A "few" will be saved?

[PJD1987]

I have not read the entire thread, however, this topic brought up a question I’ve been thinking about regarding, confession, salvation, and damnation. If everyone who is in mortal sin confesses before death, (on their deathbed, say), then they are saved from damnation…and even if one is incapacitated, Extreme Unction (Anointing of the Sick) also forgives sin, correct?

So…if someone never went to confession their entire life, but is on their deathbed and receives the Anointing of the Sick…they are saved? Correct? It begs the question to those who are lukewarm in their faith, as to why they should go to confession once a month, if they can just do it once on their deathbed, with the same efficacy, no? In any case, it would lead me to believe that a lot of sinners are saved through the Mercy of the Lord in the Sacrament of Reconciliation and the Anointing of the Sick. Any thoughts?

God bless.

-Paul

 

[paul_c]

I think its perhaps helpful to sum up this thread with comments about the good faith on both sides of this debate

→ Those that advocate a position that many will be saved do so because they are afraid to demotivate people from seeking heaven with the thought that few are saved.

–>Those that advocate a position that few are saved are attempting to save those from complacency that think they have done enough to be saved by simply being average.

I favor the second view, simply because there is no scripture passage that proclaims that being lukewarm toward God and His church is sufficient. In fact it says in Revelations that the lukewarm will be spit out.

Still, there are at least three overwhelming truths that supersede all of this:

1. We don’t know who will be saved
2. We all have the ability to be saved if we love God and neighbor fully
3. God will judge our hearts when we die with perfect accuracy.

 

[paul_c]

I have not read the entire thread, however, this topic brought up a question I’ve been thinking about regarding, confession, salvation, and damnation. If everyone who is in mortal sin confesses before death, (on their deathbed, say), then they are saved from damnation…and even if one is incapacitated, Extreme Unction (Anointing of the Sick) also forgives sin, correct?

So…if someone never went to confession their entire life, but is on their deathbed and receives the Anointing of the Sick…they are saved? Correct? It begs the question to those who are lukewarm in their faith, as to why they should go to confession once a month, if they can just do it once on their deathbed, with the same efficacy, no? In any case, it would lead me to believe that a lot of sinners are saved through the Mercy of the Lord in the Sacrament of Reconciliation and the Anointing of the Sick. Any thoughts?

God bless.

-Paul

You would be correct in saying that you can be saved on your deathbed by annointing of the sick.

Sadly,I think you would be incorrect in assuming that a lot of people get this sacrament. This would require at least a couple of things to happen.

1. you need to have access to a priest when close to death
2. you need to desire to have the sacrament if you are in the position to refuse it
3. if you are incapacitated, you need to be in the presence of someone who wants you to receive the sacrament and can make the arrangements for you.

Now if you lead a sacramental life as does your family, there is a reasonable chance you will get this sacrament. If you do not lead a sacramental life and neither do your associates, the chances that you will suddenly be anointed on your deathbed are probably remote. Possible yes, something you can count on, no.

 

[Pete_Holter]

Nice try, Pete. You stand by your view, and I’ll stand by mine; i.e., that it does no good to speculate the numbers of either saved or damned, as he emphacized in his conclusion. Can we agree to end this now?

My sister. The LORD be with you.

In Christ,
Pete

 

[Sirach2]

I think its perhaps helpful to sum up this thread with comments about the good faith on both sides of this debate

→ Those that advocate a position that many will be saved do so because they are afraid to demotivate people from seeking heaven with the thought that few are saved.

I do not remember seeing anyone that held this position, Paul. You may be reading into this due to personal bias toward the next point.

–>Those that advocate a position that few are saved are attempting to save those from complacency that think they have done enough to be saved by simply being average.

I favor the second view, simply because there is no scripture passage that proclaims that being lukewarm toward God and His church is sufficient. In fact it says in Revelations that the lukewarm will be spit out.

Of course! You guys are avid scripture researchers and can prove your viewpoint with them. That’s what Protestants do. Yet not a single person in this entire thread has provided a teaching from Holy Mother Church that says “few will be saved.” Let’s not rely on St. Leonard, who is not the Magisterium.

Still, there are at least three overwhelming truths that supersede all of this:

**1) We don’t know who will be saved. Amen! **
2) We all have the ability to be saved if we love God and neighbor fully Seconded.
3) God will judge our hearts when we die with perfect accuracy. He alone is judge!

 

[brb3]

I think its perhaps helpful to sum up this thread with comments about the good faith on both sides of this debate

→ Those that advocate a position that many will be saved do so because they are afraid to demotivate people from seeking heaven with the thought that few are saved.

–>Those that advocate a position that few are saved are attempting to save those from complacency that think they have done enough to be saved by simply being average.

I favor the second view, simply because there is no scripture passage that proclaims that being lukewarm toward God and His church is sufficient. In fact it says in Revelations that the lukewarm will be spit out.

Still, there are at least three overwhelming truths that supersede all of this:

1. We don’t know who will be saved
2. We all have the ability to be saved if we love God and neighbor fully
3. God will judge our hearts when we die with perfect accuracy.

Pete …

Point 2 above is key. Christ’s nature would not allow him to reject one who consistently comes in prayer before Him, begging for Mercy and Graces sufficient unto Salvation. Provided, we serve him, praise him, confess sins, follow Beatitudes, & imitate Christ in ever regard …follow in baptism & confirmation, and testify to his being Son of God & our Salvation …and never lose hope, continuing in perseverance !

This is a tall order, but it is possible…so said Paul, Mary, and the 12, plus all ECF’s, Popes, and all Angels & Saints…and most especially, so said Christ to us in Scripture!!

 

[PJD1987]

You would be correct in saying that you can be saved on your deathbed by annointing of the sick.

Sadly,I think you would be incorrect in assuming that a lot of people get this sacrament. This would require at least a couple of things to happen.

1. you need to have access to a priest when close to death
2. you need to desire to have the sacrament if you are in the position to refuse it
3. if you are incapacitated, you need to be in the presence of someone who wants you to receive the sacrament and can make the arrangements for you.

Now if you lead a sacramental life as does your family, there is a reasonable chance you will get this sacrament. If you do not lead a sacramental life and neither do your associates, the chances that you will suddenly be anointed on your deathbed are probably remote. Possible yes, something you can count on, no.

Valid points. Thanks for your response! I’m thinking mostly of the “cultural Catholics” who do continue to follow through with the sacraments as sort of a “family tradition” or “rite of passage” with no connection to the actual faith and spirituality they entail. Having been one of those formerly, and having a family that fits that description, I hold out hope for them and all in that position. However, we must work out our salvation in fear and trembling. If we live our lives as if we are not guaranteed salvation, and strive towards it always, we cannot fall victim to complacency, and thus will make frequent use of the Sacraments to one day be with God face to face.

God bless,
Paul

 

[Sirach2]

So…if someone never went to confession their entire life, but is on their deathbed and receives the Anointing of the Sick…they are saved? Correct? It begs the question to those who are lukewarm in their faith, as to why they should go to confession once a month, if they can just do it once on their deathbed, with the same efficacy, no? In any case, it would lead me to believe that a lot of sinners are saved through the Mercy of the Lord in the Sacrament of Reconciliation and the Anointing of the Sick. Any thoughts?

The problem with this idea is that nobody knows whether they will be fortunate enough to receive the sacrament on their death bed. It would be pesumption in the worst degree to rely on this. Many die in isolated accidents without a priest to anoint them. One needs to be prepared at all times, like the wise virgins.

.

 

[Pete_Holter]

Persistence is the key. One big help, is saying a prayer for grace of Perseverance! I do this several times yearly. How many times have I gotten sidetracked on cares of this life … and suddenly be reminded of my folly and dire straits. If we ask to be reminded of our grave peril, and always reminded of it before we go over the cliff, …God will answer those prayers. The Good Shepherd never gives up on us …and always seeks out the lost & strays from flock !!

Greetings in Christ, BRB!

Amen! The Prayer of Saint Bonaventure is a new favorite prayer of mine. Have you seen it?

*Dearest Lord Jesus, pierce the inmost depths of my being with the sweet and wholesome pang of Thy love, with true and tranquil and most holy apostolic charity, so that from sheer melting love and desire of Thee my soul may ever faint with longing, yearning for Thee and for Thy dwelling-place, asking only to be released from the flesh and to be with Thee.

Grant that my soul my hunger for Thee, Who art the Bread of Angels, the food of holy souls, our daily, supernatural bread, all sweetness and delight to the taste. Let my heart ever hunger for Thee and feed upon Thee, Whom the Angels yearn to look upon, and let the depths of my being be filled with Thy sweet savor; let me ever thirst for Thee, Who art the source of life, source of wisdom and knowledge, source of eternal light, flood-tide of pleasure, God’s own treasure-house. Let me ever desire Thee; seek Thee and find Thee; have Thee for my goal and my achievement; think and speak of Thee only, doing all that I do for the honor and glory of Thy Name, humbly and prudently, with love and delight, with ready goodwill, and with perseverance to the end.

Be Thou ever, Thou only, my hope and all my trust, my treasure and pleasure, my joy and delight, my rest, peace, and quiet, my sweet and delicious fragrance, my food and support, my refuge and help, my wisdom, my heritage of wealth, my very own. Let my heart and soul be set on Thee, firmly and immovably rooted in Thee henceforth and forever. Amen.*

 

[PeaceInChrist]

You speak with passion but like in all things, balance is required. As you say, we SHOULD preach of Jesus’ mercy and love but this needs to be balanced by preaching also of Jesus’ just judgement. Just as counseling the doubtful is a work of mercy, so too is instructing the ignorant. It is an injustice to tell a sinner that his/her sins don’t matter because everyone is going to heaven. I would not doubt that there are many complacent souls in Hell. It is also an injustice to cause despair because God’s mercy is available to all those that ask through the sacraments.

While it is impossible to know who is in heaven or hell or the relative percentage, the question is really a proxy for the balance between justice and mercy.

And if you read what I wrote, I never once said that sin was something to be neglected or that sins didn’t matter. In fact, I even wrote in my points that sin should be explained, along with the reasoning behind it. This has nothing to do with speculating on how many will be saved. Like I said before, it is perhaps one of the most prideful things I’ve seen devout Catholics here participate in. Christ told us all we need to know about who will be saved. All other speculation is meaningless. He will decide the rest. We must do our best to live as He commanded. Taking His judgement into our hands, or speculating on the end result of this world, is extremely pointless, and quite beyond our place in this world or the next.

And while I agree that the dangers of sin must be preached, it is much better to explain it with reason. I have seen the ‘fires of hell’ preached to many people, and it is often preached as one of, or THE, main point in avoiding sin (yet this is not the main reason, the main reason is for love of God). I have seen many of these fall away. Their relationships with Christ were built on fear. On the other hand, rarely do I ever see those who genuinely love Christ fail to continue in faith. We must emphasize His love on the Cross, and not His judgement. Those who love Him will reject sin. Those who fear Him may also reject Him. I have seen this so many times.

Ultimately, we are all walking a tightrope. It does good to explain what happens if we fall off, and why we should avoid falling off. It’s a good idea to explain the reason that the fall will kill us. This is necessary so that we know the dangers and are not reckless. Those who are told why we are on the tightrope, what is on the end of the tightrope, and that we must believe we will make it, will keep them more motivated to walk it. Those who are told over and over that most people fall off and what happens to those that fall, will be in constant fear falling off, will likely lose focus on the reason why they are walking and where they are going, and may even give up (fall).

Which is better? I see the former walk with joy. I see the latter fall all too often. You tell me…

 

[CaptFun]

CaptFun responds in RED

“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.-Matthew 7:13-14 These are the words of Christ. Hence true. Sentence one is declarative and an advisory command. Note that “enter” requires a “faithful work” on the part of the believer. A theme of Jesus’ throughout this astounding 29 verse chapter.

Do these verses mean a “few” will be saved? Salvation might be another matter or it may be EXACTLY what Jesus is talking about – you are wise to ask this question Brian.

The critcal words these verses use are: Enter. Narrow vs. Wide. Road to destruction vs. Road that leads to life. TWICE He mentions the gate (narrow, small) and twice the word narrow (gate, road). The double warning of DO THIS and DON’T DO that advise the apostles and disciples against being foolishly libertine en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertine as in the “broad road” they might follow or recommend.

The word “narrow” in our time is often used as a negative - as in narrow-minded. Jesus uses it as a positive. Rather like “narrow down” and constrict your own “near occasions of sin” and you will be more likely not to be harmed by sin. We may not see God face to face now - but He has spoken to us and given us graces to “seek him”. We will more surely find Him when we narrow down what we allow ourselves when a moral choice confronts us.

In deductive reasoning - narrowing down gets one closer to the truth and further from a chaotic “who can know” without even seeking the truth.

In Mathematics “narrowing things down” or reaching the correct answer through a process which uses deduction and other methods for determining truth - comes into play in things like home construction. Later in this Chapter Jesus compares two types of homes. One built on rock and one built on sand. Each experiences a storm. One stands, one is destroyed.

It seems the Catholic Church says many will be saved Yes and scripture too. Many is not necessarily MOST. Comparatively few is still “few” in a sense.

and none are even pronounced to be in hell. YES! The Church canonizes some as good examples of following Christ. It has not officially condemned to hell anyone.

It must admit there IS hell. And that some go there. After all it’s what Jesus died to save us from. It is not the Church’s job to send souls to hell or desire it (or agree with Satan in any other matter either).

The Church is God’s instrument of Salvation. Presumably Noah did not have a plank on the ark (Peter compares the Church to Noah’s ark) to push people off – for it isn’t mentioned.

The Church excommunicates some - but a dire warning to a soul in danger of hell is a mercy to those who repent. It can lift excommunications too. It prays for the holy souls in Purgatory - that they may quickly be purged and enjoy the full fruits of their salvation.

Thanks!
Brian

Thank you Brian. Jesus’ warnings do not imply that HE can’t save even those who have walked that road to destruction or had their house destroyed. He cast seven demons from (SAINT!) Mary Magdalen. But He’d save us a lot of trouble on our way – and we’d be better off not tempting fate at every turn in the name of spiritual license
and our own pleasure when moral choices confront us.

RECOMMENDED TO ALL: Read Matthew 7 in its entirety. It starts OUT with the “Judge not … lest ye be judged” verse that SOME would interpret in a broad, wide way:

– that goes well beyond what Jesus proposes later regarding counsel
– and onto what looks very much like that gate and road to destruction He warns against
– in it’s embrace of “lukewarm to non-existant” defense of morals by anyone
– through their “not so narrow” interpretation of Matthew 7’s first verses.

 

[Sirach2]

We must emphasize His love on the Cross, and not His judgement. Those who love Him will reject sin. Those who fear Him may also reject Him. I have seen this so many times.

Which is better? I see the former walk with joy. I see the latter fall all too often. You tell me…

Dear One,
I think you are preaching to the choir here. Their mind is made up, no sound theological reasoning wanted - period.
Nice post, BTW.

 

[paul_c]

And if you read what I wrote, I never once said that sin was something to be neglected or that sins didn’t matter. In fact, I even wrote in my points that sin should be explained, along with the reasoning behind it. This has nothing to do with speculating on how many will be saved. Like I said before, it is perhaps one of the most prideful things I’ve seen devout Catholics here participate in. Christ told us all we need to know about who will be saved. All other speculation is meaningless. He will decide the rest. We must do our best to live as He commanded. Taking His judgement into our hands, or speculating on the end result of this world, is extremely pointless, and quite beyond our place in this world or the next.

And while I agree that the dangers of sin must be preached, it is much better to explain it with reason. I have seen the ‘fires of hell’ preached to many people, and it is often preached as one of, or THE, main point in avoiding sin (yet this is not the main reason, the main reason is for love of God). I have seen many of these fall away. Their relationships with Christ were built on fear. On the other hand, rarely do I ever see those who genuinely love Christ fail to continue in faith. We must emphasize His love on the Cross, and not His judgement. Those who love Him will reject sin. Those who fear Him may also reject Him. I have seen this so many times.

Ultimately, we are all walking a tightrope. It does good to explain what happens if we fall off, and why we should avoid falling off. It’s a good idea to explain the reason that the fall will kill us. This is necessary so that we know the dangers and are not reckless. Those who are told why we are on the tightrope, what is on the end of the tightrope, and that we must believe we will make it, will keep them more motivated to walk it. Those who are told over and over that most people fall off and what happens to those that fall, will be in constant fear falling off, will likely lose focus on the reason why they are walking and where they are going, and may even give up (fall).

Which is better? I see the former walk with joy. I see the latter fall all too often. You tell me…

Well we certainly don’t want to set the expectation that everyone falls off the tightrope. but we also must balance that with the realism that if you do fall off the rope you will die. So the church teaches us how to walk the rope successfully

 

[juliamajor]

After a little follow-up on your post, Pete, I think it’s a good idea to consider the Site Review by CatholicCulture, who has given a “red - danger” rating. It is interesting to note the reasons as demonstrated in their “weakness” report. Maybe you were unaware.

In my book, anyone who rejects the Church’s mass, distorts Her teaching on salvation, and issues blanket statements who is going to hell, is not worth a second glance to anything else they have to say. Who knows if the document from St. Leonard is even valid?

These two paragraphs are quite meaningful from the alleged sermon:

Followed by this statement finalizing his conclusion, **“What is the use of knowing whether few or many are saved?” **

---

.

Amen, Sirach

 

[PeaceInChrist]

Well we certainly don’t want to set the expectation that everyone falls off the tightrope. but we also must balance that with the realism that if you do fall off the rope you will die. So the church teaches us how to walk the rope successfully

I believe that I quite literally said that what happens when we fall off must be explained, along with why. That is not an issue of mine. Yet others in this thread seem to be putting the Love of Christ on the same level as His judgement. He is the Lord of Mercy before He is the Just Judge. He didn’t die on the Cross so that He could judge us all. He could always do that. We are all deserving of death. This is clear.

Emphasizing His love for us is far more effective (and important) than putting judgement on an equal footing. We are told to proclaim the Good News. We are told to love others as He has loved us. We are told that faith, hope, and love abide, and the greatest is love. Fear is nowhere in these three great gifts. Perfect love casts OUT all fear. Do you seriously believe that instilling fear first and with equal vigor will make love stronger? Or perhaps it is the other way around? Maybe love of Christ will also lead to a healthy fear of hell and disdain of sin? NOT the other way around.

And note that NOT ONCE did I say sin is unimportant or that it won’t lead to death or that it should not be explained. Rather, I am saying that a real love of Christ will lead to healthy fear of hell and disdain of sin. It will also lead people to reach out to Christ for sanctification, rather than relying on fear to keep people from sin. The latter is ineffective. I have seen it so many times. Please believe me. I am involved in missionary work, and I can tell you that fear is not the best way to evangelize. Leave that to the street-corner Calvinists…

Fear for the souls of others (resulting from love) CAN, however, be an excellent motivator in getting people to evangelize those they love… Yet even then, it is love at the root, only with a more dire response.

 

[paul_c]

I believe that I quite literally said that what happens when we fall off must be explained, along with why. That is not an issue of mine. Yet others in this thread seem to be putting the Love of Christ on the same level as His judgement. He is the Lord of Mercy before He is the Just Judge. He didn’t die on the Cross so that He could judge us all. He could always do that. We are all deserving of death. This is clear.

Emphasizing His love for us is far more effective (and important) than putting judgement on an equal footing. We are told to proclaim the Good News. We are told to love others as He has loved us. We are told that faith, hope, and love abide, and the greatest is love. Fear is nowhere in these three great gifts. Perfect love casts OUT all fear. Do you seriously believe that instilling fear first and with equal vigor will make love stronger? Or perhaps it is the other way around? Maybe love of Christ will also lead to a healthy fear of hell and disdain of sin? NOT the other way around.

And note that NOT ONCE did I say sin is unimportant or that it won’t lead to death or that it should not be explained. Rather, I am saying that a real love of Christ will lead to healthy fear of hell and disdain of sin. It will also lead people to reach out to Christ for sanctification, rather than relying on fear to keep people from sin. The latter is ineffective. I have seen it so many times. Please believe me. I am involved in missionary work, and I can tell you that fear is not the best way to evangelize. Leave that to the street-corner Calvinists…

Fear for the souls of others (resulting from love) CAN, however, be an excellent motivator in getting people to evangelize those they love… Yet even then, it is love at the root, only with a more dire response.

This was a good post. You make a series of good points. Salvation is indeed rooted entirely in love. And love is the selfless giving of oneself to God and neighbor without expecting anything in return. If you can’t learn to serve, you won’t get to heaven.

Ii will quibble with you slightly. I don’t think a real love of Christ leads to a fear of Hell. I think it only leads to a disdain of sin and a desire to do Jesus’ will.

I also think you made an excellent point about the use of fear of Hell in motivating evangelization of those we encounter. And you are right that this is born out of love. You are probably right that this is the only legitimate use of fear in the economy of salvation.
I need to think about that some more.

Thank you for your insight

 

[PeaceInChrist]

Ii will quibble with you slightly. I don’t think a real love of Christ leads to a fear of Hell. I think it only leads to a disdain of sin and a desire to do Jesus’ will.

In ‘healthy’ fear, I only mean the fear that Saints have shown. Not the fear that causes us to tremble, but the fear that makes us reject outright the idea of sin, the discomforting thought of the horrible result of our willing action taken against God, the concept of the loss of His promise, and strengthening of the desire for Him, so much so that to think of anything else results in that discomfort that we speak of in the Act of Contrition (which sums up perfectly the contrition we should feel):

“Oh my God, I am heartily sorry for offending thee, because I fear the loss of heaven and the pains of hell, but most of all because I love thee, My God, who are all good and deserving of all my love…”

Perfect contrition is our aim on this earth, by the grace of God. So much so that we will detest sin so much for love of Him that we should never sin again. So we pray and wait in joyful hope…

And I do agree. For a soul sanctified by the grace of God, like the great Saints in heaven, fear of hell is cast out by love of God. This is where we seek to be. Someday…

 

[pgnat1]

Here is Fr. Barron’s take on the subject:

youtube.com/watch?v=dmsa0sg4Od4

 

[paul_c]

In ‘healthy’ fear, I only mean the fear that Saints have shown. Not the fear that causes us to tremble, but the fear that makes us reject outright the idea of sin, the discomforting thought of the horrible result of our willing action taken against God, the concept of the loss of His promise, and strengthening of the desire for Him, so much so that to think of anything else results in that discomfort that we speak of in the Act of Contrition (which sums up perfectly the contrition we should feel):

“Oh my God, I am heartily sorry for offending thee, because I fear the loss of heaven and the pains of hell, but most of all because I love thee, My God, who are all good and deserving of all my love…”

Perfect contrition is our aim on this earth, by the grace of God. So much so that we will detest sin so much for love of Him that we should never sin again. So we pray and wait in joyful hope…

And I do agree. For a soul sanctified by the grace of God, like the great Saints in heaven, fear of hell is cast out by love of God. This is where we seek to be. Someday…

I don’t think its only the great Saints in heaven. I honestly have no fear of Hell. I don’t even think about it normally, unless it gets prompted by someone else. In fact, I’ve never heard a Catholic ask the question, " are you saved?" I think we all implicitly understand that it is not our s to judge and that if we chose heaven through our actions, it will be there for us.

 

[CaptFun]

Here is Fr. Barron’s take on the subject:

youtube.com/watch?v=dmsa0sg4Od4

I generally love Fr. Barron’s insights and teachings. And I enjoyed this clip too. But he wasn’t really speaking on THIS text as much as on the broader subject.

I’d like to hear what he had to say on some of the specifics.

Namely regarding his recounting of “we might reasonably hope that all would be saved …”
(which does recall THIS scripture):

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord does not delay his promise, as some regard “delay,” but he is patient with you, not wishing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

Even here it seems that “repentence” involving the free will of the one in jeopardy of perishing is necessary given Peter’s words.

The idea that some souls “lock themselves out of heaven” by resisting or opposing Christ’s given graces is interesting too.

Here clarification would be needed or distinctions drawn to better understand Jesus’ words
“Depart from me … you evildoers” from Matthew.

Matt 25:45 He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’

46 And** these will go off to eternal punishment,** but the righteous to eternal life."

In that text it would seem the evildoers were being sent out of heaven by Jesus. Much as the rebellious angels were cast out of heaven because there was no more place for them.

The punishment is eternal. Is that a sentence from which no further repentance can save one nor sin can be forgiven? Well … my sentiments are with Fr. Barron but these words of Jesus seem pretty final.

Or can “these will go off …” mean that self-locking out of heaven proposed?

Since we don’t know everything we can hope for God’s boundless mercy to prevail over justice – or rather should we desire the time where justice is fulfilled and mercy can be given eternally to those who have paid “the last penny” of their just punishment?

Revelation 12:7 Then war broke out in heaven; Michael and his angels battled against the dragon. The dragon and its angels fought back,

8 but they did not prevail and** there was no longer any place for them in heaven.**

9 The huge dragon, the ancient serpent, 9 who is called the Devil and Satan, who deceived the whole world, was thrown down to earth, and its angels were thrown down with it.

10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: "Now have salvation and power come, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Anointed.** For the accuser of our brothers is cast out,** who accuses them before our God day and night.

Of course EVERYONE being saved LOOKS like a contradiction to Jesus’ many/few counsel at first. Though Jesus’ counsel was to choose good over evil (and take a narrow view versus a broad view of the latter - or suffer destruction).

In Luke Jesus takes this theoretical question about the number of the saved (many of few?) and redirects the questioners to tend to their own souls … “Strive to enter …”