A gentle correction on what is necessary to be a Christian

[Eucharisted]

I know that some non-Catholic Christians say “it’s not about faith/religion, it’s about your relationship with Jesus.”

I would like to show, in as gentle a way as possible, how this is not so correct, using the light of the gospel.

Jesus had twelve Apostles, and a number of disciples. He had some female disciples, too, which was considered countercultural in that time. As the gospel relates, his Apostles had a very hard time understanding His words, while His enemies knew exactly what He was talking about. On the night of Passover, He was betrayed by one of His Apostles, Judas. Another Apostle, Peter, denied Him three times, saying He didn’t know the Lord. (Remember what Jesus taught his disciples? “He who denies Me, I will deny before My Father.” My paraphrase).

Judas, after betraying Jesus, repented of what he had done. Though he was a thief - he stole money - he was angry at himself for what he had done: handing God over to mere mortals to be killed! But the apostle trembled before God’s Justice. He could not believe God would give him forgiveness for killing His own Son. So he committed suicide, hanging himself by a rope, and his guts spilled out. Because he had committed the unforgiveable sin, he went to hell.

Peter, after denying Jesus, repented of what he had done. Though he was a sinner - as he himself admitted when God called him - he was deeply saddened that he had boasted of his righteousness at the Passover meal and had been humiliated, and that he, in the height of righteousness, had denied the Lord not once but three times. By all accounts, he should have despaired as Judas had, yet the Lord showed him mercy, turning to look at him as He was taken away to be crucified, and Peter, griefed, began to weep over his sins.

Both Apostles, along with all the Apostles, were very close to the Lord. Judas had to be very close, because he was able to steal from Jesus’ money bag, the money which He used to give to the poor. And Peter was very close to the Lord because Jesus had appointed him the leader of His followers.

Now, if Judas had gone to hell, then how can some say that “it’s not about faith/religion, it’s about your relationship with Jesus.” The gospel clearly shows this is not true. By contrast, what is shown what is necessary in life and in order to attain eternal life is love. “He who obeys My Commandments love Me.” And to the question of what was necessary to attain eternal life, Jesus replied that it was necessary to love God and to love one another, citing the two most important Commandments in Judaism.

Now, if some non-Catholic Christians said, “It’s not about faith/religion, it’s about how you relate to Jesus,” that would be correct. Because God became man so that man might become like God, it is how we relate to - are like - God that counts in this world. “Be holy, just as your Father in Heaven is holy.”

 

[look3467]

I would like to show, in as gentle a way as possible, how this is not so correct, using the light of the gospel. >>>Eucharisted

Your gentleness is a sign of Him whose Spirit indwells you.

To use Catholic and non-Catholic together in the same sentence with the word Christian says allot about your understanding.

Religion and faith in a religion is what divides us.

There are many different religions whose faith is in how they interpret how they perceive God.

If, each of those religions practiced one thing, (Godly Love)then all of them would be as one in Spirit.

Now, using Judas as an opposite of Peter portrays the two different belief systems, now termed religion.

Yet, both are equally instrumental in the accomplishment of Jesus’ mission.

Judas, representing the old beliefs, as in the Jewish laws and practices, also being true to them, was doing the Fathers biting
. He was a leader to, as was Peter, in that he led them to Jesus.

Judas led the old belief system to Jesus to be crucified as a new one in Peter was in the mill of being created.

The center of the “cross” between the old and the new.

While Peter represented the new, but not before the cross, but afterwords when empowered by the Holy Spirit, Judas’ had to die.
Judas and all the high priests were sacrificed as Jesus’ offering, or as a lamb of sacrifice to.
Judas, though for many maybe hard to understand, is with Jesus in heaven.

The new, which was a new concept was introduced by the Apostles after the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, to include both the Jew and the gentile.

Jew and Gentile,both radically opposing beliefs are by Christ brought together as one as He and the Father are one.

What is that one thing that binds a marriage between two opposites, though different, yet able to love one another and work as one?

A Catholic, a non-Catholic, a Jew and any other religious belief can be bound in marriage, as one, with love.

Judas, Peter both were bound with love for God, yet both having different views of God.

I say he who has understanding, will find the common bond in a marriage between two different faiths, religions, to be the center of his faith, and that being love.

The walk then is not in a religious practice, but in a religious love for God, that manifests itself in the walk.

Yes it’s about a relationship with Jesus, that is, if you are privileged to know Him.

But if not, it’s still about Him since He is the only hope for mankind, though many may not know it.

God is viewed in many different ways throughout all of humanity and yet, many have been model believers in God, in which ever way they knew about Him, as like Judas and all the Jewish High priests.

You and I, though having differing views, are in common bond, married to Jesus in communion with Him.

May we then tell the world of what a wonderful unifying love we have in our spouse Jesus, rather than accent what is not.

peace>>>AJ

 

[Sabbath_Keeper]

Very well put Eu,

However, I would like to point out that for many of us who believe, it is a matter of all three of the prerequesites that makes us knowledgable of Christ, our relationship to him, our faith and our religion (the practice of faith and interaction of our relationship). These cannot be seperated. Try as some may, it is not possible nor practicle.

To the other poster,

Jesus said that he was the truth the way and the light, no one would enter the kingdom save they come through him. We are also reminded that ALL the world would have an opportunity to know him before final judgment came about. There is only one way and that way is narrow. From you post it appears that you believe that there are multiple ways as long as we believe in God. It is not enough to believe, for even the demons of Satan and Satan himself believes. We are to take action, confess our sins, accept that Christ is who we are told he is and repent of our sin, committing ourselves to Godly living.

 

[look3467]

To the other poster,>>>Sabbath Keeper

You may address me as AJ, or as look3467, thank you.

Jesus said that he was the truth the way and the light, no one would enter the kingdom save they come through him.>>>Sabbath Keeper

That is a true statement that was addressed to The Jewish Nation in order to cut them off (the head) and become the tail as Jesus becomes the head and not the tail.

Application of that verse is taken by mankind to divide, to segregate the deemed righteous from the unrighteous.

When the real meaning is God making a statement to all mankind, that He alone is the Savior of all mankind and besides Him, there is no other.

That statement is all inclusive because when the Jewish nation was cut off from the inheritance, the Gentiles were grafted in to make of twain one, the one, the inheritance of all there is, is one in love.

From you post it appears that you believe that there are multiple ways as long as we believe in God. It is not enough to believe, for even the demons of Satan and Satan himself believes.>>>Sabbath Keeper

It may appear to you that way, but Jesus looks at us not from what it appears to mankind, but how Jesus looks at the hearts of mankind to find a place where He can rest His head. (Government)

Belief, and faith in Him is all that is needed, for from that point does the flesh begin to conform and to the walk with God.

To require mankind to conform to our understanding is to segregate, to divide and not comply with love thy neighbor commandment.

We are to proclaim the love of God by our walk and not by our judgment of what we may think God should be to all.

To truly have a clearer understanding of Gods work, one needs to have a clear picture of Gods view of mankind and not mankind’s view of what Gods view is.

The Sabbath is the day of rest of which Father God rested after His work of creation, and the Sabbath is also the rest of Jesus after His work of recreation and the Sabbath is our rest after we cease from our works and rest in Jesus.

Jesus becomes our rest from our work for our salvation at the beginning of the new week, the first day of all creation.

peace>>>AJ

 

[Sabbath_Keeper]

You may address me as AJ, or as look3467, thank you.

Thanks AJ

This is so long I have to break it up into two posts.

Part 1

That is a true statement that was addressed to The Jewish Nation in order to cut them off (the head) and become the tail as Jesus becomes the head and not the tail.

I don’t see the statement as being directed at the Jewish Nation, for Jesus was speaking to his Disciples, I see the statement more as being directed at the entire human race, for it is for the entire human race that he hung upon the cross. Accepting the truth of his sacrifice is paramount to our relationship with him.

Application of that verse is taken by mankind to divide, to segregate the deemed righteous from the unrighteous.

It is not this statement nor the application of this statement that segregates the righteous from the unrighteous, it is the denial of the truth of who Christ was, his ultimate sacrifice for us, and a continuance in sin. Paul tells us that there is “one” faith, “one” baptism, “one” church, to go further we can apporperately state that there is also “ONE” savior, that savior is Jesus, the son of God, Emmanuel, also know as the Christ.

When the real meaning is God making a statement to all mankind, that He alone is the Savior of all mankind and besides Him, there is no other.

That statement is all inclusive because when the Jewish nation was cut off from the inheritance, the Gentiles were grafted in to make of twain one, the one, the inheritance of all there is, is one in love.

When the statement we are discussing was made only the Jewish Nation was being sought by Christ. It was only to them that the truth was being give. This continued even 3 1/2 years after he was crucified by the Apostles and a multitude of converts. The Jews were not cut off as the first Christians WERE Jews. When later, after Philip was stoned, the Lord sent the Apostles to the Gentiles, and at this time Saul (who became Paul). We oft forget that the Jews were not grafted into the Christianity, but that the Gentiles were grafted into the Jewish Nation (Israel). We are adopted children. Let us not forget, that as easily as we are grafted in, we can be pruned out, as were the Jews that did not accept the truth nor their messiah.

It may appear to you that way, but Jesus looks at us not from what it appears to mankind, but how Jesus looks at the hearts of mankind to find a place where He can rest His head. (Government)

Belief, and faith in Him is all that is needed, for from that point does the flesh begin to conform and to the walk with God.

What I see in these statements is that no action is necessary for salvation. So show of faith or belief. But I will reiterate what James wrote, “show me your works by your faith and I will show you my faith by my works.” These go hand in hand. Although, works are not necessary for salvation, we must remember that we WILL be judged by our works, for faith with out works is a dead faith and works without faith are empty works. So to say that all that is needed is to believe and have faith is a false ascertion.

To require mankind to conform to our understanding is to segregate, to divide and not comply with love thy neighbor commandment.

Is it segregation to “obey the commandments of God and have the testemony of Jesus Christ”? Remember, Jesus himself stated that he had not come to bring peace to the world. He knew that what he brought to give man would be divisive, that it would turn close relative against one another. Because to accept the truth that God gives us mean that we have to set aside the things of this world, which many refuse to do because they cannot understand nor accept the greater things of glory. It is not man that requires conformity, it is Christ. Straight is the way and narrow the path that leads to righteousness. Sounds like a call to conformity to me.

 

[Sabbath_Keeper]

Part 2

We are to proclaim the love of God by our walk and not by our judgment of what we may think God should be to all.

I think there are many who misunderstand a plea from others to conform to the truth as a passing of judgment. I ask, if you were walking in the middle of a busy highway would it be “judgment” for someone to warn you of your danger or would it be earnest concern for your safety that they give you warning?

To truly have a clearer understanding of Gods work, one needs to have a clear picture of Gods view of mankind and not mankind’s view of what Gods view is.

You’ve got to be kidding!! If God did not want man to have an understanding of his view he would not have given us his word, the prophets, the judges, the nation of Isreal, HIS SON, or the Apostles and many many others that came after him. It is true that men distort their perceptions of God, however, the Word never fails and he has given his word to us through the centuries of writtings that are today available to us in more accurate a way then can be explained by science. We understand the works of God through his word. Now if you are saying we should view the world through God’s eyes, that can only be done by accepting who his son was and being filled with the Holy Spirit. It takes prayer, study and self-sacrifice to attain this goal.

The Sabbath is the day of rest of which Father God rested after His work of creation, and the Sabbath is also the rest of Jesus after His work of recreation and the Sabbath is our rest after we cease from our works and rest in Jesus.

Jesus becomes our rest from our work for our salvation at the beginning of the new week, the first day of all creation.

peace>>>AJ

I’m not sure this has anything to do with the OP’s original post and it probably has more to do with my handle. Therefore, comment will be held on this at the moment as it is not pertainent to this thread.

 

[look3467]

I don’t see the statement as being directed at the Jewish Nation, for Jesus was speaking to his Disciples, I see the statement more as being directed at the entire human race, for it is for the entire human race that he hung upon the cross. Accepting the truth of his sacrifice is paramount to our relationship with him.>>>Sabbathkeeper

True, because that’s the way it is perceived and because that’s the way it is.
But if one is to see from God’s point of view, one will see a different take in that God was doing a work, something that mankind could not readily understand.

We can now see the picture clearly, based on His completed work in Jesus first, the Apostles second, and the compilation of the written works, the bible.

It is not this statement nor the application of this statement that segregates the righteous from the unrighteous, it is the denial of the truth of who Christ was, his ultimate sacrifice for us, and a continuance in sin. Paul tells us that there is “one” faith, “one” baptism, “one” church, to go further we can apporperately state that there is also “ONE” savior, that savior is Jesus, the son of God, Emmanuel, also know as the Christ.>>>Sabbathkeeper

The picture that is not seen here is the work that God was accomplishing in Jesus.The Jewish nation was the first born, (The head, or over Gods affairs in this world) meaning they were sole inheritors of Gods kingdom (as like Esau) while the rest of the wold was lost. (as like Jacob.)

Jesus(Jacob) stole their birthright (Esau’s) as like a thief in the night.

By so doing, Gd was saving not only the Jews but the rest of the world as well.

Uniting into one spirit, one faith by reconciling the world unto Himself.

Should we understand the impact of that, or should we see the picture clearly, we would understand that there are no divisions amongst all of us except for what and how we are led to worship.

I see clearly that is why I can speak and discuss the word of God freely with any belief system without discriminating or critiquing others belief.

What I can do is explain things as I have come to see them and allow the Spirit of God to work as He deems appropriate.

The Jews were not cut off as the first Christians WERE Jews.>>>Sabbathkeeper

Look at that same statement spiritually, and you will see the Esau, Jacob similitude.

What I see in these statements is that no action is necessary for salvation. So show of faith or belief. But I will reiterate what James wrote, “show me your works by your faith and I will show you my faith by my works.” These go hand in hand. Although, works are not necessary for salvation, we must remember that we WILL be judged by our works, for faith with out works is a dead faith and works without faith are empty works. So to say that all that is needed is to believe and have faith is a false ascertion.>>>Sabbathkeeper

The first part of your quote is correct, no action is necessary for salvation in that Jesus did the work for us, a done deal.
Only God can do that.

To confirm that one need but to look at all the souls that preceded the coming of Jesus, that had no clue who Jesus was or even had the chance to hear the word as you and I can today.

Those souls where kept in a holding place until Jesus would visit them to liberate them, and of which He did, when Jesus was sentenced to hell and there revealed Himself to them.

That picture is not clearly seen, therefore can not be clearly understood.

When we, as modern folk, have in our possession the word of God and fail to act upon it, we do ourselves a disservice, in that instead of being liberated, we remain in the original condition, which s lost.

But, when we come to the knowledge of(as in the tree of life) we come to understand that God saved us an not we who saves us.

When that happens, our spirits are reborn instantly, spiritually,which then our physical walk begins to reflect the change that is in our hearts.

James does confirm that by indicating that the walk should reflect what has already transpired in the heart, and not the other way around.

Is it segregation to “obey the commandments of God and have the testemony of Jesus Christ”? Remember, Jesus himself stated that he had not come to bring peace to the world. He knew that what he brought to give man would be divisive, that it would turn close relative against one another. Because to accept the truth that God gives us mean that we have to set aside the things of this world, which many refuse to do because they cannot understand nor accept the greater things of glory. It is not man that requires conformity, it is Christ. Straight is the way and narrow the path that leads to righteousness. Sounds like a call to conformity to me.>>>Sabbathkeeper

Yes, in our personal walk, we segregate ourselves from the things of the world according to what the Holy Spirit gives us direction.
But to require others to meet he same requirements as we ourselves are experiencing is to impose our conscience on others.
When that happens, we acquire a “holier than thou” attitude, which then segregates.

Pce>>>AJ

 

[look3467]

I think there are many who misunderstand a plea from others to conform to the truth as a passing of judgment. I ask, if you were walking in the middle of a busy highway would it be “judgment” for someone to warn you of your danger or would it be earnest concern for your safety that they give you warning?>>>Sabbathkeeper

The problem is with what we understand to be the truth which we try to impose on others who may see it differently.

Imposing, rather exercise, informing, for in the walk is the message of truth seen.

The highway example, yes, warn by informing, and you yourself walk on the side of he road as an example of what you are warning against.
Then perhaps, I might see the error of my ways and repent to follow your heeding as truth.

You’ve got to be kidding!! If God did not want man to have an understanding of his view he would not have given us his word, the prophets, the judges, the nation of Isreal, HIS SON, or the Apostles and many many others that came after him. It is true that men distort their perceptions of God, however, the Word never fails and he has given his word to us through the centuries of writtings that are today available to us in more accurate a way then can be explained by science. We understand the works of God through his word. Now if you are saying we should view the world through God’s eyes, that can only be done by accepting who his son was and being filled with the Holy Spirit. It takes prayer, study and self-sacrifice to attain this goal.>>>Sabbathkeeper

The last part of your quote is exactly correct.I will underline it.
Notice I stopped short of underling the complete sentence, and that is because the only sacrifice needed is the time spent and the devotion to that time.

You see, the heart is what God looks at, and there is where God is moved to reveal Himself in.

I’m not sure this has anything to do with the OP’s original post and it probably has more to do with my handle. Therefore, comment will be held on this at the moment as it is not pertainent to this thread.>>>Sabbathkeeper

It does in this respect, it’s spiritual message.

To truly understand Gods view, we must see things in the spiritual as He is spirit.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[greystoke]

We are not sure Judas went to hell!

We are not sure he was a thief either. Sounds like an “intrusion”, ie added later to justify the writer’s, or later editor’s, opinion.

To illustrate, he was considered trustworthy enough to be the treasurer of the 12.

He was possibly also a daggerman, a zealot, the kind of man who could be trusted to carry out a mission. Jesus told him to “go and do what you must do”. I suspect he loved Jesus, and it was with a heavy heart that he led the soldiers to Gethsemane.

The Scriptures contradict each other in telling of his suicide. Did he hang himself(Matthew), and did the priests use the 30 pieces of silver to buy a potters field to bury poor peopl?

Or did he fall down in the potters field which he bought with the money, and his intestines burst open(Acts of the Apostles)?

When Jesus said “father forgive them, for they know not what they do”, didn’t that include Judas?

 

[Sabbath_Keeper]

We are not sure Judas went to hell!

We are not sure he was a thief either. Sounds like an “intrusion”, ie added later to justify the writer’s, or later editor’s, opinion.

To illustrate, he was considered trustworthy enough to be the treasurer of the 12.

He was possibly also a daggerman, a zealot, the kind of man who could be trusted to carry out a mission. Jesus told him to “go and do what you must do”. I suspect he loved Jesus, and it was with a heavy heart that he led the soldiers to Gethsemane.

The Scriptures contradict each other in telling of his suicide. Did he hang himself(Matthew), and did the priests use the 30 pieces of silver to buy a potters field to bury poor peopl?

Or did he fall down in the potters field which he bought with the money, and his intestines burst open(Acts of the Apostles)?

When Jesus said “father forgive them, for they know not what they do”, didn’t that include Judas?

Off topic, please stick to the OP’s question.

 

[Sabbath_Keeper]

AJ,

I think we are pretty much saying the same thing only from different angles. Although there may be a few things concerning what you have presented which I disagree with, as for Faith, Religion and our relationship with Christ, I think, as with the earlier church, it is a matter of symantics. We basically are saying the samething, only expressing it differently.

 

[greystoke]

Judas, after betraying Jesus, repented of what he had done. Though he was a thief - he stole money - he was angry at himself for what he had done: handing God over to mere mortals to be killed! But the apostle trembled before God’s Justice. He could not believe God would give him forgiveness for killing His own Son. So he committed suicide, hanging himself by a rope, and his guts spilled out. Because he had committed the unforgiveable sin, he went to hell…

Both Apostles, along with all the Apostles, were very close to the Lord. Judas had to be very close, because he was able to steal from Jesus’ money bag, the money which He used to give to the poor. And Peter was very close to the Lord because Jesus had appointed him the leader of His followers.

Now, if Judas had gone to hell, then how can some say that “it’s not about faith/religion, it’s about your relationship with Jesus.” The gospel clearly shows this is not true. By contrast, what is shown what is necessary in life and in order to attain eternal life is love. “He who obeys My Commandments love Me.” And to the question of what was necessary to attain eternal life, Jesus replied that it was necessary to love God and to love one another, citing the two most important Commandments in Judaism.

 

[greystoke]

Off topic, please stick to the OP’s question.

Above quotes show I was on topic

 

[nbtb1348]

I know that some non-Catholic Christians say “it’s not about faith/religion, it’s about your relationship with Jesus.”

I would like to show, in as gentle a way as possible, how this is not so correct, using the light of the gospel.

Jesus had twelve Apostles, and a number of disciples. He had some female disciples, too, which was considered countercultural in that time. As the gospel relates, his Apostles had a very hard time understanding His words, while His enemies knew exactly what He was talking about. On the night of Passover, He was betrayed by one of His Apostles, Judas. Another Apostle, Peter, denied Him three times, saying He didn’t know the Lord. (Remember what Jesus taught his disciples? “He who denies Me, I will deny before My Father.” My paraphrase).

Judas, after betraying Jesus, repented of what he had done. Though he was a thief - he stole money - he was angry at himself for what he had done: handing God over to mere mortals to be killed! But the apostle trembled before God’s Justice. He could not believe God would give him forgiveness for killing His own Son. So he committed suicide, hanging himself by a rope, and his guts spilled out. Because he had committed the unforgiveable sin, he went to hell.

Peter, after denying Jesus, repented of what he had done. Though he was a sinner - as he himself admitted when God called him - he was deeply saddened that he had boasted of his righteousness at the Passover meal and had been humiliated, and that he, in the height of righteousness, had denied the Lord not once but three times. By all accounts, he should have despaired as Judas had, yet the Lord showed him mercy, turning to look at him as He was taken away to be crucified, and Peter, griefed, began to weep over his sins.

Both Apostles, along with all the Apostles, were very close to the Lord. Judas had to be very close, because he was able to steal from Jesus’ money bag, the money which He used to give to the poor. And Peter was very close to the Lord because Jesus had appointed him the leader of His followers.

Now, if Judas had gone to hell, then how can some say that “it’s not about faith/religion, it’s about your relationship with Jesus.” The gospel clearly shows this is not true. By contrast, what is shown what is necessary in life and in order to attain eternal life is love. “He who obeys My Commandments love Me.” And to the question of what was necessary to attain eternal life, Jesus replied that it was necessary to love God and to love one another, citing the two most important Commandments in Judaism.

Now, if some non-Catholic Christians said, “It’s not about faith/religion, it’s about how you relate to Jesus,” that would be correct. Because God became man so that man might become like God, it is how we relate to - are like - God that counts in this world. “Be holy, just as your Father in Heaven is holy.”

People had relationships with Jesus while he was on earth that are not possible now. He was in the flesh and lived around a lot of people. That’s not the kind of relationship the Bible talks about. You can’t have a relationship with Jesus without receiving the provision of the cross by simple faith. “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

" 8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast."–Eph 2

This is the only relationship with God that He recognizes. When we step into it, we become God’s child and He places His eternal life into union with our life through his Holy Spirit.

 

[cheese_sdc]

Because he had committed the unforgiveable sin, he went to hell.

I don’t think that the Catholic Church teaches that Judas went to Hell. In fact, during my seminary education, we were instructed that we can’t know for certain if any person is in Hell.

Even Judas, or Hitler, or Stalin, or a serial killer.

 

[elvisman]

People had relationships with Jesus while he was on earth that are not possible now. He was in the flesh and lived around a lot of people. That’s not the kind of relationship the Bible talks about. You can’t have a relationship with Jesus without receiving the provision of the cross by simple faith. “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

" 8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast."–Eph 2

This is the only relationship with God that He recognizes. When we step into it, we become God’s child and He places His eternal life into union with our life through his Holy Spirit.

WRONG.
The faith we have in Christ is anything but simple. It is an all-consuming faith.
We must “love our enemies” Matt. 5:34

We must strive to be “perfect as our father in heaven is perfect” Matt. 5:48

We will be “hated because of his name” (Jesus) and we must “endure to the end” Matt. 24:11, Mark 13:13
(by the way, the Catholic Church is the most hated of all the churches in Christendom)

We must “fight the good fight” 2 Tim. 4:7

We must “bear good fruit or be cut down and thrown in the fire” Matt. 7:19

**We must“take up our cross daily”**Luke 9:23

We must “be crucified with Christ” Gal. 2:19

In short, it’s “obedience to faith”, my friend (Romans 1:5, 16:26). Not just a "simple faith"

The glaring problem with many Protestants is that they over-simplify things that are not simple at all. If it’s such a simple faith – why do you not (presumably) believe in the Eucharist? Why are you like all of the other former believers who abandoned Jesus because they lacked faith? John 6:66

 

[look3467]

AJ,

I think we are pretty much saying the same thing only from different angles. Although there may be a few things concerning what you have presented which I disagree with, as for Faith, Religion and our relationship with Christ, I think, as with the earlier church, it is a matter of symantics. We basically are saying the samething, only expressing it differently.

Yes, if we can agree upon the saving grace of Jesus as being the only vehicle for our salvation.

The problem arises when there is a definition as to how salvation is gained.

That is a problem that has to be worked out amongst us.

Salvation belongs to God, and the how we understand it is the problem.

We are brothers and sisters in Christ first, then all the rest falls into its place.
Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

If we all seek His kingdom first, then all the rest will fall into its place.

Its place is where you and I, and anybody else can be of one spirit and one mind when it comes to Jesus’ salvation of our souls.

Our efforts should rather be to proclaim the salvation of Christ to a world that recognizes Him not by our daily walk as a reflection of Christ in us.

Apart from that, there can be no life.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[elvisman]

Ummmm . . . nbtb1348 -
**Still waiting for an answer to post #15 . . . **

 

[Sabbath_Keeper]

Our efforts should rather be to proclaim the salvation of Christ to a world that recognizes Him not by our daily walk as a reflection of Christ in us.

Apart from that, there can be no life.

Peace>>>AJ

Pardon me but nobody is going to pay attention to anybody’s teaching on a issue if they don’t, as the saying goes, “Walk the Walk.” To teach one thing and do another it hyprocricy (sic) and demeans rather that exalts the word of God. There has been enough damage to God’s word and the way of Christ done by those who proclaim to be Christians yet their actions denounce their claim. Yes, we need to proclaim to the ends of the earth the saving grace of God through the cleansing blood of his Son, but we need to show that very grace is in effect by our own actions. Christ tells us that if we love God we would love our neighbors, and he that does not love his neighbor and claims to love God is a liar. Our speech and our actions need to go hand in hand. If they don’t then there is no salvation. Remember also what Jesus said about feeding and clothing the poor, the widowed and the orphaned. “As you have done to them so you have done to me, as you have not done to them so you have not done to me.” Of course this is paraphrased, but the just of the matter is there, we need our actions to show our faith.

 

[look3467]

Pardon me but nobody is going to pay attention to anybody’s teaching on a issue if they don’t, as the saying goes, “Walk the Walk.” To teach one thing and do another it hyprocricy (sic) and demeans rather that exalts the word of God. There has been enough damage to God’s word and the way of Christ done by those who proclaim to be Christians yet their actions denounce their claim. Yes, we need to proclaim to the ends of the earth the saving grace of God through the cleansing blood of his Son, but we need to show that very grace is in effect by our own actions. Christ tells us that if we love God we would love our neighbors, and he that does not love his neighbor and claims to love God is a liar. Our speech and our actions need to go hand in hand. If they don’t then there is no salvation. Remember also what Jesus said about feeding and clothing the poor, the widowed and the orphaned. “As you have done to them so you have done to me, as you have not done to them so you have not done to me.” Of course this is paraphrased, but the just of the matter is there, we need our actions to show our faith.

I have no argument against what you said.

Peace>>>AJ