A father and daughter at Mass

[kage_ar]

Hmm…I agree but some lovely teenagers really hate having to go to confession…so I do not think it is that they are not ready for the sacrament they just dont wanna do it!

as a mom I know when my kids have sinned…I also know when they have gone to confession becuase I take them (they cant drive ya know)

DS is always included when DH of I go for confession, andand DS will ask to go other times. There have been episodes where I have looked him in the eye and said “you may want to think about the gravity of this matter and maybe take it up with Father in Confession” but would NEVER presume to be able to determine what is mortal sin for my teen. The three qualifications for sin to be mortal:

Grave Matter
Full knowledge
Consent

Are subjective. The state of his soul when it comes to recieving the Eucharist is between him and his confessor and God.

 

[netmilsmom]

DS is always included when DH of I go for confession, andand DS will ask to go other times. There have been episodes where I have looked him in the eye and said “you may want to think about the gravity of this matter and maybe take it up with Father in Confession” but would NEVER presume to be able to determine what is mortal sin for my teen. The three qualifications for sin to be mortal:

Grave Matter
Full knowledge
Consent

Are subjective. The state of his soul when it comes to recieving the Eucharist is between him and his confessor and God.

Confessions before Holy Mass help.
I don’t quiz about mortal sins and always say we can confess venial sins too. You get the grace no matter what.
It takes the “guilt” out of it.

 

[Karin]

DS is always included when DH of I go for confession, andand DS will ask to go other times. There have been episodes where I have looked him in the eye and said “you may want to think about the gravity of this matter and maybe take it up with Father in Confession” but would NEVER presume to be able to determine what is mortal sin for my teen. The three qualifications for sin to be mortal:

Grave Matter
Full knowledge
Consent

Are subjective. The state of his soul when it comes to recieving the Eucharist is between him and his confessor and God.

I see what you mean…I do not persume to know the state of my kids souls…but at certain times I am pretty sure I do …he does go to confession before every mass…that way there is no problem with receiving…he is one that if he has sinned (in his own mind) he will not recieve if he missed confession or was unable to get to it before Mass

 

[Orionthehunter]

I think the father should have made it clear to his daughter before Mass that she shouldn’t receive and kept quiet once Mass already started. Mass is not the place to be reminding anybody whether they should receive or not (aside from the priest refusing Communion to someone). It’s just completely inappropriate. Even if she had gotten up and gone anyway, the Dad should have kept quiet. At that point, it’s between her and God.

Carol Marie has it right. Parents are the first teachers. Why is everyone commenting on when the father chooses to be a teacher? Maybe he just thought of it. Maybe he decided that he wanted her to face the consequences at that moment so she could pray about it alone in the pew. And, maybe he wanted it to happen so in combination with having to fast from the Eucharist, he deemed it appropriate that she suffer some public admonition among her parishioners. He knew what she did and he deemed it serious (this is not known by the OP). As far as I’m concerned, he has the facts and he is the father. Case closed.

Furthermore, what is with this quibbling about it being mortal or venial? Under the definition of what is mortal (needing full knowledge and full consent), my children probably never committed a mortal sin until they were teenagers, despite being mischeivous and sinful in their own ways. But I, as their teacher made them go to confession regularly up from after First Communion until they went to college (and my college freshmen initiated her own trip to the confessional when she got home for Christmas). My Priest goes to confessoin every other week and I’m sure there are periods when he isn’t under mortal sin.

Granted, if it is a venial sin, it is forgiven in teh Act of Penance and upon the receipt of the Eucharist. But that doesn’t mean that it shouldn’t be confessed, especially if it is a common sin.

 

[Holland]

Its very encouraging to hear you folks say you would do this. Its that “grave matter” thing that gets most people confused. My brother-in-law didn’t go to Sunday Mass before Christmas because he was going to Midnight Mass. He is new to the Catholic Church, less than a year, and it shows he really doesn’t understand some things about sin. I will talk to him privately ASAP.

 

[carol_marie]

When my son lies to ME - his mother … it’s always a MORTAL sin.

 

[Damascus]

Its very encouraging to hear you folks say you would do this. Its that “grave matter” thing that gets most people confused. My brother-in-law didn’t go to Sunday Mass before Christmas because he was going to Midnight Mass. He is new to the Catholic Church, less than a year, and it shows he really doesn’t understand some things about sin. I will talk to him privately ASAP.

 

[masondoggy]

Carol Marie has it right. Parents are the first teachers. Why is everyone commenting on when the father chooses to be a teacher? Maybe he just thought of it. Maybe he decided that he wanted her to face the consequences at that moment so she could pray about it alone in the pew. And, maybe he wanted it to happen so in combination with having to fast from the Eucharist, he deemed it appropriate that she suffer some public admonition among her parishioners. He knew what she did and he deemed it serious (this is not known by the OP). As far as I’m concerned, he has the facts and he is the father. Case closed.

Furthermore, what is with this quibbling about it being mortal or venial? Under the definition of what is mortal (needing full knowledge and full consent), my children probably never committed a mortal sin until they were teenagers, despite being mischeivous and sinful in their own ways. But I, as their teacher made them go to confession regularly up from after First Communion until they went to college (and my college freshmen initiated her own trip to the confessional when she got home for Christmas). My Priest goes to confessoin every other week and I’m sure there are periods when he isn’t under mortal sin.

Granted, if it is a venial sin, it is forgiven in teh Act of Penance and upon the receipt of the Eucharist. But that doesn’t mean that it shouldn’t be confessed, especially if it is a common sin.

I agree venial sins need to be confessed, but should not keep one from receiving Communion. And putting pressure on a kid to not receive Communion when they’ve committed a venial sin is harmful to them spiritually.

 

[LilyM]

When my son lies to ME - his mother … it’s always a MORTAL sin.

There are certain things that even someone’s mother has no right to know about them. Not that there’d be very many, and not that I’m presuming to judge the particular situations with you and your son. The MERE fact that you’re his mother therefore doesn’t make a lie a grave or mortal sin.

 

[carol_marie]

I agree venial sins need to be confessed, but should not keep one from receiving Communion. And putting pressure on a kid to not receive Communion when they’ve committed a venial sin is harmful to them spiritually.

Maybe I am wrong about the mortal sin thing… you tell me:

Example:

Kid: May I do XYZ?

Mom: No. You may NOT do XYZ.

Kid: Please please please may I do XYZ? (Begs for several days, asks Dad - same answer No.)

Kid: Fine - I won’t.

Kid goes off and does XYZ when no one is home and thinks he won’t get caught. Mom finds out. Kid admits that he KNEW doing xyz was wrong but wanted to do it anyhow. Kid lied when he said he wouldn’t do xyz - fully intended to do it anyhow - just said he wouldn’t to shut mom up.

Mortal sin - yea or neigh?

 

[carol_marie]

There are certain things that even someone’s mother has no right to know about them. Not that there’d be very many, and not that I’m presuming to judge the particular situations with you and your son. The MERE fact that you’re his mother therefore doesn’t make a lie a grave or mortal sin.

I was joking - hence the

 

[Orionthehunter]

I agree venial sins need to be confessed, but should not keep one from receiving Communion. And putting pressure on a kid to not receive Communion when they’ve committed a venial sin is harmful to them spiritually.

Thanks for the parenting advice. But, first, we don’t know if what was done was a mortal or venial sin. Second, as per Carol’s example where she asks if it is mortal or not, I have no idea but in that circumstance if a parent said they need to not go to communion until they go to confession, I defer to their judgment. God made the parents the first teacher. Not outsiders looking in.

 

[kage_ar]

One time my son, he was 15 at the time, admitted to a lie. This had been an ongoing lie, and he simply could not stand lying to me one more day. Not being the perfect mother, I lost it with him, told him not only was he in trouble for lying to me but he’d better get to Confession because it was a mortal sin.

My DH pulled me outside, and reminded me that while the lie was wrong and DS would be punished, the mortal sin was not our determination. You know, DS did ask DH to take him to confession that Saturday (he is the kind of teen who goes willingly to Confession often). I, too, confessed this incident.

 

[Karin]

One time my son, he was 15 at the time, admitted to a lie. This had been an ongoing lie, and he simply could not stand lying to me one more day. Not being the perfect mother, I lost it with him, told him not only was he in trouble for lying to me but he’d better get to Confession because it was a mortal sin.

My DH pulled me outside, and reminded me that while the lie was wrong and DS would be punished, the mortal sin was not our determination. You know, DS did ask DH to take him to confession that Saturday (he is the kind of teen who goes willingly to Confession often). I, too, confessed this incident.

Is it really that harmful to tell them it is a mortal sin?
especially if doing so gets them to stop doing it and go to Confession?

 

[Orionthehunter]

Is it really that harmful to tell them it is a mortal sin?
especially if doing so gets them to stop doing it and go to Confession?

Karin, you can’t be serious. You are asking if it is a harmful to lie to your children about the seriousness of lying.

By the way, I think that the distinction of whether lying is a mortal or venial sin relates to the object and the intent. The act itself is not grave matter.

 

[Karin]

Karin, you can’t be serious. You are asking if it is a harmful to lie to your children about the seriousness of lying.

By the way, I think that the distinction of whether lying is a mortal or venial sin relates to the object and the intent. The act itself is not grave matter.

no what I mean to ask is if my kids tell me a lie (as the example)…and it is a serious one in my book and I tell him that is a mortal sin…lying and he better get to confession…people see an issue with that?
The point I am trying to get across to the kids is that lying is not right and in the context that they do it (not white lies) it is a sin and they need to go to confession.

 

[Orionthehunter]

no what I mean to ask is if my kids tell me a lie (as the example)…and it is a serious one in my book and I tell him that is a mortal sin…lying and he better get to confession…people see an issue with that?
The point I am trying to get across to the kids is that lying is not right and in the context that they do it (not white lies) it is a sin and they need to go to confession.

I know what you are trying to do (teach your child that lying is a serious matter). And you are not telling the truth to do it. Don’t you see the disconnect?

I think part of the problem is that there seems to be a belief that Confession is only for mortal sins. This is not true. It is to repair our relationship with God (even when not mortally wounded) and gain the graces to overcome sin (venial and mortal). If a child tells lies, it can lead to more serious sins and they need the graces to overcome it. And in this context, you don’t have to lie to get them to Confession about their lying.

 

[puzzleannie]

how fortunate the father and daughter (relationship speculative unless you knwo the family) was talking loud enough that you know for certain the topic of their conversation. how fortunate that you were not interested in receiving communion yourself so that you had free time and attention to observe and speculate about the behavior of other people present at Mass. It is an exceedingly dangerous to one’s spiritual health to spend any time whatever in speculating on the presumed state of soul or spirituality of other persons, or to make observations and comments about their behavior, unless you are somehow charged with responsibility for their welfare, such as abbot/monastic, priest/penitent etc.

 

[Holland]

how fortunate the father and daughter (relationship speculative unless you knwo the family) was talking loud enough that you know for certain the topic of their conversation. how fortunate that you were not interested in receiving communion yourself so that you had free time and attention to observe and speculate about the behavior of other people present at Mass. It is an exceedingly dangerous to one’s spiritual health to spend any time whatever in speculating on the presumed state of soul or spirituality of other persons, or to make observations and comments about their behavior, unless you are somehow charged with responsibility for their welfare, such as abbot/monastic, priest/penitent etc.

:crying: Good Grief, don’t slap so hard. Pray for me instead. Did I hear what was said, no, but it was very obvious what was going on. Do I need to pay more attention at Mass, YES!, but because I am a miserable sinner I fall on my face sometimes.

 

[Deborah]

If the occasion called for it I would. Who knows, maybe the mass ran shorter than expected and dear 'ol dad had to inform the girl, at Communion time, that that last bite of breakfast as they headed out the door didn’t allow for an hour fast. I have teenage girls who manage to use *every last moment *before we head out the door.
Deborah