A decent talk

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Nicro said:
I like how you say the Catholics who supported the Nazis werent really catholic but when a muslim says the same he is obviously lying! And American conquest wasnt religious!? That would explain why there are all the missions and pictures of natives being brutally killed for not accepting foreign religion.
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Please give us some examples of good things that are accomplished by adherants of Islam. I know that Muslims are on the cutting edge of science, technology, music and art. Also please list the responses by Islamic governments to help the victims of earthquakes, floods or hurricanes. Would you list in order, the most progressive, democratic Islamic governments?
After enumerating all the good things that are accomplished by Muslims worldwide please tell us which “missions and pictures of natives being brutally killed for not accepting foreign religion”. I assume you are referring to the marauding Christian bands known to be operating worldwide. Please do document these events for us so that we can have our eyes opened.
Nicro…every communication with a Muslim always goes in the same direction…it may take a short interval but it is always the same. One cannot criticize Muslim behavior, currently or historically without the tu quoqe response and twisted historical “facts” which can never be supported. You can find enough volumes of criticism of Christians to fill a library, a lot of it written by Christians but it is not within the Muslim mind to find fault with themselves let alone to correct the faults. You have fit into the mold perfectly as I was confident you would. A poet once wrote…and I paraphrase “…one of the gifts He didn’t give us is to see ourselves as others see us.” But if you want to see how many view the situation, pick up a copy of the old movie, " Invasion of The Body Snatchers". Have a nice day.
 
Nicro said:
I like how you say the Catholics who supported the Nazis werent really catholic but when a muslim says the same he is obviously lying! And American conquest wasnt religious!? That would explain why there are all the missions and pictures of natives being brutally killed for not accepting foreign religion.
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Let’s be clear on something, here. Catholics have one central authority located in the Vatican. To deny the authority of the Pope is to cease to be truly Catholic. To my knowledge, Muslims have no such central authority.

And I would like to know where you found these pictures of natives being cruelly killed. I have heard, however, of several missionaries brutally murdered by natives…:ehh:
 
Nicro said:
Here:alamoministries.com/content/english/Antichrist/nazigallery/photogallery.html
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This is a nice try, but clearly nothing more than mendacious propaganda.

If one knows history, one knows that relations between the Italian Fascists was, in a political sense, first antagonistic, then accommodationist after the Lateran Treaty of 1929 (after 70 years of hostilities).

As for the Spanish Fascists, their Catholicism was part and parcel of their identity, even to the extent that when Franco took power he outlawed anything that did not agree with catholic beliefs. At this time church and state of Spain were one body and it was the responsibility of both to enforce the change towards Fascist unity. All forms of education and censorship were directed by the church. Franco was given the power from the Vatican to elect church officials, a rare privilege given by the Vatican. (A similar dynamic is seen as related to the Croatian Ustashe Regime).

As for Nazi Germany, the Vatican had expectations (due to it’s friendly relations with the earlier Italian & Spanish Fascist regimes) of maintaining good diplomatic relations with the Nazi Regime. However, as the 1930’s wore on, and the Nazi obsession with Pagan-racist religion and ideology and Jew Hatred became clear, the Vatican was forced to tread a thin diplomatic line. The Vatican is at all times concerned with the safety of Catholics inside hostile countries, and was forced to do so again as the Nazis began to systematically persecute the Catholics. Going so far as to murder 146,000 Catholic Poles in Auschwitz alone, including: Saint Maximillian Kolbe, Saint Edith Stein, Prince Ludwig Swiatopelk-Czetwertynski, along with many hundreds of thousands of Catholic Clergy, nuns and laymen.

Your photographic “evidence” is a pure sham. In fact the Nazi’s tried to co-opt and prop up their own “Nazi Catholic Church” in order to control it (like in China today). As for Catholic Clergy giving the Fascist salute, this was obligatory for everyone.

Now, if we are going to play this game, How about explaining to us this little gem :

aval31.free.fr/anglais.htm

or this:

firstthings.com/article.php3?id_article=223

or this:

palestinefacts.org/pf_mandate_grand_mufti.php

or this:

emperors-clothes.com/bosnia/svijet.htm

much more relevant and factual. Wouldn’t you agree?

Therefore,
 
Here

Written by a friar from the 1500s.

And Frontpage is a some Christian right wing Islamophobes so that automatically puts them outside the realm of being believed.

Linkto survivors of residential native reformation schools.
 
Nicro said:
Well I was referring to the Prophets(pbuh) time so Muhammad.
Hadiths are the collected sayings and doings of the Prophet(pbuh).Well Islam is based on the individual, we dont have any Pope like figure that is supposed to tell us what is right and wrong. It is based solely on the individual to find out for himself.
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You seem to be running in circles. We started out acknowledging that there are parts of the quran which require some level of interpretation. After saying that when an individual has a question regarding the faith they can go to their sheik, you now acknowledge that there actually was no means left by Muhammad to fully communicate the truth of Islam. It is up to “the individual to find out for himself”. In my mind this means that you dont know what true Islam is any more than the next guy. I dont understand how anyone can claim to be proclaiming the truth of Islam the more I think of it. Am I missing something?
 
Hello Nicro assalamu alikum wa rahmatullah,🙂

Hell to the rest of the members who have written kindly to Nicro. 👍 I am a relatively new revert to Islam. Regarding Philthys question bascially your question seems to come down to authority.

To begin with a person has to understand that scholarly differences regarding the subsidiary elements of Islamic FIqh is to be respected and tolerated. On the other hand, issues which have achieved ijma(concensus) of the scholars are to be upheld and not debated. Hence, there may be room for polite investigation and debate, amongst the students of knowledge and scholars, on issues of scholastic difference, but there is little or no rom for debate on issues which have achieved ijma of the scholars, wheather among the Imams or the four madhabs (school of legal thought) or among the repected scholars of later periods in islamic history.

I hope this helps answer your question Philthy. 👍

Insha’allah you have a blessed day.
 
Trajik said:
Hello Nicro assalamu alikum wa rahmatullah,🙂

Hell to the rest of the members who have written kindly to Nicro. 👍 I am a relatively new revert to Islam. Regarding Philthys question bascially your question seems to come down to authority.

To begin with a person has to understand that scholarly differences regarding the subsidiary elements of Islamic FIqh is to be respected and tolerated. On the other hand, issues which have achieved ijma(concensus) of the scholars are to be upheld and not debated. Hence, there may be room for polite investigation and debate, amongst the students of knowledge and scholars, on issues of scholastic difference, but there is little or no rom for debate on issues which have achieved ijma of the scholars, wheather among the Imams or the four madhabs (school of legal thought) or among the repected scholars of later periods in islamic history.

I hope this helps answer your question Philthy. 👍

Insha’allah you have a blessed day.
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:eek: I assume you mean, “hello”?:eek:
 
LOL !!!😃

Oh by all means Hello… I apologize. At times my key board sticks. LOL. Great catch. Have a nice night Mr. Kirchoff.

Trajik
 
And I thought I was pushing the envelope of politeness. Anyway, Nicro, why, other than religious conviction, do you prefer Shaira to the US Constitution. What advantages froma legal standpoint does it provide?
 
ralphinal said:
And I thought I was pushing the envelope of politeness. Anyway, Nicro, why, other than religious conviction, do you prefer Shaira to the US Constitution. What advantages froma legal standpoint does it provide?
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Good question!
 
Well…hmmm. You see I have always been more on a socialist side so it can be hard to talk about this. It mainly just tries to stand on good moral grounds, but I dont follow through with everything, I know what I believe and thats basically how I feel.
 
Nicro said:
Well…hmmm. You see I have always been more on a socialist side so it can be hard to talk about this. It mainly just tries to stand on good moral grounds, but I dont follow through with everything, I know what I believe and thats basically how I feel.
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I wasn’t asking to trap you or start an argument on it. I just wanted to see where you stood. Perhaps someone could point us to a comparason between the two. Something unbiased and impartial.
 
I am not trying to either, just saying I do what I do and dont try to get to caught up in things.
 
Nicro said:
I am not trying to either, just saying I do what I do and dont try to get to caught up in things.
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I understand. I was hoping to get info without the anti-Islam spin so many sites put on things. Out of curiosity, are you a convert, revert or cradle Muslim?
 
bengal_fan said:
i think that islam is born out of judaism but is imperfect because it does not acknowledge Jesus’ claims about himself as the Messiah, the Son of God, and God incarnate.
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Hi

I think it is not correct to say that Islam was born out of Judaism. All revealed religions are sent by GodAllahYHWH, so their origin is the same, and hence similarities in many things.

Thanks
 
Nicro said:
I converted
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I do not want anyone to start attacking you in this. Please do not turn this into an opportunity to pronounce judgement.

Nick,
What attracted you to Islam? How did the process start?
 
well, I have been studying different religions for quite awhile then learned about Islam it made sense to me so I embraced it.
 
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