A Diocese Smells the Coffee: Starts Planning for Decline of the Ordinary Form and Growth of the TLM

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Yes. Converts at the Easter Vigil are also communed for the first time by the archbishop while kneeling at the altar rail.

I realize that’s not true everywhere… but the issue isn’t EF vs OF Mass per se, but rather a general attitude towards tradition.
 
Look, I like the TLM as much as anyone and I’m glad to see it’s growing. But I don’t see it overtaking the OF.

Ideally, the two rites of Mass will flourish and inform one another, as Pope Emeritus Benedict said.
 
If you want to see what the future looks like, pay attention to the youth. I think that is why this diocese can see this happening. The OF Mass, at least the way it is seen today, will decline because the youth and the young priests coming up are not as dedicated to all the changes that happened over the last 50 years, as those that are serving now. Tradition, the TLM and an increase in reverence at Mass is on the rise, by a new generation coming up behind us. I am older and I realize many of my generation themselves are wanting a return of reverence also but it is the youth who are making it happen. I hope I am around to see much more of this happening.
twf said:
Yes. Converts at the Easter Vigil are also communed for the first time by the archbishop while kneeling at the altar rail.

I realize that’s not true everywhere… but the issue isn’t EF vs OF Mass per se, but rather a general attitude towards tradition.
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That sounds nice. Are you in the United States? As far as I know not too many receive kneeling at an altar rail at OF Masses, not in the United States anyway.

There are a couple of parishes near me that have added kneelers in front of the sanctuary for people to kneel but it is probably at least a little less than half that kneel.
 
No, Vancouver, Canada. As long as I’ve been here, the cathedral has been quite conservative. OF Mass only typically, but kneeling at the altar rail is always an option and very popular.
 
twf said:
No, Vancouver, Canada. As long as I’ve been here, the cathedral has been quite conservative. OF Mass only typically, but kneeling at the altar rail is always an option and very popular.
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I like that. I can’t think of any parish near me that has altar rails. I haven’t even seen an altar rail since my teen years. I remember when they were ripped out and my father being saddened by the destruction. Some parishes have been adding kneelers in front of the sancturay within the last several years though so people can kneel. I appreciate them doing that.
 
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twf said:
No, but I definitely think we have, and will continue to see, a shift towards a more “traditional” celebration of the OF. In my experience (and I realize this may vary widely by region), younger priests are far more likely to chant, use incense, etc…
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I can definitely agree with the above from my own personal vantage point. I’ve seen a larger shift towards more solemn and reverent practices by younger folks, lay and clerical, within the past decade or so (not saying that encompasses everyone). I see three major groups at play here:

Group A: Folks who lived through Vatican II and were old enough to remember life prior to the reforms and want to hold onto/go back to that

Group B: Folks who lived through Vatican II and either remember prior or came of age during the 1970s who don’t want anything to do with the EF or group A’s mentality.

Then there’s the up and coming

Group C: Has no particular favoritism or entrenched ideas about the liturgical reforms and is looking at things from an objective and critical viewpoint. This is the mentality that I find with a good number of younger (40 and under) folks who are knowledgeable about the Church/apologetics/theology etc.

I don’t think we will ever see an abolition of the OF, or a “reform of the reform” per se, but I think this younger generation is looking into what the council documents actually said versus some of the liberties that were taken in the “spirit” of the council which led to bad formation and practices that are now harder to uproot that they are 50 years rooted. It’s interesting to note that of the 5 or so priests in my diocese that celebrate the extraordinary form only one was alive prior to the reforms and none were ordained prior. Three of these men were ordained in the past decade.
 
victrolatim said:
but I think this younger generation is looking into what the council documents actually said versus some of the liberties that were taken in the “spirit” of the council which led to bad formation and practices that are now harder to uproot that they are 50 years rooted.
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The Catholic Church is not in too good a shape 50 years on from Vatican II. I could see a future Pope calling for a Vatican III to take a second look at Vatican II to see why the liberals went off the rails.
 
CilladeRoma said:
What I don’t appreciate is that far too many people who prefer the EF don’t want to give me to even have the OF and thinknthat they are somehow better, more pious, more appreciative Catholics.
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I go to, and prefer the OF. But I have not seen anyone who prefers the EF advocate to end the OF for 30 years. Yea, I remember those arguments to turn back the clock back in the 70s or 80s, but not since then.
 
CilladeRoma said:
What I don’t appreciate is that far too many people who prefer the EF don’t want to give me to even have the OF
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I don’t think that is the case but if it were it might be backlash because of the liberals doing the same with suppression of the TLM before Summorum Pontificum.
 
Lol yeah that too but I think as the ‘spirit’ of Vatican II crowd moves on, the young and up and coming clergy will be willing to take a second look.
 
What? Nobody said anything about you never having an OF.

But just imagine if somebody ‘took away’ your OF overnight one Sunday and then told you, “You have to worship THIS way now”, and for nearly 40 years you never had your OF. Oh, once in a while you heard that there was a place in some far-away diocese that had it. . .now and then. . .but not in YOUR diocese. The bishop in your diocese HATED the OF and even told you it had been forbidden by the Pope. And when the Pope actually took the steps of telling the world that people who wanted the OF could have it, it had NEVER been replaced, still the majority of priests and bishops around you made all kinds of trouble, insisting that it was too ‘hard’ for the priests to learn after all these years, that it needed a ‘stable group’, and they mocked you and insulted you and claimed that people who wanted ‘your’ OF were hypocrites, and hateful, and wanted to take away the Mass that was ‘the regular Mass’ that had replaced your OF and that YOU wanted to take THAT away and foist your OF on THEM. . .

I’ll bet you’d say that you and your fellow OF lovers would never do such a thing.

So why are you so quick to accuse your fellow Catholics who like the EF of wanting to ‘do you dirt’ and deprive YOU?

most of us who remember the EF had IT taken away exactly as above. Why would we inflict the pain we had to suffer on others???
 
ThomasMT said:
Without being accused of trying to draw attention to self? Without dirty looks? Without risk of being reproached for it by the priest himself?
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In the parish I regularly attend, yes. The number of people taking the option is small, but there is absolutely not one iota of reproach or “stink eye” for lack of a better term discernable, from the clergy, EMHCs, or parishioners.
 
twf said:
I definitely think we have, and will continue to see, a shift towards a more “traditional” celebration of the OF
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Agreed. Then again, that’s just the normal pendulum swing, reversing the trends of the 70’s / 80’s, don’t you think?
 
whatistrue said:
In the parish I regularly attend, yes. The number of people taking the option is small, but there is absolutely not one iota of reproach or “stink eye” for lack of a better term discernable, from the clergy, EMHCs, or parishioners.
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We have the same situation. Many receive on the tongue. Some kneel. By far more receive in the hand while standing. But no one gets “the look” for receiving however they decide.

The only time that I have seen it as a problem for our priest is when a woman knelt last Saturday evening. She knelt, hands folded in prayer, head back, eyes closed, mouth open and tongue out. When Communion didn’t come, she opened her eyes. Father motioned to her. See, she was about 3 to 4 feet from him. He would have had to walk down the step, then take a couple of steps to reach her.

I am sure that she felt that he didn’t want her to receive kneeling. But it was that she needed to be closer when she dropped down.
 
The problem I foresee is that, let’s say EF Mass overtakes and becomes dominant in, say twenty years. Then what happens fifty years after that? “We hate Latin! I need Mass in my heart-language! We need everyone to participate in the same way at the same time for conscious full and active participation!”
 
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