A decent talk

  • Thread starter Thread starter Nicro
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
pismopal said:
Your post failed to document a single statement by me or anyone else that amounts to hatred. All you did was play attorney at law in your own defense and look silly (another hate crime by pismopal). I can’t waste anymore time with you…if you want to play silly games I can get out of your way. I have accused Islam of some serious matters but you can’t defend Islam…all you can do is attack me and you aren’t doing a convincing job of that either. It is your book and your religion that is involved in violence against infidels (that includes me,happily) but you have not seen fit to refute that. Work on it and get back to us.
PS Hate is not disagreeing with someone or remonstrating…hate is attacking others physically…teaching ones children to view non believers as inferior and worthy of attack and believing it yourself.
Click to expand...
I am of mixed European. Mostly Irish and a little native Indian. Irish-Mothers side immigrated 4 generations back,fathers 3 generations. My parents hopped back and forth from Protestant to Protestant until I was 4 and nothing since. How much more clearer can “I’M NOT A MUSLIM” get?

I am merely stating facts here. I have no religious bias.
 
In Sudan an English school teacher has been jailed for allowing children to name a teddy bear Muhammad.

She was sentenced to 15 days.

There were riots in the streets of Khartoum calling for her death.

Thus “the religion of peace”
 
Hi

Those who did this cruel act did not do it with justice and clearly against what is stated in Quran or commanded by Islam/Muhammad, so Quran/Islam/Muhammad are not responsible of their crime.

The wrong doers would suffer in this world and also in the herefafter.

IslamQuranMuhammad are absolutely peaceful and loving.

Thanks
 
Paar,

And yet, this sort of thing happens over and over again.

This is not an isolated example and while it may not even reflect the opinion of the majority it happens far too often to be a mere anomaly.

Your religion has a serious problem.
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi

Those who did this cruel act did not do it with justice and clearly against what is stated in Quran or commanded by Islam/Muhammad, so Quran/Islam/Muhammad are not responsible of their crime.

The wrong doers would suffer in this world and also in the herefafter.

IslamQuranMuhammad are absolutely peaceful and loving.

Thanks
Click to expand...
I truly want to believe you. Believe that IslamQuranMuhammad are absolutely peaceful and loving. Sometimes I pray that their followers are equally peaceful and loving.

But look at this - it is just a teddy bear! Just a name! Someone names a teddy bear Muhammad, someone who does not believe in Muhammad. She could have named it Bozo.

But just because she gave it a “wrong” name, she got jailed by the authority and the city cried for her blood. So what kind of peaceful and loving religion is this? You cannot mistake the multitude of Sudanese who riot as fanatics. They simply just show their real feeling and it’s something definitely not very peaceful and loving.

If you continue to maintain that Islam is a peaceful and loving religion, then I would say it is a failed religion! Because when a person touches a nerve, the nation calls for blood.

How we wish Muslims follow your brand of Islam! Then obviously 911 would not have happened. But then again, if that is the case, you would still have Eygpt, Turkey, Syria and the entire North Africa, Christian nations. Because that was what they were before the Islamic army conquered and subjugated them.

May God have mercy.
 
Somehow, I end up bouncing from one side to the other trying to maintain the “decent” part of the talk.

I’ve done some studying, and as near as I can tell, the Shaira laws are not supposed to be applied to non-Muslims. This seems to be violated at every opportunity. This fact seems to be missed by both the leadership in Muslim countries and the populace, though I think some of the more educated Muslims support this teaching.

From a Western point of view, Islam seems to be a religion of dicotomies. It claims to be a religion of Peace and it uses violence to reach many ends. The laws tend to be draconian and women have nearly no rights. I know that Christianity has its share of dirty laundry, but that is a topic for another thread.

I do not think that we can accomplish anything when we get hateful. Deportation of Muslims will not “fix” anything. I am not sure what will. Someone mentioned the SS man being friends with a Jewish person. From the West, it seems like a good analogy. If it is a peaceful religion, why are teachers who spread hate allowed to teach? I am willing to drop the government questions. I think that the rank and file Muslims do nto care how bad the governments are. Why are religious leaders to teach violence allowed to do so?

There is also a charge that Muslims, per the Koran, are allowed to lie to and decieve non-Muslims in order to promote the spread of Islam. Is this true?
 
lhagan said:
I am of mixed European. Mostly Irish and a little native Indian. Irish-Mothers side immigrated 4 generations back,fathers 3 generations. My parents hopped back and forth from Protestant to Protestant until I was 4 and nothing since. How much more clearer can “I’M NOT A MUSLIM” get?

I am merely stating facts here. I have no religious bias.
Click to expand...
Very interesting…thank you. I am sure you will have beautiful children but about that Islam thing…please do go on with your defense.
 
There is also a charge that Muslims, per the Koran, are allowed to lie to and decieve non-Muslims in order to promote the spread of Islam. Is this true?
Click to expand...
Hi

Islam does allow to speak lie, this contention is not supported by Quran/Islam/Muhammad.

[25:64] And the true servants of the Gracious God are those who walk on the earth humbly and when the ignorant address them, they avoid them gracefully by saying, ‘Peace!’
[25:65] And who spend the night in prostration and standing before their Lord,
[25:66] And who say, 'Our Lord, avert from us the punishment of Hell; for the punishment thereof is a most vehement torment,
[25:67] ‘It is indeed evil as a place of rest and as an abode.’
[25:68] And those who, when they spend, are neither extravagant nor niggardly but adopt a moderate position in the middle;
[25:69] And those who call not on any other god along with Allah, nor slay a person whose slaying Allah has forbidden except for a just cause, nor commit adultery - and he who does that shall meet the punishment of his sin;
[25:70] Doubled for him shall be the punishment on the Day of Resurrection, and he will abide therein disgraced -
[25:71] Except those who repent, and believe and do righteous deeds, for as to these, Allah will convert their evil deeds into good ones, and Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.
[25:72] And those who repent and do righteous deeds, indeed turn to Allah with true repentance;
[25:73] And those who bear not false witness*, and when they pass by anything vain, they pass by with dignity;
[25:74] And those who, when they are reminded of the Signs of their Lord, fall not down thereat deaf and blind;
[25:75] And those who say, ‘Our Lord, grant us of our wives and children the delight of our eyes, and make us a model for the righteous.’
[25:76] It is such as will be rewarded with lofty chambers in Paradise, because they were steadfast, and they will be received therein with greeting and peace,
Unquote
*this is also translated as (lies)

Thanks
 
Paar,
What is Al-taqiyya? Do some sects of Islam think that it is acceptable under this concept to decieve non-Muslims at this time by calling it a time of War?
 
Before I answer the issue of is Islam a religion of peace (with the help of Prof. German Muoz of Miami Dade College who relies on the Koran and I quote him from his paper on "JIHAD AND THE MYTH OF RELIGIOUS FREEDOM UNDER ISLAM
the ) let me say that there is nothing in Christian scripture that enjoins us to allow our people and nation to be overrun with deceitful non-christians who try to invoke the charity ruse to get us to disarm and stop attacking their virulent cancerous creed. We love but we don’t allow ourselves to be fooled.

***II. JIHAD

The Arabic word jihad (verbal noun of the verb jahada) means to strive, to exert oneself, to struggle in the way of Allah. The word has had various meanings. In a spiritual context, it may express a struggle against one’s selfish inclinations, or be an exertion for the sake of Islam and the umma, the community of Muslims, such as converting unbelievers (jihad of the tongue), or working for the moral betternment of Islamic society (jihad of the pen). It can also be used in a non-religious, generic way such as a jihad against drugs.

However, jihad’s struggle can also mean armed, violent struggle against the unbelievers, which is a common meaning in the Koran and in the book of Islamic law. The concept goes back to the wars fought by Muhammad and their written reflection in the Koran. It was influenced by the ideas of war among pre-Islamic, northern, Arabic Bedouin tribes which saw wars as the normal, lawful state unless a truce interfered.

In the Koran, verses advocating peaceful relations with non-Muslims, mostly identified with Muhammad’s teaching in Mecca, co-exist with verses demanding the extermination, forced conversion or repression of the infidel. The latter are associated with Muhammad’s commandments in Medina, particularly after 624. Sometimes the peaceful jihad is called the greater or internal jihad, while the jihad of the sword is labeled the smaller or external jihad.

And yet, the classical Muslim interpretation of the Koran regarded the sword verses, with the unconditional command to fight the unbelievers, as having abrogated all previous verses concerning the peaceful intercourse with non-Muslims, including Sura 2:256 which states “let there be no compulsion in religion.” Abrogation is a progressive revelation mentioned in Sura 2:106, by which Allah substituted certain koranic pronouncements for “something better or similar.” The apparent contradiction with Sura 10:64, which states that nothing can be changed in the Koran, is resolved by Sura 17:86, which states that no one can withdraw revelation except Allah himself.

Suras for Jihad

The following verses from the Koran leave no doubt that the classical interpretation of Jihad is associated with fighting in a physical, military way… For example, in Sura 9:5, it is stated that the believers should slay the pagans wherever they are found. Some Muslims believe this passage only applies to that particular historical period. However, there are others who believe by analogy that this command always applies because **Muhammad is the perfect model for behavior as stated in Sura 33:21. ****
  1. And fight them on until there is no more Persecution
    And the religion becomes Allah’s (Sura 2:193);
  2. …but If they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward
    of those who reject faith (Sura 2:191);
    1. The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and
      His Messenger, and strive with might and main
      For mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands And feet from opposite sides, or exile
      from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and A heavy
      punishment is theirs in the Hereafter (Sura 5:33);
  3. Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message):
    “I am with you”: give Firmness to the Believers: I will instill
    terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above
    their necks cut off their heads] and smite all their finger-tips off them” (Sura 8:12);
  4. But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans {unbelievers or idolaters} wherever ye find them, And seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them In every stratagem (of war) (Sura 9:5);
  5. Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, Nor hold that Forbidden which hath been forbidden By Allah and his Messenger, Nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the jizya with willing submission, And feel themselves Subdued {humiliated}
    (Sura 9:29);
  6. Ye who believe! Fight The Unbelievers who are near to you And let them find harshness In you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him (Sura 9:123);*
 
And another thing…

From the Gospel of Mark quoting Our Lord Jesus Christ:
from Chapter 16 Vs.15-16:

**"He said to them, "Go into the whole world and proclaim the gospel to every creature.

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned." **

Sadly this mandate from Our Lord and Savior is frustrated at so many moments in Moslem nations throughout the world-not due to simple human prejudice (which can be found among those who profess any religion) but because of the prevalence and OBSERVATION of Shariah law.

All my fellow Cathlics who think my postings are meanspirited should read my last post that includes citations from the Koran-it is eye opening.

We must have a special regard for the suffering Christians who are persecuted by those who faithfully practice the Moslem religion which relegates Christians at best to second class “dhimmi” status and results in the MURDER of those brave moslems who embrace Christianity. We must ask ourselves if a pluralistic society can survive if we allow those who profess a creed that aims at the REPLACEMENT of our great republic with a shariah state to come here and use our openess to destroy us. Is this not stupidity? How can we graciously listen to the sweet words of proselytizing muslims while we disregard the heartfelt pleas of our brothers and sisters in islamic lands who are grievously suffering at this time due to muslim laws? I encourage all of you at this Christmas time to help Christians in the Mid-east through the Catholic Near East Welfare Association and to pray for the conversion of Muslims especially in the U.S.
 
widower4604 said:
Can’t prove anything? Give me a break!!!
It proves how totally screwed up Islam is. It’s not because their “wahabbist” or any rubbish like that.

Look the problem with Islam is really simple-the KORAN and the “prophet” Mohammed. Wherever Islam or muslims rule you find all sorts of abusive situations like this. The answer
  1. Don’t allow proselytizing by Muslims
  2. deport them-sure there are decent muslims. The problem is they are mixed in with the ones who practice this demented
    creed and how do we protect ourselves from them carrying out what “Allah” decrees?
  3. Stop allowing automatic U.S. citizenship for those born here of foreign non U.S. citizen parents.
  4. refuse to allow immigrants from Muslim countries to come here
    unless they are Christians or from other religions. .
  5. Drill for oil in ANWR (Alaska) and in the Gulf of mexico & off Florida’s coast; build oil refineries; build/expand nuclear power plants-all this will help the muslim oil nations to go broke
  6. Airdrop billions of leaflets over muslim countries to get them to convert to Christianity.
Click to expand...
AMEN Brother.

Turn the legitimate power of the State against the Mosques !

Long Live the Christian Falange !!!
 
I have mentioned before that I have been studying the Sharaih laws. All five major school of jurisprudence call for the execution of any male who leaves the faith. ALL FIVE! Some do place some exceptions on it, but all five do call for it. I would like some clarification. If this is true, why should i assume that I can be Catholic in a Muslim land? Nic, Paar, Hamba, and other Muslims, please talk about this.

I would also like some information about Al-taqiyya. Please explain what this is and when it can be used. Some non-Muslims claim this to be one reason that Muslims cannot be trusted. They also alledge that Muslims have lied in other countries to gain a foothold then changed the tune once they had strong enough numbers. Any truth to this from your point of view?
 
widower4604 said:
And another thing…

From the Gospel of Mark quoting Our Lord Jesus Christ:
from Chapter 16 Vs.15-16:

**"He said to them, "Go into the whole world and proclaim the gospel to every creature.

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned." **

Sadly this mandate from Our Lord and Savior is frustrated at so many moments in Moslem nations throughout the world-not due to simple human prejudice (which can be found among those who profess any religion) but because of the prevalence and OBSERVATION of Shariah law.

All my fellow Cathlics who think my postings are meanspirited should read my last post that includes citations from the Koran-it is eye opening.

We must have a special regard for the suffering Christians who are persecuted by those who faithfully practice the Moslem religion which relegates Christians at best to second class “dhimmi” status and results in the MURDER of those brave moslems who embrace Christianity. We must ask ourselves if a pluralistic society can survive if we allow those who profess a creed that aims at the REPLACEMENT of our great republic with a shariah state to come here and use our openess to destroy us. Is this not stupidity? How can we graciously listen to the sweet words of proselytizing muslims while we disregard the heartfelt pleas of our brothers and sisters in islamic lands who are grievously suffering at this time due to muslim laws? I encourage all of you at this Christmas time to help Christians in the Mid-east through the Catholic Near East Welfare Association and to pray for the conversion of Muslims especially in the U.S.
Click to expand...
This is the true path. God bless those who ar brave enough to follow it.

For the rest of us. Be vigilant. Do not be fooled. Organize and Resist Islamization. Resist Christophobia. Resist Sharia.
 
I would also like some information about Al-taqiyya. Please explain what this is and when it can be used. Some non-Muslims claim this to be one reason that Muslims cannot be trusted. They also alledge that Muslims have lied in other countries to gain a foothold then changed the tune once they had strong enough numbers. Any truth to this from your point of view?

Great question. I think the following from Bob Spencer’s website Jihad watch will be informative (thanks to Islam 101 by Gregory M. Davis whose work is on one of Jihad Watch tabs at the top)
:

i. Taqiyya – Religious Deception

Due to the state of war between dar al-Islam and dar al-harb, reuses de guerre, i.e., systematic lying to the infidel, must be considered part and parcel of Islamic tactics. The parroting by Muslim organizations throughout dar al-harb that “Islam is a religion of peace,” or that the origins of Muslim violence lie in the unbalanced psyches of particular individual “fanatics,” must be considered as disinformation intended to induce the infidel world to let down its guard. Of course, individual Muslims may genuinely regard their religion as “peaceful” – but only insofar as they are ignorant of its true teachings, or in the sense of the Egyptian theorist Sayyid Qutb, who posited in his Islam and Universal Peace that true peace would prevail in the world just as soon as Islam had conquered it.

A telling point is that, while Muslims who present their religion as peaceful abound throughout dar al-harb, they are nearly non-existent in dar al-Islam. A Muslim apostate once suggested to me a litmus test for Westerners who believe that Islam is a religion of “peace” and “tolerance”: try making that point on a street corner in Ramallah, or Riyadh, or Islamabad, or anywhere in the Muslim world. He assured me you wouldn’t live five minutes.

{A} problem concerning law and order {with respect to Muslims in dar al-harb} arises from an ancient Islamic legal principle – that of taqiyya, a word the root meaning of which is “to remain faithful” but which in effect means “dissimulation.” It has full Quranic authority (3:28 and 16:106) and allows the Muslim to conform outwardly to the requirements of unislamic or non-Islamic government, while inwardly “remaining faithful” to whatever he conceives to be proper Islam, while waiting for the tide to turn. (Hiskett, Some to Mecca Turn to Pray, 101.)
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 269; Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah: The Prophet said, “War is deceit.”

Historically, examples of taqiyya include permission to renounce Islam itself in order to save one’s neck or ingratiate oneself with an enemy. It is not hard to see that the implications of taqiyya are insidious in the extreme: they essentially render negotiated settlement – and, indeed, all veracious communication between dar al-Islam and dar al-harb – impossible. It should not, however, be surprising that a party to a war should seek to mislead the other about its means and intentions. Jihad Watch’s own Hugh Fitzgerald sums up taqiyya and kitman, a related form of deception.

“Taqiyya” is the religiously-sanctioned doctrine, with its origins in Shi’a Islam but now practiced by non-Shi’a as well, of deliberate dissimulation about religious matters that may be undertaken to protect Islam, and the Believers. A related term, of broader application, is “kitman,” which is defined as “mental reservation.” An example of “Taqiyya” would be the insistence of a Muslim apologist that “of course” there is freedom of conscience in Islam, and then quoting that Qur’anic verse – “There shall be no compulsion in religion.” {2:256} But the impression given will be false, for there has been no mention of the Muslim doctrine of abrogation, or naskh, whereby such an early verse as that about “no compulsion in religion” has been cancelled out by later, far more intolerant and malevolent verses. In any case, history shows that within Islam there is, and always has been, “compulsion in religion” for Muslims, and for non-Muslims.

May those among us on Catholic Answers reflect on this before we assume muslims on this site are trying to promote dialogue and truth between religions.
 
Wow I am growing tired of this. Why do you expect me to join your faith when all you do is mock me, and insult me? I will answer about Taqiyya. It is used to save yourself or families. Say like people are being killed for being Muslim, you can say you are not or say something about it to make it appealing to them. But most find it to be a bad thing and wont use it at all. And as for Jihadwatch, it is run by a bunch of ex kkk boys who want something to hate. I think I should start ignorant, stupid, white watch.
 
Nicro said:
Wow I am growing tired of this. Why do you expect me to join your faith when all you do is mock me, and insult me? I will answer about Taqiyya. It is used to save yourself or families. Say like people are being killed for being Muslim, you can say you are not or say something about it to make it appealing to them. But most find it to be a bad thing and wont use it at all. And as for Jihadwatch, it is run by a bunch of ex kkk boys who want something to hate. I think I should start ignorant, stupid, white watch.
Click to expand...
That comment betrays your racist mentality.

Maybe you should start “mendacious, dissimulating, terror-and-sharia supporter” watch.
 
Its a fact that they are all a bunch of white supremest rednecks. So yes they are stupid, and ignorant and white. Its when people do stuff like this that people wanna blow stuff up.
 
Nicro said:
Its a fact that they are all a bunch of white supremest rednecks. So yes they are stupid, and ignorant and white. Its when people do stuff like this that people wanna blow stuff up.
Click to expand...
You are the pot calling the kettle black.

You are on on racist hate-monger.

You are the mirror-image of those you accuse.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top