A more lay Church?

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NoelFitz

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Due to the decreasing number of celibate clergy in the Roman Rite of the Church will the western Catholic Church become more of a lay church in the future?

Since the papacy of JPII it seems some bishops were chosen for loyalty rather than ability and combined with the fall in the number of priests and the closing of seminaries , religious scholarship and leadership in the western church appear to be moving to Catholic and non-Catholic universities.

In Ireland many of the tasks formerly done by priests, such as bringing communion to the sick, are now also done by laity.

Thus in the future will lay people play a larger role, with celebrations of word and communion, replacing Mass in many places and lay Catholics playing greater roles, including leadership in The Church?
 
NoelFitz said:
Due to the decreasing number of celibate clergy in the Roman Rite of the Church will the western Catholic Church become more of a lay church in the future?

Since the papacy of JPII it seems some bishops were chosen for loyalty rather than ability and combined with the fall in the number of priests and the closing of seminaries , religious scholarship and leadership in the western church appear to be moving to Catholic and non-Catholic universities.

In Ireland many of the tasks formerly done by priests, such as bringing communion to the sick, are now also done by laity.

Thus in the future will lay people play a larger role, with celebrations of word and communion, replacing Mass in many places and lay Catholics playing greater roles, including leadership in The Church?
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No. Without priests, the Church collapses.

Why do you think the devil is attacking the two most crucial pillars of the Church, the family and the priesthood?
 
I think that there is no question that given the shortage of priests, many duties that do not require priesthood will be done by lay people.
 
I think in the future you will seem more lay people helping with administration of our churches and priests focusing on the mass and the sacraments.
 
I think this is inevitable. I already know of one church on the other side of town that has no weekday Masses just lay-led communion services. The drop in the number of priests requires a radical solution. Some parishes have brought in priests from Africa, but taking too many priests away from their home countries is hardly fair - they need priests there too. I suppose more priests from religious orders could help to celebrate Mass and hear confessions at nearby parishes. But religious houses are also getting fewer. Ultimately, the Church will have to either make the priesthood more attractive to young men as a career option, make it easier for more mature candidates to pursue ordination or accept more functions being performed by laity.
 
We are seeing it here in Los Angeles with lay parish administrators, as well. While some people bemoan this trend, I see where it could be very helpful for the priests we do have, so that they can focus on the spiritual needs of the community, such as the sacraments, while someone else, who does not need to be an ordained priest, handles the business side of the parish. Ideally, they would complement and support the priest so that he does not get overwhelmed with too many responsibilities.
 
Agree. We have one priest to minister to two churches, one Catholic School, a hospital and numerous nursing and residential homes, plus he has other pastoral area and diocesan jobs. He undertakes his priestly duties and the few carry out all the ministries and jobs open to the laity to support the Church. He is wise enough to know not to leave the actual decision making to the laity, so we have no parish council. It is not an ideal situation and we suffer because we cannot have much quality time with our priest, and the support he can give is limited because he cannot be in two places at once. Praying for vocations is so important.
 
Porthos11,
Thank you for your reply.
I think you misunderstood my principal query, which is to ask will the Church in the future be a Church where lay people have larger roles and importance.

One can see many new lay movements contributing more and more. Catholic Answers is an example of this, as is Opus Dei, which has mostly lay members. Other mainly lay movements include:
 Catholic Worker Movement
 Community of St. Egidio
 Communion and Liberation
 Focolare Movement
 L’Arche
 Neocatechumenal Way
 Schoenstatt Movement

I believe, with the decline in the number of clergy lay Catholics will play more significant roles in Church life.

I want to know what others think.
 
Thanks to all who replied. There seems to be general agreement that the laity will have larger roles in the Church. They are more than to “pray up, pay up and shut up”.

Arguments about the role of laity in the Church are not new, as we see from a letter of Monsignor Talbot to Cardinal Manning concerning Blessed John Henry Newman’s support of the laity.
“What is the province of the laity? To hunt, to shoot, to entertain? These matters they understand, but to meddle with ecclesiastical matters they have no right at all, and this affair of Newman is a matter purely ecclesiastical…. Dr. Newman is the most dangerous man in England, and you will see that he will make use of the laity against your Grace.”
 
NoelFitz said:
Due to the decreasing number of celibate clergy in the Roman Rite of the Church will the western Catholic Church become more of a lay church in the future?

Since the papacy of JPII it seems some bishops were chosen for loyalty rather than ability and combined with the fall in the number of priests and the closing of seminaries , religious scholarship and leadership in the western church appear to be moving to Catholic and non-Catholic universities.

In Ireland many of the tasks formerly done by priests, such as bringing communion to the sick, are now also done by laity.

Thus in the future will lay people play a larger role, with celebrations of word and communion, replacing Mass in many places and lay Catholics playing greater roles, including leadership in The Church?
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I don’t think Ireland or the Western Europe in general may serve as an example of the way the Church should be.
 
Christofirst & Valencec,
Lay people are also ministers of the sacraments, for example the ministers of matrimony are the couple and not the priest, also Eucharist is given to the infirm by lay ministers often.
Lay Catholics can be more than administrators, as we are full members of the People of God, the Mystical Body of Christ.
 
Peter26,
again I agree.
Priests from Africa are often difficult to understand, and their outlook differs from those in Irish congregations, and they are also inclined to go on too long!
 
Thanks again to all who replied. There was general agreement, with only one person seeming to differ, and I think this was due to a misunderstanding of what I was saying.
But some seemed to see lay Catholics as not contributing to the religious life of the Church, but only to the secular, administrative parts.

Also the change in scholarship, learning and theology to non-clergy and outside seminaries were not addressed. Is the closure of seminaries fostering Catholic scholarship moving to universities?

Are lay Catholics gaining in confidence, realizing more that they are vital in the Church?

I am reminded of Blessed John Henry Newman again. In reply to Bishop Ullathorne’s query about the laity, Newman claimed “I answered (not in these words) that the Church would look foolish without them”.
 
christofirst said:
We are seeing it here in Los Angeles with lay parish administrators, as well. While some people bemoan this trend, I see where it could be very helpful for the priests we do have, so that they can focus on the spiritual needs of the community, such as the sacraments, while someone else, who does not need to be an ordained priest, handles the business side of the parish. Ideally, they would complement and support the priest so that he does not get overwhelmed with too many responsibilities.
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Sort of, but… it’s not really new or a solution, IMO. Every pastor I know of already uses a part-time bookkeeper. That’s generally a good thing. But pastors can’t just turn that side of their duties over to someone and not worry about it…they still have to stay on top of the finances because the buck still stops with them. I’ve seen plenty of financial dereliction of duty and even many incidents of embezzlement in our diocese.
 
Thanks again to all who contributed to this discussion.
But I wonder is it in the correct place (apologetics → social justice). I wonder if I submitted it elsewhere would I get more contributors, and if so to where?
 
NoelFitz said:
Christofirst & Valencec,
Lay people are also ministers of the sacraments, for example the ministers of matrimony are the couple and not the priest, also Eucharist is given to the infirm by lay ministers often.
.
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As any FYI, the role of distributing Holy Communion is not that of the Minister of the Sacrament. That is a separate role.

You are correct that the couple themselves are the Ministers of Matrimony. And a lay person may, in certain circumstances, licitly Baptize.
 
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