A decent talk

[Nicro]

O and one more thing about taqiyya it is only used for when you are being oppressed and having to lie about being Muslim in order not to be killed. But like I said that is wrong as you are going against your faith!!

And what do you all think of Sufis? You cant think they are evil and demented can you?

 

[Alisa]

Thanks for coming on, Nicro, and telling us a little more about Islam. I’m sorry certain individuals are threatened or defensive about it. We’re here to learn, not judge.
Alisa

 

[dparker]

Well Sharia law of course considering I am Muslim.

Out of this entire discussion…this one sentence reply pretty much sums it all up.

What many Christians and Westerners don’t understand is that Islam is as much a political system as it is a religion. There can never be a division between ‘church & state’ for a believing Muslim. Nicro surprisingly admits this. Most Muslim apologists dance around it.

Even if Muslim extremists were not violently engaged around the world, this simple admission is cause enough to resist Islam with all our efforts.

Assuming of course that a free pluralistic society is a value we want to defend.

 

[pismopal]

I am here to speak my mind and I do that without abusing anyone personally. I have seen and read enough about Islam to understand it and certainly we are “judges” of the merits of anything. Either that or we know not good from bad. Apologize for your own opinions…not mine please.

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

Well I was referring to the Prophets(pbuh) time so Muhammad.

Hadiths are the collected sayings and doings of the Prophet(pbuh).Well Islam is based on the individual, we dont have any Pope like figure that is supposed to tell us what is right and wrong. It is based solely on the individual to find out for himself.

Which is why there are so many offshoots of Islam and different religious qua political leaders who call for fatahs and the like against those who “offend” their concept of what allah or some imam considers “righteous”

Really now, Nicro, the Koran is a mistranslation of a Syrio-Aramaic lectionary. And now that the Cairo manuscript (the oldest one without the vowel marks * is being ‘retranslated’ we are seeing how POORLY translated the original one was.

Keep on translating Kristoph Luxemburg !

(His book is now available in English!)

Robert

Oh, why is it that ANY Koranic critic who doesn’t toe the party line is either a) thrown out a window from his office in Lebanon; b) told that his wife is divorced from him [in Egypt], c) found with his throat slashed in Damascus, or d) killed in Amsterdam ??

Inquiring minds want to know, Nicro.*

 

[Arbitro360]

Arbitro, I think your comments in this thread are nasty and bigoted. We’re trying to have “a decent talk” here, and you’re contributing nothing but venom. Let’s focus on our similarities as children of God rather than our differences. We need to remember we are all loved by God, Islamic people as well as Christians.
Alisa

Nothing I have written in my posts is in any way bigoted. I quote directly from the source and speak the truth about things without the multi-culti sugar-coating.

As for the “similarities” you seek, what difference does it make if the muslims claim a common “Abrahamic heritage” etc., or any other supposed “similarity” when they sanction terrorism, wife-beating, religiously-sanctioned mysogyny of the most horrific kind, currently practice (and refuse to renounce) human slavery, Dhimmitude and oppression of Christians, religious apartheid, Jew-Hatred and Jew-Killing and endless, implacable Jihad against all "infidels?

What possible “similarities” can white wash such utter moral depravity?

Pull your head out of the multi-culti sand and smell what you are shoveling.

 

[Arbitro360]

Hahaha you know when you take everything out of context it becomes bad. Ha nice job copying and pasting some guys little essay about how Islam is so scary.

9:123 O you who believe, fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you and let them find firmness in you. And know that Allah is with those who keep their duty.

This is referring to those who were fighting Muslims. Of course Muslims are going to fight them, if they dont they will be killed!!

(You missed quoted this one by the way) 47:4 So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, smite the necks; then, when you have overcome them, make them prisoners, and afterwards set them free as a favour or for ransom till the war lay down its burdens. That shall be so. And if Allah please, He would certainly exact retribution from them, but that He may try some of you by means of others. And those who are slain the way of Allah, He will never allow their deeds to perish.

Oh, that old “out of context” chestnut again. Yawn.

Please oh wise one, enlighten us as to what possible “context” can reverse the actual meaning of :

Qur’an 9:29 “Fight those who do not believe in Allah nor the Last Day, who do not forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth (Islam), (even if they are) of the People of the Book (Christians and Jews), until they pay the Jizyah tribute tax in submission, feeling themselves subdued and brought low.”

Hmmm?

Your own inconsistency betrays you. How on earth do you interpret “fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you and let them find firmness in you.” as fighting other muslims?

Pure sophistry.

 

[Arbitro360]

Nicro
I have been trying to figure out why you are looking for converts here. The message of Islam is not what Christians find attractive. We don’t want, or need, to conquer land in order to force conversions. I consider Sharia law to be a nightmare from which there is no awakening,yet you Muslims consider it desireable. You have been selling religious tolerance but Islam is not about tolerance and you certainly know that very well. Only the ignorant who believe what they are told might go for it but nobody else. If Islam is about tolerance, why are Muslims committing violence against their neighbors worldwide? I know there will be a backlash for speaking out because some people are so tolerant they even tolerate intolerance and that is the essence of Islam…intolerance of everything and everyone that disagrees with the theocracy. The truth cannot be sugarcoated. The “fruits” of Islam are out front for all to see and only the blind do not see them. You cannot sell this stuff anymore by using Taqiya or cherry picking texts from the Koran. I am not going to do the usual Muslim vs Christian ping pong with holy books…the proof is in the pudding…look at what people do, not what they say and one can have a clearer picture of the truth. Have a nice time " being decent" and selling your wares but if you want Sharia law…I’m curious why are you here?

Amen my Brother.

Matthew 7:14-16
14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Amen indeed.

 

[Arbitro360]

Converts? I dont care if you convert it is your own life you do with it what you will! I came here to talk about Islam since so many Christians are so afraid because they dont understand it. Terrorists cannot be called good workers of Islam, when Islam forbids suicide for ANY REASON!!! Islam says everyone should have their own choice in life. Quran 2:256 **There is no compulsion in religion: the right way is clear from error. ** And Taqiyya is nothing but brutal hypocrisy that works against Islam! Why use it? I never have and never will.

I think it’s you who doesn’t understand Islam. We who know our history and have read you Qu’ran and your Hadith understand it quite well.

If your interpretation is so widely accepted among your fellow mohammedan heathen, then why do they constantly and openly declare their intention to implement their Sharia and their Caliphate over the whole world through Jihad, whether the Kuffar like it or not?

Apparently you have neglected to study the concept and implementation of so-called “subrogation” in the (oxymoronic) “islamic jurisprudence.”

It’s amazing how muslim apologists always seem to expect everyone else to be as ignorant as they themselves are.

 

[Arbitro360]

O and one more thing about taqiyya it is only used for when you are being oppressed and having to lie about being Muslim in order not to be killed. But like I said that is wrong as you are going against your faith!!

And what do you all think of Sufis? You cant think they are evil and demented can you?

Certainly the Sufis are as evil and demented as any other sect of muslims.

The Ottoman Empire was heavily influenced by the Sufi sect and they were as bloodthirsty, treacherous, cruel, imperialistic and dementedly evil as any other sect of muslims.

 

[Arbitro360]

Thanks for coming on, Nicro, and telling us a little more about Islam. I’m sorry certain individuals are threatened or defensive about it. We’re here to learn, not judge.
Alisa

Well then open your mind and judge comments by the truth that is in them and by the wisdom that is in them and not by how offensive they are to your delicate sensibilities.

Pretty lies are still lies.

Charming liars are still liars.

Beware of wolves in sheep’s clothing.

Political correctness is nothing but lies and euphemisms that camouflage more lies. By wishing “not to offend” those who aim to deceive you, you give more power to their evil intentions.

Mohammed is a false prophet and an Anti-Christ. Shout it from the rooftops.

 

[Arbitro360]

Out of this entire discussion…this one sentence reply pretty much sums it all up.

What many Christians and Westerners don’t understand is that Islam is as much a political system as it is a religion. There can never be a division between ‘church & state’ for a believing Muslim. Nicro surprisingly admits this. Most Muslim apologists dance around it.

Even if Muslim extremists were not violently engaged around the world, this simple admission is cause enough to resist Islam with all our efforts.

Assuming of course that a free pluralistic society is a value we want to defend.

True-er words was never spoke.

As for me I will defend freedom, Western Civ and my Church 'til the last breath.

 

[Arbitro360]

Thanks for coming on, Nicro, and telling us a little more about Islam. I’m sorry certain individuals are threatened or defensive about it. We’re here to learn, not judge.
Alisa

Don’t apologize for me. Don’t EVER apologize for me. Apologize for yourself.

As for defensive, you are quite mistaken. I stopped being defensive long ago. I am on the OFFENSIVE and I will never stop until Islam is a religion practiced exclusively in hell.

 

[Nicro]

Islam forcing religion upon others? Need I bring up crusades the American conquest and the Vatican supporting Nazi rule?

 

[Alexius]

Don’t apologize for me. Don’t EVER apologize for me. Apologize for yourself.

As for defensive, you are quite mistaken. I stopped being defensive long ago. I am on the OFFENSIVE and I will never stop until Islam is a religion practiced exclusively in hell.

Good Luck! Please, it’s one thing to believe Islam is wrong, but it’s another thing to attack its adherents! Besides, you say you will defend freedom! Do you know that the West believes this freedom to include religion?

On a side note, I’m not so sure I would be so willing to defend the practices of the West. I don’t want Shar’ia (God-forbid), but these nations are not Christian countries. Not only are they leading many more to hell, but they also allow many repulsive practices. As Christians, we are told to not be of this world, yet capitalism seeks to do the opposite…Just my thoughts…

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius

 

[Arbitro360]

Islam forcing religion upon others? Need I bring up crusades the American conquest and the Vatican supporting Nazi rule?

All false comparisons, but you know this.

The Crusades after all were a reaction to CENTURIES of muslim barbarity against the Christians and Jews of the east.

The conquest of the Americas had no religious impetus, or for the few who did act on religious impulses, they were the fringe and certainly not the main impetus for the program of “Manifest Destiny.”

And as for the Vatican supporting the Nazis? Oh please. This is pure evil propaganda.

In any case there is a qualitative difference between all of the historical phenomena that you mention here and the universal call for Jihad against all non-muslims (Dar-alHarb) until the Judgement Day.

Excuse me, but there are no Catholic Crusaders blowing up muslim schoolchildren in Beslan, there are no Cowboys beheading muslims in Indonesia, there are no Catholic Cardinals waging racist Jihad in Sudan, Somalia, the Phillipines, Thailand, Chechnya, Kashmir, Kosovo, Israel, etc, etc.

Your comparisons are false and lame.

 

[Alexius]

Islam forcing religion upon others? Need I bring up crusades the American conquest and the Vatican supporting Nazi rule?

The Vatican did not support Nazism, however, there was certainly more they could have done. Remember, though, that Italy was under fascism aswell and many more would have died had the Vatican spoke out. Instead, many Catholics helped protect those they could, many risking their own lives. As for the Crusades, many were under the influence of personal gain as I’m sure some Muslims were aswell. There were surely wrongs done by both sides, so I don’t think either side has been perfect in their actions…

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius

 

[Arbitro360]

Good Luck! Please, it’s one thing to believe Islam is wrong, but it’s another thing to attack its adherents! Besides, you say you will defend freedom! Do you know that the West believes this freedom to include religion?

On a side note, I’m not so sure I would be so willing to defend the practices of the West. I don’t want Shar’ia (God-forbid), but these nations are not Christian countries. Not only are they leading many more to hell, but they also allow many repulsive practices. As Christians, we are told to not be of this world, yet capitalism seeks to do the opposite…Just my thoughts…

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius

All points well taken Alexius.

I believe that “Freedom of Religion” as it i currently understood has a curious blind spot where muslims are concerned, and the muslims exploit it quite cleverly.

Under current legal consensus, religious practices are tolerated up to a certain point where pernicious behaviours practiced under the color of religious practice are quite clearly out of bounds.

For instance, Voodoo Cultists would be quite prohibited from practicing human sacrifices, or even cruelty to animals under the guise of religion.

The Branch Davidians were violently suppressed for the mere possession of weapons.

Fundamentalist Mormons are regularly persecuted for practicing Polygamy.

Yet when muslims preach hatred and oppression of Christians and Jews, Jihad and mysogyny, and in fact conspire in, promote and actively participate in all manner of terrorism, they are not so much as rebuked!

I find it amazing that the legitimate power of the State is not used to suppress islam, when it is clearly pernicious at it’s very core.

Saudi Petrodollars will buy you a lot of political cover i guess.

 

[Nicro]

Here:alamoministries.com/content/english/Antichrist/nazigallery/photogallery.html

 

[Nicro]

I like how you say the Catholics who supported the Nazis werent really catholic but when a muslim says the same he is obviously lying! And American conquest wasnt religious!? That would explain why there are all the missions and pictures of natives being brutally killed for not accepting foreign religion.