A little whine about mode of dress

[MissRose73]

I know I am sometimes judgmental in mind when I see people coming to Mass better suited for a beach party, sporting event, a concert or a night out in a dance club. But I do not say anything to them. I know that I dress up for Mass as I am think of it this way: I am going to a better gathering and meal with a Guest of Honor that deserves my utmost respect & honor.

I’d rather see someone come to Mass with a plain & modest shirt, a pair of decent jeans and decent shoes compared to the short dresses or skirts I’ve been seeing a lot lately. Hopefully, priests will say more with warm weather soon in the midwest USA I can only pray. I am not asking for the constant dress up days of the 1950s but at the same time, we can dress up some at least for a few hours 1 day a week for Holy Mass even if at work we are allowed jeans and tees in some places now.

 

[L_piperatus]

I’d rather see someone come to Mass with a plain & modest shirt, a pair of decent jeans and decent shoes compared to the short dresses or skirts I’ve been seeing a lot lately. Hopefully, priests will say more with warm weather soon in the midwest USA I can only pray. I am not asking for the constant dress up days of the 1950s but at the same time, we can dress up some at least for a few hours 1 day a week for Holy Mass even if at work we are allowed jeans and tees in some places now.

I wholeheartedly agree with what you are saying here. Being a man, I can buy a plain and decent outfit (shirt plus pants, not thank top plus shorts) for church for as little as $30-35. I imagine it might be a little more expensive for a woman, but I see no reason and frankly no excuse, why can’t a woman show up in church with a decent outfit that covers her shoulders and a dress or skirt that comes down to cover her knee, or perhaps wearing some decent (not skin-tight) pants.

Summer has come where I live (South Florida), and many women are now coming to church wearing tank tops. They get out of their cars, walk into the air-conditioned church building with their exposed shoulders and exposed backs, and I think to myself, all they had to do was to just keep a sweater or pullover in the car and put it on before walking into the church building. Or, I remember this lady who got out of her top-of-the-line luxury car, wearing some miniskirt that was so short it was about to expose her underwear any moment, and walked into Holy Mass like that. Something has seriously gone wrong in our culture. If she could afford a car worth $70 K, she could surely afford a decent skirt that would come down to cover her knees. But, for some reason or other (it could be simple ignorance, rather than a more sinister motive like vanity), she would walk around and even enter God’s house like that.

It makes you cry to think about it, how successfully Satan can mislead people to the point of robbing them of their sound judgment, walking around naked and (spiritually) blind, with Satan having made a mockery out of their innate dignity as children of God. Case in point is this lady - she was walking around in public partially naked with her miniskirt, even though she could surely afford to cover herself, and she was probably thinking that she was trendy, hip, cutting-edge or something. One is reminded of Christ’s words to the church of Laodicea, in Revelation, chapter 3 (quote from vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/__P12M.HTM ):

14
"To the angel of the church in Laodicea, write this: " 'The Amen, the faithful and true witness, the source of God’s creation, says this:

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"I know your works; I know that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either cold or hot.

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So, because you are lukewarm, neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.

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For you say, ‘I am rich and affluent and have no need of anything,’ and yet do not realize that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked.

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I advise you to buy from me gold refined by fire so that you may be rich, and white garments to put on so that your shameful nakedness may not be exposed, and buy ointment to smear on your eyes so that you may see.

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Those whom I love, I reprove and chastise. Be earnest, therefore, and repent.

 

[L_piperatus]

And yes when it comes to Sunday - Sunday is special, it’s a day of celebration, because we celebrate the resurrection of Our Lord, we celebrate that he has defeated death and opened the doors of Heaven and eternal life not only for himself but for all of us who accept his invitation to follow him, and it’s OK and fitting to show our joy and celebration by dressing up specially (in our Sunday best) for the occasion. Sunday is not a day when we are going to the beach and by the way, we stop at the church for Holy Mass, wearing our shorts and flip-flops and sundresses and tank tops. If we do that, that’s all wrong and messed up. Again, we shouldn’t look for excuses to dress immodestly and sloppily, just because we are perhaps planning to go to the beach, or to the baseball game, after Holy Mass.

I’m probably very lucky because I was raised a certain way, and now I see that ingrained habits stay with me.

We used to go to a Marian shrine and pilgrimage place all the time, and my Mom always dressed me and my sister nicely which gave a festive atmosphere to the occasion. This shrine (named Maria Radna, in Romania, Europe) also happens to be on a hillside surrounded by nature, with woods, a creek on the hillside, a river running through the canyon of the valley, and - gasp! - the ruins of a 600-year old fort (named Solymos, or Soimus) on another hilltop, from the times of Europe’s wars of defense against the Ottoman Empire. Obviously, this place had everything a boy would want - nothing like running around and playing hide-and-seek amid the walls of a centuries-old fort! And we always had lots of fun during our visits to this Marian shrine and the places surrounding it. But we started the day by attending Holy Mass, dressed in festive clothes for the occasion. After Mass, we would walk around and admire the beautiful church (the church is a designated Papal Basilica Minor), we would say the Rosary or do the Stations of the Cross with the other pilgrims visiting there, and after that, our Mom would change my sister and I into different clothes, and we were free to run around, climb the trees, whatever we could imagine.

So now, when I go down to Key West, whose beautiful and historic Catholic church (the oldest parish in South Florida) has just been declared a Papal Basilica Minor (the church is St. Mary Star of the Sea, with a beautiful stained glass window above the altar, depicting Mary’s miraculous apparition 400 years ago to three sailors lost in a storm and fearing for their lives among the furious waves of the ocean surrounding their small vessel), I would be driving down there in shorts, but I find a restroom and change into nice clothes (slacks with a nice shirt) before entering the church. Then, I attend Holy Mass, visit the Chapel of Perpetual Adoration, and after that, I’m off to the beach, swimming, snorkeling, and enjoying the sight of colorful fish swimming all around me - they are usually inches away from you, and sometimes they will even come and check out your hands , if you hold out your hands steadily without making any sudden moves. So, there’s enough time during a Sunday to worship God, to have fun at the beach, and do it all while dressing respectfully and appropriately for the visit to the House of God!

 

[c0ldb33r]

This thread is odd.

Who are you to judge others?
BTW Jesus wore sandals.

 

[severus68]

This thread is odd.

Who are you to judge others?
BTW Jesus wore sandals.

Actually the OP herself after praying and thinking about has herself determined that it is a trivial matter and she should not judge. Others will not let it go.

 

[etmom]

When people can show up on Christmas Eve, sit in the front pew and drink from Starbucks cups DURING THE HOMILY with no shame, I think the standards are slipping…:

wow, do you actually know my sister in law? Sipping Starbucks during the funeral mass of her own mother…my husband nearly came unglued…

 

[c0ldb33r]

Actually the OP herself after praying and thinking about has herself determined that it is a trivial matter and she should not judge. Others will not let it go.

I stand corrected - thank you

 

[PPC]

My rant:

I think the way some people dress for church becomes a near occasion of sin to other Mass attendees:

A near occasion of sin for those who struggle with impure thoughts.

A near occasion of sin for those who are appalled by the inappropriate clothing people wear and its sinful consequences and therefore they have a difficult time fully concentrating on the Mass.

I think the bishops should address this huge problem immediately. I am tired of the clergy issuing statements about how pleased everyone should be because these immodestly dressed people are in church with them.

Should a Catholic be obligated to go to Mass under these near occasion of sin circumstances???

 

[L_piperatus]

Should a Catholic be obligated to go to Mass under these near occasion of sin circumstances???

That’s a good question. We all have a duty to avoid the near occasion of sin. But when the church is full of scandalously dressed people, the church itself becomes a hostile place to be, and we are forced to start shunning the church. This is a no-win situation.

 

[Shae]

Coming out of a Protestant background, I have always dressed my very best to go to church. My sister, brother and I had a special outfit and shoes just for church and other special occasions and we did not wear them to school. Ever. It took me years to even consider wearing pants to church. So here comes the whine–I have been rather shocked at what parishioners wear to Mass on Sunday morning. If I have an audience with the Queen of England, I will dress up nicely. I have an audience with the King of the Universe each time I go to Mass so why wouldn’t I wear my best for Him? I know, I know, I should be happy that they are in the pews. However, I was very dismayed when a teenage girl in the pew in front of me last Sunday was wearing short shorts. Over and over I’ve reminded myself that at least they ARE in church and it’s really none of my business how they dress. Do I need to get over this? In the great scheme of things this is not an earth shattering issue, but I find it disrespectful and a bit disconcerting.

There is Hymn in the mass book “Come as your are” thats how I want you etc.
Not everybody can afford the nice clothes. Think about that.
They are in church Is that not the main thing here?

 

[roselily]

Men wear suit and women wear simple and modest dress in church,


I think that looks nice. and that in church my eyes raise toward the up, face fixed in listening and delighted.
My heart and soul in prayers and I love to be with people who love God and kind and do not care what they wears.

 

[Et_Cetera]

Just remember that a judgmental attitude draws a lot of people away from the church.

 

[L_piperatus]

My rant:

I think the way some people dress for church becomes a near occasion of sin to other Mass attendees:

A near occasion of sin for those who struggle with impure thoughts.

A near occasion of sin for those who are appalled by the inappropriate clothing people wear and its sinful consequences and therefore they have a difficult time fully concentrating on the Mass.

I think the bishops should address this huge problem immediately. I am tired of the clergy issuing statements about how pleased everyone should be because these immodestly dressed people are in church with them.

Should a Catholic be obligated to go to Mass under these near occasion of sin circumstances???

Here are Michael Voris’s observations, attending World Youth Day in Madrid, in August 2011 - very relevant to this discussion:

youtube.com/watch?v=OuJ7tM9w780&feature=relmfu

Quote:

When you see the whole world come together in the faith at an event like this, some things become very visible, they stick out. The biggest thing by far that sticks out, is just how far Americanism has infected the Church in many countries…

…the idea of a kind of rugged, independent, “don’t tell us what to do, we’ll do it our own way” kind of attitude. What this has caused in America and countries America has influenced, is a heavy streak of theological independence which manifests itself in many ways.

When you attend Mass at an event like World Youth Day, where worshipers gather from many different countries, Americans and their theological allies stick out like sore thumbs. The irreverent dress, many times immodest…

…the Catholic Church in America has accommodated Protestantism, especially the American brand of Protestantism. It’s so much about feeling and emotion, and feeling good, and touchy-feely and community. Mass is more about the people who attend it, than the God who is worshiped at it. And, since the people are the focus, the people’s needs and comforts are what get the attention…

…I don’t need to concern myself with dressing modestly, because MY comfort is what matters! Oh, God understands!

It was edifying to see so many, many young people from other parts of the world… …approach the altar dressing modestly.

Likewise it makes you downright cringe to see so many Westerners or Americanized Catholics standing there at Mass half naked, strolling up for Holy Communion looking around at everything else…

We spoke to many pilgrims, NOT Americanized, who simply left a number of official events, because they said, in their words, they couldn’t pray. Too many distractions, occasions of sin, silliness, and not enough seriousness.

…With Americanism, it is the liturgy that has suffered: in dress, respect, awereness, and eventually attendance. Why should anyone feel like there’s anything special about Mass, when a huge number of the few people who still attend adopt the attitude and dress of a day out at the beach?

Until Americanism is addressed in the Church, it’s going to be a tough road back to a reverent, faithful, meaningful, vibrant, true Catholicism in Western countries.

Hopefully the Catholic youth from Western countries that we DID see who WERE reverent and faithful at Masses, who walked around dressed modestly in the searing heat, and participated meditatively at the various prayer times, hopefully they will be able to be a splendid influence on their Americanized peers, who stand out like sore thumbs in comparison to the rest of the world’s Catholics.

 

[RedSoxWife]

There is Hymn in the mass book “Come as your are” thats how I want you etc.
Not everybody can afford the nice clothes. Think about that.
They are in church Is that not the main thing here?

I don’t think this is as much about nice close as modest clothing most of the time. We’re very low income and have been for about three years. Our clothes definitely show wear. But… I can at least make sure that my private parts aren’t showing. I’ve nearly been flashed by a woman in a short mini skirt walking by my pew (I wasn’t because I looked away, before I’d just been looking straight ahead towards the front of the Church). That’s the only thing that really bothers me. And most of the clothing I’ve seen that seems inappropriate doesn’t look inexpensive…

 

[LightBound]

Actually the OP herself after praying and thinking about has herself determined that it is a trivial matter and she should not judge. Others will not let it go.

Sigh. I wish everyone would just let it ago. I’m hopeful it won’t turn into yet another typical modesty thread with the same worn-out rants, but the odds are against us. Let’s pray for a miracle that the thread will die out.

 

[RedSoxWife]

Sigh. I wish everyone would just let it ago. I’m hopeful it won’t turn into yet another typical modesty thread with the same worn-out rants, but the odds are against us. Let’s pray for a miracle that the thread will die out.

The reason it comes up over and over again is because it’s one of the issues and challenges that we face as Catholics in our modern society. If we don’t like modesty threads, we can always not post in them or read them. They’re usually pretty clearly marked by their names.

Sorry people telling other people what they should or shouldn’t discuss on these forums is a pet peeve of mine. It’s not like anyone is forcing us to read a particular thread…

 

[LightBound]

The reason it comes up over and over again is because it’s one of the issues and challenges that we face as Catholics in our modern society. If we don’t like modesty threads, we can always not post in them or read them. They’re usually pretty clearly marked by their names.

Sorry people telling other people what they should or shouldn’t discuss on these forums is a pet peeve of mine. It’s not like anyone is forcing us to read a particular thread…

Sorry, but people telling other people what they should wear by insisting on a certain interpretation of what is modest is a pet-peeve of mine (and not that you have done that, but others sure have on every modesty thread we’ve ever had on CAF).

I choose to read and reply on those threads so that others will be informed on what the Vatican says is appropropriate, hence the stick-figure sign outside Vatican churches, instead of those posts that are speculating on and trying to interpret what an apparition (approved or not) of the Blessed Mother said or what a verse in Deuteronomy meant. (again, I’m not saying you have done that). A quick search of past threads will show that plenty of people have been quoting things supposedly said at Fatima, when the official Vatican site says no such thing or they dig up the verse in Deut. which was written when no one in Biblical lands wore pants or trousers.

 

[L_piperatus]

My pet peeve is to post specific requirements on modest dress per the instructions from the Vatican and our priests.

Nobody is turned away from Vatican City for not wearing expensive and dressy clothes, no woman is turned away for wearing decent pants, nobody is turned away for wearing decent (not skin-tight) jeans. HOWEVER the guards will not let in people who show up with tank tops and sleeveless tops exposing their shoulders. Shorts, short dresses and short skirts that go above the knee are also NO-NO.

For folks who are already aware of the specific requirements set by our Pope, bishops, and priests, to dress modestly when visiting Catholic churches, you folks please disregard my post. I’m posting for the benefit of those who wish to learn and obey these rules of modesty.

As long as there is an ongoing problem with immodest dress in our Catholic churches, and a lack of compliance with the specific directions given by our Popes, bishops, and priests, it is necessary to talk about this issue and to inform people regarding the dress code in Catholic churches.

 

[Bonjovie]

I was going to read all the posts before replying, but after the third page I felt I couldn’t take it anymore. Why does everyone keep saying: Well at least they came? I don’t know if you all know how that sounds. And since when is correcting someone being judgmental? There is something we owe to our brothers and sisters in the faith and that is Charity. True charity which in this case will be shown by letting someone know that what they are doing is wrong, irrespective of your worries or fear of what others might think of you. Correction not so that we can be satisfied with being better in one aspect of virtue than the person, but so that we can help the person along the way to God! Yes, thank God they came, but after that then what? They sit in the pews forever without taking a step closer to loving God and His Christ, His Church and somehow that’s okay because " at least they were there"?
Please! Lets not give excuses for our lack of charity and boldness in proclaiming the truth.
The teachers of the doctrines of the church are the priests and they should be listened to. If someone will have no respect for the priest or Jesus in the blessed sacrament or for the Holy sacrifice of the mass, then the person has things explained to them after which a failure to comply will show that the person has no respect for authority. But at least they would have heard it pointblank. We can’t just sit and hope that someday the light will shine in their hearts while they cause distractions and give bad example to others.

I will give the example again of what a priest said after mass in a Parish I once attended. He said that he had refused six people communion because their dresses were improper and their bosoms were showing because of their low cut necklines. He announced to all present that such immodest dressing and transparent clothing or short clothing above the knee will not be tolerated. He advised that women desist from it and that they would be denied communion as long as they persisted, but they would not be refused entry into the church in the hope that someday they will listen to Christ. I was pleased.

I wish someone had told me earlier about proper dress sense. I found out on my own later and I was upset because I thought that since nobody said anything it meant the dress was acceptable

I think that we stand the risk of lowering the bar because we are afraid we’d be acting judgmental and Christians who just get by are not the Christians the Church needs now. So they’ll feel bad, or angry and may never come back. Then we pray for them, because if they wouldn’t listen to truth, they probably would have a hard time listening to Christ anyway and those are not the kind of friends Christ wants. Things will only get worse. If shorts are okay, next will be short shorts, and then soon someone would just get out of the beach and straight into church for mass.
In many parishes in the state I currently school in, Trousers are banned. Not to veil your hair is a taboo and guess what? We still can’t find sits in the third mass on Sunday-everywhere is full!

Let us not think that Christ does not need us to show the way to others. I especially think that the Parish priests are responsible for the respect or lack of it that the Parishioners show. The pulpit is not there for nothing, their authority has not been given them for nothing-they should use it. Talk about it during the homily or announce it after the communion whatever. We will be held accountable for the bad we did, but also for the good we did not do. These people need us even if they don’t know it. I’ve said things in a rush. Sorry.

 

[Bonjovie]

My rant:

I think the way some people dress for church becomes a near occasion of sin to other Mass attendees:

A near occasion of sin for those who struggle with impure thoughts.

A near occasion of sin for those who are appalled by the inappropriate clothing people wear and its sinful consequences and therefore they have a difficult time fully concentrating on the Mass.

I think the bishops should address this huge problem immediately. I am tired of the clergy issuing statements about how pleased everyone should be because these immodestly dressed people are in church with them.

Should a Catholic be obligated to go to Mass under these near occasion of sin circumstances???

Thank God I read this. I was beginning to wonder if I was the only one seeing things from this angle.