A gentle correction on what is necessary to be a Christian

[look3467]

As for the Priest sex scandal – how does that come into play? The actions of some members of the body, while doing damage to the body, do not make up the entire body (1 Cor. 12:12-20). Again, while this does damage to the body, the rest of the body is not responsible for the sins of each individual. Jesus had twelve Apostles and one of them was a devil (John 6:70). Does that mean that Jesus wasn’t infallible? Of course not. That’s a really lame argument, friend.>>>elvisman

You have just stated a universal truth, and that is after Christ, meaning after the cross, quote: “the rest of the body is not responsible for the sins of each individual.”

If you take that phrase of yours you will find no that God is a universal God and via His Holy Spirit can abide simultaneously in each heart regardless of what belief they have.

What that also does is ability of God to reach every soul without distinction.

So, whether you are a Catholic or not, God is not limited.

You mention “unrighteous sin”. What does that mean? ALL sin is unrighteous (1 John 5:17). Where do you get your ideas about the types of sin? There are, indeed 2 types of sin: Venial, which harms our relationship with God and Mortal, which causes spiritual death and severs our relationship with God.>>>elvisman

To understand what I mean one has to look at what Gods intention was in the creation of mankind.
First, He wanted mankind to be in likeness of Himself. What is that likeness that we possess? That is the ability to discern good from evil.

How on earth can that be if God does not give us knowledge of it?

The ability then to have this knowledge is what makes us separate entities from God which translated, is death.

How could God give us a dead sentence that would be cruel and unjust punishment?

But God did not do us evil but; rather He is a wonderful and loving God who gave us the opportunity to our credit the experience our own judgment based His knowledge and on the trials and tribulations of this world.

If the created has no power of its own to advance its own salvation, means that only God can.

This is that “sin” that brought death to all mankind and not disobedience as in the story of Adam.
The story of Adam is made simple for a child to get the picture, but for a spiritually grown person the real answer is what I just mentioned.

The sin (singular) that mankind could not take away, God did.

Now, the sins (Plural) are the sins that are accountable unto man.

What you sow, that shall you reap.

All sowing and reaping is down only in one place, earth.

And the wages for those sins is death.

Once dead, there is no longer sin to pay for.

To sum up, the “sin” question, meaning separation from eternal life, is also given as was the first by God alone.

Why suppose that Jesus was all alone at the cross, for He as God alone could remedy the “sin” question.

You also claim that Jesus took care of mortal sins but the others are up to us to deal with? WHAT?? This is HERESY – plain and simple.
Jesus took care of ALL sin when he died on the cross - ALL sin, friend.>>>elvisman

Yes, we own our own sins (plural) and God is faithful and just to forgive them to, if we repent.

But the condition of separation due to God’s doing is God’s own responsibility to remedy, which He did, in Jesus.

So what is left, might be a question?

What is left is for us to seek Him first and then to live as He directs us.

Jesus said, on this type of faith is my church built on, meaning that a body of believers having faith in God is what constitutes the Church.

Of course, there had to be a start somewhere with someone to educate the world concerning the things Jesus taught, the Apostles took care of.

As physical organizations thus begin in various types of groups, the Catholic Church evolved from one of them, much like a child growing up with its trials and tribulations forging the character of the child.

A child has to have guidance in its early stages of life (Parents/church) and as the child grows up, independent thinking determines its Character and personality.

If, it was not designed that way, then the parents/church would restrict, limit, and or condemn any variances, keeping the young adult in bondage, which was the case.

Such was the case before Christ when the Mosaic Law instituted all kinds of abstinences, and condemnations for any variances punishable in many cases to the point of death.

The Spirit of God was not in each individual but collectively, hence when the Jewish nation suffered, they suffered collectively.

When Jesus came, He was one on one, but when He left, His spirit would now be present in all who would allow it.

Let me ask you something – these ideas sprang up in the last 400 or so years. This has never been a belief of the Church Fathers or a historical Church belief at all. It is not supported by the context of scripture. Where did you get this from?>>>elvisman

Let me first ask the question which is similar to yours, How many years before Christ was there strict rules, commandments placed on the Jewish people, and what changed all that?

That change sprung up in a period of 33 years, the life span of Jesus.

All that understanding is extrapolated from the bible in its entirety, and not in any one verse.
Let me say though, it is not a 101 course in bible study, but rather one where dedication, perseverance and prayer does answers come.

I share my findings freely and without requirement. Judge as you will.

Peace>>>AJ

P.S. You may select choice material for your responses, no need to respond to every detail.

 

[elvisman]

You have just stated a universal truth, and that is after Christ, meaning after the cross, quote: “the rest of the body is not responsible for the sins of each individual.”

If the created has no power of its own to advance its own salvation, means that only God can.

This is that “sin” that brought death to all mankind and not disobedience as in the story of Adam.
The story of Adam is made simple for a child to get the picture, but for a spiritually grown person the real answer is what I just mentioned.
The sin (singular) that mankind could not take away, God did.
Now, the sins (Plural) are the sins that are accountable unto man.
What you sow, that shall you reap.
All sowing and reaping is down only in one place, earth.
And the wages for those sins is death.
Once dead, there is no longer sin to pay for.
To sum up, the “sin” question, meaning separation from eternal life, is also given as was the first by God alone.
Why suppose that Jesus was all alone at the cross, for He as God alone could remedy the “sin” question.
Like I said before – this is a bizarre belief that has no place in the historic Universal (Catholic) Christian Church. It is not taught in Scripture and it is not taught by the Fathers. It has never been taught in the Church at all.
What you sow here on earth, you will reap on the Day of Judgment. What you are proposing is a form of the Karmic principle (Karma).

Yes, we own our own sins (plural) and God is faithful and just to forgive them to, if we repent.

But the condition of separation due to God’s doing is God’s own responsibility to remedy, which He did, in Jesus.
Jesus said, on this type of faith is my church built on, meaning that a body of believers having faith in God is what constitutes the Church.
Of course, there had to be a start somewhere with someone to educate the world concerning the things Jesus taught, the Apostles took care of.
As physical organizations thus begin in various types of groups, the Catholic Church evolved from one of them, much like a child growing up with its trials and tribulations forging the character of the chilld.
If, it was not designed that way, then the parents/church would restrict, limit, and or condemn any variances, keeping the young adult in bondage, which was the case.
When Jesus came, He was one on one, but when He left, His spirit would now be present in all who would allow it.
**This is hogwash, plain and simple. The Church is much more than a “body of believers having faith in God”. God’s Church is the ultimate authority on earth. You know *why? *Because Jesus said so (Matt, 16:15-19, Matt. 18:15-18, John 16:13-15, John 20:23). If you’re not a member of this Church then you are a member of one of the thousands of man-made churches that exist today.
Please provide proofthat the Catholic Church evolved from one of many groups.

Let me first ask the question which is similar to yours, How many years before Christ was there strict rules, commandments placed on the Jewish people, and what changed all that?

That change sprung up in a period of 33 years, the life span of Jesus.
All that understanding is extrapolated from the bible in its entirety, and not in any one verse.
Let me say though, it is not a 101 course in bible study, but rather one where dedication, perseverance and prayer does answers come.
Peace>>>AJ

You didn’t answer my question regarding your understanding of the nature of sin, so I will ask it a 2nd time:
Your ideas sprang up in the last 400 or so years. This has never been a belief of the Church Fathers or a historical Church belief at all. It is not supported by the context of scripture. Where did you get this from?

 

[look3467]

You didn’t answer my question regarding your understanding of the nature of sin, so I will ask it a 2nd time:
Your ideas sprang up in the last 400 or so years. This has never been a belief of the Church Fathers or a historical Church belief at all. It is not supported by the context of scripture. Where did you get this from?>>>elvisman

Of course you will not find this info in the church belief, but it is information that is understood by reading the bible and allowing the Holy Spirit to teach as it deems according to the individuals abilities to understand.

It is not supported as per the catholic Church’s interpretation and as yours as well.

I fully understand your stance on those interpretations and on standing firm on them.

That is your safety net.

And there is nothing wrong with that!

By my injecting my views I am presenting a situation where brotherly love can be exercised despite the differences we all hold as the better truth.

The liberty to venture out of the norm is stifled by the fear that it may lead one to damnation of hell fire, causing the differences between all of us to be magnified to the point of exclusion, segregation, and condemnation of others.

The motivating factor not being love, but church rule.

If I can pray alongside you in a remote area, we would both be in unity of spirit because we would be praying to the same God.

I said pray, and nothing else included.

Can you see where I am coming from.

There is another thread that is quite active in its discussion between the Catholics and the Mormons, which both are striving to persuade the other by pointing out issues that divide them both.

My view does none of that but rather encourages both to look at the heart of the matter, and that is to worship God from the heart.

If God is worshiped by the heart, then the differences become one in unity though different.

A Jew is not a Gentile, and a Gentile not a Jew. Yet of the two bodies Jesus has made one body, the church.

Yet you see still the differences in that the Jews still hold that Jesus was not the promised messiah.

So what does that tell you? Jesus made of two differences one, to be in unity only by love.

The salvation of the Jews is prophesied, yet their not, until they come to believe as you and I do in Jesus as our Savior.

As long as you hold me to the Catholic Church standards, as a primary requirement, you will not be able to share with me the love of God in unity.

 

[paarsurrey]

Now, if some non-Catholic Christians said, “It’s not about faith/religion, it’s about how you relate to Jesus,” that would be correct.

Because God became man so that man might become like God, it is how we relate to - are like - God that counts in this world. “Be holy, just as your Father in Heaven is holy.”

Hi

The above does not represent views of all the non-Catholics. I love Jesus and his true teachings but I don’t believe that Jesus was ever a god who became man. Jesus had no explicit claim to it except some obscure statements narrated by others who misunderstood him. This is my sincere opinion, however, no disrespect is intended to anybody’s faith or creed.

I love Jesus and Krishna

Thanks

 

[look3467]

Hi

The above does not represent views of all the non-Catholics. I love Jesus and his true teachings but I don’t believe that Jesus was ever a god who became man. Jesus had no explicit claim to it except some obscure statements narrated by others who misunderstood him. This is my sincere opinion, however, no disrespect is intended to anybody’s faith or creed.

I love Jesus and Krishna

Thanks

Hi,
If I may explain the reason for Jesus being not a god but God in the flesh.

The creation of mankind by God placed mankind in a dilemma by which there was no escape, meaning mankind by its own power could do noting to escape.

Therefore, unless God Himself come in the flesh, with power, no man could be saved.

God in the flesh, Jesus, could bring all of mankind from a dead state to a live state under His name.

Only then, and through Him, being God, mankind now has salvation.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi,
If I may explain the reason for Jesus being not a god but God in the flesh.

The creation of mankind by God placed mankind in a dilemma by which there was no escape, meaning mankind by its own power could do noting to escape.

Hi

Thanks for you response. I cannot ,however, agree with you as it logically makes God a non-entity. God is only attributive and if God melts down to a human physical form; it relinquishes all attributes in this process one by one.

It was Paul who invented godhead for Jesus, only for his own ulterior motives. It is Paul’s weird concept and not a concept of Jesus he believed in.

If God becomes a man; who then controls the Universe, in the intermittent period; the Universe kept smoothly working while God was missing and became man.

If the Universe could do without God for a while; then logically it could do without it always.

I love Jesus a perfect man though.

Thanks

 

[elvisman]

You didn’t answer my question regarding your understanding of the nature of sin, so I will ask it a 2nd time:
Your ideas sprang up in the last 400 or so years. This has never been a belief of the Church Fathers or a historical Church belief at all. It is not supported by the context of scripture. Where did you get this from?>>>elvisman

Of course you will not find this info in the church belief, but it is information that is understood by reading the bible and allowing the Holy Spirit to teach as it deems according to the individuals abilities to understand.

It is not supported as per the catholic Church’s interpretation and as yours as well.

I fully understand your stance on those interpretations and on standing firm on them.

That is your safety net.

And there is nothing wrong with that!

By my injecting my views I am presenting a situation where brotherly love can be exercised despite the differences we all hold as the better truth.

The liberty to venture out of the norm is stifled by the fear that it may lead one to damnation of hell fire, causing the differences between all of us to be magnified to the point of exclusion, segregation, and condemnation of others.
The motivating factor not being love, but church rule.
If I can pray alongside you in a remote area, we would both be in unity of spirit because we would be praying to the same God.
I said pray, and nothing else included.
Can you see where I am coming from.

There is another thread that is quite active in its discussion between the Catholics and the Mormons, which both are striving to persuade the other by pointing out issues that divide them both.
My view does none of that but rather encourages both to look at the heart of the matter, and that is to worship God from the heart.

If God is worshiped by the heart, then the differences become one in unity though different.

A Jew is not a Gentile, and a Gentile not a Jew. Yet of the two bodies Jesus has made one body, the church.

Yet you see still the differences in that the Jews still hold that Jesus was not the promised messiah.

So what does that tell you? Jesus made of two differences one, to be in unity only by love.

The salvation of the Jews is prophesied, yet their not, until they come to believe as you and I do in Jesus as our Savior.

As long as you hold me to the Catholic Church standards, as a primary requirement, you will not be able to share with me the love of God in unity.

I don’t hold any animosity towards you - you have been more than charitable and sincere. I would have no problem praying with you or any other seperated brother or sister. Most of my 12 siblings are Protestant and even though we are separated brethren, we love and respect each other very much.

I was merely pointing out that some of the bizarre beliefs you hold are not beliefs of the historic Christian faith. Some are downright heretical and I would not be charitable if I didn’t let you know. Truth is truth - you can’t get around it. To hold that your interpretation, though different than mine or the Church’s, is just as pleasing to God is a falsehood. That is called moral relativism - the belief that your truth and his Church’s truth are both true - we just see things differently.
Sorry, my friend - that just doesn’t wash with God - for he IS truth.

God Bless.

 

[look3467]

I was merely pointing out that some of the bizarre beliefs you hold are not beliefs of the historic Christian faith. Some are downright heretical and I would not be charitable if I didn’t let you know. Truth is truth - you can’t get around it. To hold that your interpretation, though different than mine or the Church’s, is just as pleasing to God is a falsehood. That is called moral relativism - the belief that your truth and his Church’s truth are both true - we just see things differently.
Sorry, my friend - that just doesn’t wash with God - for he IS truth.>>>elvisman

Hey, I appreciate your honesty.

If the common ground is Jesus, then we both have entrance into His Kingdom.

peace>>>AJ

 

[look3467]

Hi

Thanks for you response. I cannot ,however, agree with you as it logically makes God a non-entity. God is only attributive and if God melts down to a human physical form; it relinquishes all attributes in this process one by one.

It was Paul who invented godhead for Jesus, only for his own ulterior motives. It is Paul’s weird concept and not a concept of Jesus he believed in.

If God becomes a man; who then controls the Universe, in the intermittent period; the Universe kept smoothly working while God was missing and became man.

If the Universe could do without God for a while; then logically it could do without it always.

I love Jesus a perfect man though.

Thanks

I can understand your views and respect them.

My understanding is this, that my Jesus as God has provided a way back to the Father where before there was none.

Originally, the creator Father, created Adam (Mankind) and in order for Adam to know both good and evil it necessitated Adam to become like as God.

That process required Adam to be separate entity from the Father.
Separated in that Adam now had the ability to choose between good and evil, and to rule his own little kingdom apart from God’s.

The consequences for that was death of his soul. (Or separation from God or an outcast)

But God understood and would not leave His creation to utter destruction and created a body of flesh to house His Spirit in.

By so doing, that second Adam similar to the first, fulfilled all the requirements of the body of flesh for righteousness for our sakes and gave His righteousness to us for salvation.

Now here is the greatest and most wonderful part of all this, is that Jesus paid the price for all mankind!

Did you get that? All mankind!

I am a peace loving Christian you are a peace loving Muslim, and in the name of peace we should be brothers and sisters.

If goodness is practiced by you and that to wards your neighbor, then you and I fulfill the commandment to love our neighbor.

If we do that then we are in compliance with God’s desires.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[paarsurrey]

I can understand your views and respect them.

I am a peace loving Christian you are a peace loving Muslim, and in the name of peace we should be brothers and sisters.

If goodness is practiced by you and that to wards your neighbor, then you and I fulfill the commandment to love our neighbor.

If we do that then we are in compliance with God’s desires.

Peace>>>AJ

Hi

I like the contents of your post as mentioned above. We have to co-exist in this world and love each other.

Thanks

 

[look3467]

Hi

I like the contents of your post as mentioned above. We have to co-exist in this world and love each other.

Thanks

In that we have fellowship and are as one!

Peace to you, good life and health!

Peace>>>AJ