheap polemic. Blah-blah-blah.

Exceptionally lame.
 
lhagan said:
This is the 21 century the last Nation to have slavery was the united states. How many rapes you think go on in western nations? Date rape drug? How many false imprisonments you hear about? UN? our western nations are installing cameras over our heads!!! You think they might wanna back the middle east look worse to keep you from resisting? Can we say YESSS! Wake up is all I gotta say. The evil covers the globe. I’d be more concerned with the evil brewing around me before I wake and find myself in worse unjust and human rights violations.
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Oh yes evil is all around. No doubt about that. But, and please understand, as long as ONE Christian is persecuted for their faith, I will shout out about it. As long as ONE person is abused in the name of some “religious laws” I will complain. Personally, I hope the opression comes here. I really do. I do not deny that there are issues here in the West, but you WAY off base if you think life is all sweet nectar in Muslim lands. I am not about to speak about the common Muslim here, but the governments of these nations are EVIL. They oppress, rule by fear, are violent, sexist, mysoginistic, backwards, and all around deserving of overthrow. Get a grip on things, please. Do you live in these lands? If not, why not? As we say in Alabama, I was born at night, but not last night.

I cannot believe that I am about to agree with Arbito, but I do on this.
 
I’ve been sitting on the sidelines for awhile and this is one crazy conversation. It started out nicely but then when the whole “kuffar” comment popped up i knew it was the end. Thanks to all the others who responded to Necro’s blatant hatred so charitably. Name calling as vile as that word has no place in any discourse let alone in one trying to defend your religion.

The most important point outsiders should take from this in judging Islam is the fact he would like Sharia law rather than our law.
 
ralphinal said:
Oh yes evil is all around. No doubt about that. But, and please understand, as long as ONE Christian is persecuted for their faith, I will shout out about it. As long as ONE person is abused in the name of some “religious laws” I will complain. Personally, I hope the opression comes here. I really do. I do not deny that there are issues here in the West, but you WAY off base if you think life is all sweet nectar in Muslim lands. I am not about to speak about the common Muslim here, but the governments of these nations are EVIL. They oppress, rule by fear, are violent, sexist, mysoginistic, backwards, and all around deserving of overthrow. Get a grip on things, please. Do you live in these lands? If not, why not? As
we say in Alabama, I was born at night, but not last night.

I cannot believe that I am about to agree with Arbito, but I do on this.
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I wasn’t saying it was all sweet nectar. I was saying all you hear from the middle east in media is negative. Never any good thats why you think it is oh so bad. Also, saying take the blinders off when you look at your own nations.

Do some research and you’ll see the majority doesn’t support all the things that causes your prejudice…they acknowledge problems same as you.
arabnews.com/
onlinenewspapers.com/saudi.htm
abyznewslinks.com/neara.htm
english.aljazeera.net/English/

I know this next one is a stretch trying to get conservatives to take a look at but, I gotta try to loosen the blinders…
informationliberation.com/
 
lhagan said:
I wasn’t saying it was all sweet nectar. I was saying all you hear from the middle east in media is negative. Never any good thats why you think it is oh so bad. Also, saying take the blinders off when you look at your own nations.

Do some research and you’ll see the majority doesn’t support all the things that causes your prejudice…they acknowledge problems same as you.
arabnews.com/
onlinenewspapers.com/saudi.htm
abyznewslinks.com/neara.htm
english.aljazeera.net/English/

I know this next one is a stretch trying to get conservatives to take a look at but, I gotta try to loosen the blinders…
informationliberation.com/
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I could not get the last one to load. Do you have another link?

Anyway, I have had this discussion with others in this forum. If a majority of Muslims disagree with this kind of stuff, why does it continue? Rise up and take back your country. Rise up and take back your faith. Put in moderate laws. Let women drive. Let women vote. Quit persicuting those who disagree with your faith. Force the government to reflect what you claim to be Islam.
 
ralphinal said:
I could not get the last one to load. Do you have another link?

Anyway, I have had this discussion with others in this forum. If a majority of Muslims disagree with this kind of stuff, why does it continue? Rise up and take back your country. Rise up and take back your faith. Put in moderate laws. Let women drive. Let women vote. Quit persicuting those who disagree with your faith. Force the government to reflect what you claim to be Islam.
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The majority of the united states doesn’t approve of Bush. WHY DON’T WE RISE UP AND TAKE BACK OUR FAITH!?!?!?!?
 
lhagan said:
The majority of the united states doesn’t approve of Bush. WHY DON’T WE RISE UP AND TAKE BACK OUR FAITH!?!?!?!?
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Well, funny thing about the US government, we swap out leaders every few years. Another funny thing about it, our government is not tied directly to a religious legal code spelled out in the 10th century. I do not say, “Bush is not what true Catholicism is or Christianity is.” Muslims tell me that it is a religion of peace, then allow the governements to be violent as anything on earth. Perhaps I am missing something. Does Islam teach that you must never question your government?
 
ralphinal said:
Well, funny thing about the US government, we swap out leaders every few years. Another funny thing about it, our government is not tied directly to a religious legal code spelled out in the 10th century. I do not say, “Bush is not what true Catholicism is or Christianity is.” Muslims tell me that it is a religion of peace, then allow the governements to be violent as anything on earth. Perhaps I am missing something. Does Islam teach that you must never question your government?
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Why don’t we question our government? Why aren’t we all covering the streets like locust protesting these useless,meaningless deaths and major waste of tax dollars? Perhaps I am the one missing something. Does the true Christian support all this deaths?
 
lhagan said:
Why don’t we question our government? Why aren’t we all covering the streets like locust protesting these useless,meaningless deaths and major waste of tax dollars? Perhaps I am the one missing something. Does the true Christian support all this deaths?
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There is such a thing as Just War posited by St.Augustine. I do not support killing of people unless it is for Self-Defense, as outlined in the Just-war doctrine.

It is also incorrect to say that just because the majority disapprove of Bush, then they should rise up. He is unpopular because the Iraq war hasn’t been WON yet. It seems like a guagmire, that is why people are upset. If the war was over when bush said it was really over, you would see his approval rating in the majority, (at least that is my speculation.) Americans dont like losing.

On other issues, many people support him.
Abortion kills more people than Iraq does, Bush is very Pro-Life. You have your answer.
 
lhagan said:
Why don’t we question our government? Why aren’t we all covering the streets like locust protesting these useless,meaningless deaths and major waste of tax dollars? Perhaps I am the one missing something. Does the true Christian support all this deaths?
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Well, now we have a new topic, so to speak. Honestly, even though the polls show that Bush is unpopular, and the war is too, we as a country don;t care enough about it to do anything. Rightly or wrongly, it simply is umimportant. No, a true Christian would never support useless deaths.

Now, let me connect the dots. Can I say that Muslims don’t really care about these violent laws, either? Can I say that they could care less what happens to someone that believes differently? That non-related women are meaningless? I think that we are on to something. They may not like it, but it doesn;t bother them enough to get off the couch.
 
lhagan said:
I wasn’t saying it was all sweet nectar. I was saying all you hear from the middle east in media is negative. Never any good thats why you think it is oh so bad. Also, saying take the blinders off when you look at your own nations.

Do some research and you’ll see the majority doesn’t support all the things that causes your prejudice…they acknowledge problems same as you.
arabnews.com/
onlinenewspapers.com/saudi.htm
abyznewslinks.com/neara.htm
english.aljazeera.net/English/

I know this next one is a stretch trying to get conservatives to take a look at but, I gotta try to loosen the blinders…
informationliberation.com/
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What we have here is apparently your refusal to believe anything bad about Islam. The very first link above, has many stories on the rape victim who was sentenced to 200 lashes.

ArabNews Report

Search “200 lashes” on their search feature and there are many stories. This isn’t a creation of Fox News or some Western Government Conspiracy.

On this subject, I have been amazed as I’ve lurked over at Shiachat.com forums that the majority there believe that 9/11 was either a CIA/Jewish plot or Bush knew about it. (They actually had a poll) The ability of Muslims (even Western ones) to rationalize and deny is beyond belief.

and BTW…I’m not a ''conservative".
 
redmars3000 said:
There is such a thing as Just War posited by St.Augustine. I do not support killing of people unless it is for Self-Defense, as outlined in the Just-war doctrine.

It is also incorrect to say that just because the majority disapprove of Bush, then they should rise up. He is unpopular because the Iraq war hasn’t been WON yet. It seems like a guagmire, that is why people are upset. If the war was over when bush said it was really over, you would see his approval rating in the majority, (at least that is my speculation.) Americans dont like losing.

On other issues, many people support him.
Abortion kills more people than Iraq does, Bush is very Pro-Life. You have your answer./QUOTE

backspaced a little on the quote…
The point I was making is that the war wasn’t just and of self-defense. It was suppose to look that way. Conservative Christians believe a man that can’t give a speech better than a monkey over the laws of physics and call it a just war.
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lhagan,
Do you believe that 9/11 was an American plot to start the war? Do you feel that there is not a major radical fundimentalist branch of Islam that wants to destroy us?
What is your religion?
 
dparker said:
What we have here is apparently your refusal to believe anything bad about Islam. The very first link above, has many stories on the rape victim who was sentenced to 200 lashes.

ArabNews Report

Search “200 lashes” on their search feature and there are many stories. This isn’t a creation of Fox News or some Western Government Conspiracy.

On this subject, I have been amazed as I’ve lurked over at Shiachat.com forums that the majority there believe that 9/11 was either a CIA/Jewish plot or Bush knew about it. (They actually had a poll) The ability of Muslims (even Western ones) to rationalize and deny is beyond belief.

and BTW…I’m not a ''conservative".
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I’m not refusing to believe anything bad in Islam. I want to see a debate that has nothing to do with politics and news. There was a 16 year old pregnant girl murdered in the city I live in last year. Tell me that’s not as bad as a gang bang and lashing.I don’t see Muslims mentioning the crimes in western countries. I just see them wanting to talk about religion. Isn’t this a religion forum?
 
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