A more lay Church?

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Brendan,

many thanks for your post. It was brief, but very much appreciated.

I am here to discuss, learn and grow in the faith. I may not always be correct, but I would like to feel I am with Catholic friends who are interested and committed.

The US Catholic Church seems polarized at present, but I think there should be room for all. Dominicans and Franciscans may not share the same charisms. Jesuits and Opus Deo members may differ in spirituality, but they are all one in Christ.

In general the discussions in this thread have been respectful, but I felt some were confrontational and negative.

So thanks once more. Your post cheered me up today.

*If then there is any encouragement in Christ, any consolation from love, any sharing in the Spirit, any compassion and sympathy, make my joy complete: be of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind. (NRSV, Phil 2:1,2).
*
 
NoelFitz said:
Brendan,

many thanks for your post. It was brief, but very much appreciated.

I am here to discuss, learn and grow in the faith. I may not always be correct, but I would like to feel I am with Catholic friends who are interested and committed.

The US Catholic Church seems polarized at present, but I think there should be room for all. Dominicans and Franciscans may not share the same charisms. Jesuits and Opus Deo members may differ in spirituality, but they are all one in Christ.

In general the discussions in this thread have been respectful, but I felt some were confrontational and negative.

So thanks once more. Your post cheered me up today.

*If then there is any encouragement in Christ, any consolation from love, any sharing in the Spirit, any compassion and sympathy, make my joy complete: be of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind. (NRSV, Phil 2:1,2).
*
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👍
 
Micosil,
some time ago I submitted a post to Brendan. Can I say ditto to you and thank you for joining in our discussion?
 
peter26 said:
I think this is inevitable. I already know of one church on the other side of town that has no weekday Masses just lay-led communion services. The drop in the number of priests requires a radical solution. Some parishes have brought in priests from Africa, but taking too many priests away from their home countries is hardly fair - they need priests there too. I suppose more priests from religious orders could help to celebrate Mass and hear confessions at nearby parishes. But religious houses are also getting fewer. Ultimately, the Church will have to either make the priesthood more attractive to young men as a career option, make it easier for more mature candidates to pursue ordination or accept more functions being performed by laity.
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Had it not been for priests from Ireland and Germany back in the 19th and early 20th Centuries, the Church in America would have been in a severe priest shortage.

Maybe what needs to happen is for the Church in the U.S. to do a much better job of supporting seminaries and convents in Africa. My understanding is that there are more candidates than places for them. Not to be disrespectful here, but I’m often baffled when I read about some religious organization in the U.S. supporting secular (and sometimes questionable ) not-Catholic organizations here, including ACORN. Why doesn’t that money go to support African seminaries and convents?
 
NoelFitz said:
Bardegaulois,

Thank you for your contribution here. I am pleased you come from a diocese that is active and successful. Irish experience is difficult and we have problems. I have limited experience of permanent deacons and I may be wrong. It has happened before.

You wrote “I doubt much conversation here is possible.” I am saddened to hear this view. I considered CA a place where people of good will could express views sincerely, robustly and with courtesy, and where the integrity and commitment of contributors were not denigrated.

I had hoped that CA would be a place for Catholics to grow in the faith and others to learn about our Catholic faith.

L*et us build a house where hands will reach
beyond the wood and stone
to heal and strengthen, serve and teach,
and live the Word they’ve known.
Here the outcast and the stranger
bear the image of God’s face;
let us bring an end to fear and danger.
All are welcome, all are welcome,
all are welcome in this place.
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I wonder if the citation from a Marty Haugen ditty doesn’t prove my point.

Honestly, my diocese is in a shambles, largely due to a number of priests who do not seem terribly secure about what it means to be a priest, a number of deacons who are almost universally sold on "The Spirit of Vatican II"™, a number of presumptive and poorly catechized layfolk who act as though they have a right to meddle in work that is more appropriately priestly, and poor episcopal oversight.

Our difference, NoelFitz, is that I look at what you are promoting as simply more of exactly what led to this quandary, and that rather than re-adopting the talking points of the 1970s, we should move on along the direction pioneered by Popes Wojtyla and Ratzinger by recovering more of our Catholic tradition and applying it in a contemporary context. It’s the same dynamic between those who favoured “ressourcement” and those who favoured “aggiornamento” around the time of the Second Vatican Council.
 
Ridgerunner,
many thanks for your encouraging comments about Irish and German priests. At present the boot is on the other foot and American Franciscans are working in Ireland in the most deprived parts of Limerick.

rte.ie/tv/wouldyoubelieve/monksofmoyross.html

Also the Papal Nuncio is an American (Charles Brown), and he is excellent - a safe pair of hands. In spite of all our difficulties he is positive and see the constructive signs and thus gives hope and encouragement.
 
Bardegaulois,

In Ireland in spite of all our difficulties and the decline in active Church members the clergy (both bishops and priests) are excellent, keeping the faith and encouraging dwindling and aging congregations. In the parish I attend we are particularly fortunate in the calibre of our priests.

You mention aggiornamento and ressourcement, the former reminds me of the enthusiasm in the Church when Pope St John XXIII was alive, and the latter the scholarly and substantial contributions of Henri de Lubac SJ and Yves Congar OP.
.
You might like to look at ‘Ressourcement’ (OUP, 2012) edited by my friend Fr Gabriel Flynn and Prof. Paul Murray.
 
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