Z
zerinus
Guest
In Mormonism Jesus is the Only Begotten Son.
A Major New Study of Religion in the US Has the following to Say About Mormons:
- Status
F
Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
I don’t know, I have heard from many ex-mormons that they have been totally cut off by their family and friends within the LDS community for leaving.
F
Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
Taken from the Catholic Information Center.
From Sacred Scripture, the three heavens would be delineated as follows: the first heaven is the earth’s atmosphere. The Hebrew word shamayim may be translated as “heaven,” but more appropriately refers to the sky. Another Hebrew word for this first heaven is shachaq, which is more accurately translated in English as “clouds” or “sky.”
The second heaven is “outer space,” where one finds the stars and the planets.
The third heaven, as described by St. Paul, is Paradise, where God resides and the heavenly sanctuary exists.
This shows the problem with only relying on English language translations or translations done by those who do not have a solid grasp on the original languages that the Scriptures were written in.
A
aquabatix
Guest
So then there is a difference.
People of other faiths who have heard the Mormon message but do not believe it can not obtain the celestial kingdom. Thank you for providing the D&C to back up what I said.
A
aquabatix
Guest
Thanks for the redirect. Please try to stay on topic though.
A
aquabatix
Guest
Heaven IS a place of salvation, but not good, better and best heaven separately.
A
aquabatix
Guest
So if we are all in “apostasy”, we are all lost and not simply another view that is just as fine which is what tolerance would indicate.
Z
zerinus
Guest
Ex-Catholics are not a reliable source of information about Catholicism. They have an axe to grind. I wouldn’t go to an ex-Catholic to find out about Catholicism. I would go to a Catholic. What makes you think that ex-Mormons are a reliable source of information about Mormonism?
A
aquabatix
Guest
However you can’t go to a practicing Mormon to find out how someone is treated when they stop practicing. They haven’t been there so they wouldn’t know. You can’t have it both ways.
Z
zerinus
Guest
That interpretation is manifestly in error. Paul speaks of the three heavens as places that one can go to. He counts himself lucky that he was taken to the third one; but he might just has easily have been taken to the first or second. The atmosphere and the sky does not match the description of a place where one can go to.
Z
zerinus
Guest
Redirecting the thread?
Z
zerinus
Guest
Paul seemed to believe differently.
Z
zerinus
Guest
It doesn’t mean that you are all lost. In Mormonism churches can accomplish some good. It is better to be an Catholic than an atheist. I would go further and say it is better to be catholic than Protestant.
F
Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
Not in the Scriptural quote you gave us.
Z
zerinus
Guest
I would take a Catholic’s word for how a Catholic would be treated if he left the church.
Z
zerinus
Guest
It is implied; otherwise why should he call it the “third heaven”? Why didn’t he just call it “heaven”? The fact that he draws our attention to the idea that it was the third one implies that he could just as easily been taken the first or second one, but he was lucky enough to be taken to the highest, which is the third one.
F
Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
Just as I said, the Third Heaven applies to the heavenly sanctuary where God resides, the second heaven is where the planets reside, and the first heaven is the earthly realm.
Hence saying the Third Heaven.
Again, it is important to know the Scriptural languages and their usage.
Z
zerinus
Guest
So by that reckoning Paul regards earth to be heaven?
Not true!
J
Jim_Dandy
Guest
Do you mean the Patristic teaching of theosis? It is definitely not the same as the Mormon belief in “exaltation”?It is the patristic teaching my friend.
Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism, wrote:
–quote–
God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! . . . I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see. . . . You have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another . . . from exaltation to exaltation . . .until you arrive at the same exaltation . . . To inherit the same power, the same glory and the same exaltation, until you arrive at the same station of a God and ascend the throne of eternal power the same as those who have gone before… . . When I get my kingdom I shall present it to my Father [God], so that he may obtain kingdom upon kingdom and it will exalt him in glory. He [God] will take a higher exaltation and I will take his place, and thereby become exalted myself. . .
Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, page 346-348
–end quote –
–quote–
WHAT IS EXALTATION?
Exaltation is eternal life, the kind of life that God lives. He lives in great glory. He is perfect. He possesses all knowledge.and all wisdom. He is the father of spirit children. He is a creator. We can become Gods like our Heavenly Father. This is exaltation. Gospel Principles, LDS Church, Salt Lake City, p.289-90
REQUIREMENTS FOR EXALTATION
We must be baptized and confirmed a member of the Church of Jesus Christ [of Latter-Day Saints].
We must receive the temple endowment
We must obey the Word of Wisdom [no wine, strong drinks, tobacco, or hot drinks, etc.]
– end quote–
A long “to do” list follows. It includes the requirement to obey parents, hold family prayers daily, teach the gospel [of Mormonism] to others, honor parents, keep the Sabbath holy, etc.
And, of course, Mormons who do not give 10% of their gross income to the LDS church cannot be exalted. * ibid*, p. 291
Does the guarantee of becoming a God, and ruling over a world of one’s own, and populating it with spirit children produced with many goddess wives – sex forever – motivate Mormon men to obey the rules? You betcha. And to be a goddess, one’s husband must be a God. Becoming a God or goddess in the afterlife is the Mormon promise. Clever fellow, ole Joe Smith.
Archaeology and genetics disprove Mormonism, and yet people continue to believe it.
Jim Dandy
H
HAnne
Guest
Two of our dearest friends up here are Mormon. They’re a lovely and wonderful couple. When we first met them, and were in the “getting to know you” phase of friendship, we knew them only as “in charge” of the local Scout group. They were very honest and forthright about their religion. Basically they said, “We’re Mormon, but do not press our beliefs on the children about anything but family values and that grown men are to be the strong in their faith and to have the skills necessary to lead a family before having one. Is that okay with you?” I smiled and said yes and we moved on.
Since then, the high placement of family values have actually been a HUGE factor in bringing my husband home to the Catholic faith. A conversation with the husband is precisely what motivated the switch for him. The husband is very honest about how important God and Christ are in his life coming from a Catholic and Mormon upbringing. He’s been a wonderful influence on both my son and my husband by showing strength in faith.
Honestly, we don’t know many Catholics in our area yet, but I can say that when it comes to what we place as important in our family (faith, God, family first, etc) we see eye to eye on the “big picture” and just don’t go into the “Mormon differences”.
For me, it’s enough for my child to see a loving family that supports each other, uplifts each other, and cares for each other. Those are rare enough these days - no matter what church you attend.
Since then, the high placement of family values have actually been a HUGE factor in bringing my husband home to the Catholic faith. A conversation with the husband is precisely what motivated the switch for him. The husband is very honest about how important God and Christ are in his life coming from a Catholic and Mormon upbringing. He’s been a wonderful influence on both my son and my husband by showing strength in faith.
Honestly, we don’t know many Catholics in our area yet, but I can say that when it comes to what we place as important in our family (faith, God, family first, etc) we see eye to eye on the “big picture” and just don’t go into the “Mormon differences”.
For me, it’s enough for my child to see a loving family that supports each other, uplifts each other, and cares for each other. Those are rare enough these days - no matter what church you attend.
- Status