A peaceful man that Muhammad was

[paarsurrey]

Originally Posted by paarsurrey
'Amr have stated that his wife said: I hear a voice which sounds like the voice of murder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paarsurrey
We sense from you a very fine smell.

Save yourself from labor.

Hi
That is a pleasure for me. Nevermind. You are welcome.
By the way, the above quotes **in blue **purporting to be from me ,don’t seem to have been written by me in any of my post.
How did you do that? I want to know the technique.
Thanks

 

[paarsurrey]

What makes you think you have any friends here, paarsurrey? Are there those here that deny the divinity of the Christ, and therefore, can be your friend?

Hi
When a peaceful conversation/discussion is in progress; both sides are considered friends; at least I am a peaceful person I have no feelings of any hatred or animosity in my heart and mind towards my Catholic brethren in humanity.May GodAllahYHWH bless you all!
Thanks

 

[paarsurrey]

I would go with you to the ends of the earth in the name of peace as long as you did not bring Muhammad with you. Peace does not follow Muhammad.

Hi
Then how the peace accord would be ratified, if Jesus and Muhammad are not there ( metahorically ) to shake hands? Let your peace intentions not be marred before blossoming.
Thanks

 

[BelFarfalla]

Hi
The account of this persecution is given in Quran in a separate Chapter/Surah # 18 Al-Kahf (revealed in Mecca). But those were the TrueChristians (perahaps not the Catholics) who had to hide and live in caves in the period of their persecution ( maybe catacombs ),

Is this a nasty remark about Catholics? Calling us not TrueChristians??? Of course is was the Catholics who hid in the catacombs, were fed to lions, etc. They were in Rome among other places. I’ve been to them. Don’t forget that both St Peter and St Paul died as martyrs.

those people have been very much appreciated by Quran/Islam for their steadfastness and showing perseverence on their faith in difficult times. I don’t think any Christian denomination of these days fits on those accounts,

Keep your insults to yourself. There are millions of Catholics and other Christians today who are living under persecutions… almost entirely under persecution by MUSLIMS. Christians (to include Catholics) cannot even freely follow their faith in Muslims countries. Christians are mistreated, beat up, killed… their daughters kidnapped by the tens of thousands and forced to convert to Islam and to marry Muslims pigs ( and yes they are pigs if they will force a child into marriage.) As I’ve said before here, I saw some of this slaughtering for no good reason except the fact that they were Christians. My family had to leave the land of our ancestors BECAUSE OF MUSLIMS who were killing them.

yet GodAllahYHWH revealed those accounts on the heart of Muhammad, maybe to console Muslims who were also being persecuted at hands of the Meccan-Non-Believers. God knows of the Future as he knows of the Present and the Past, He is All-Knowing, then this forms part of our belief in the Unseen.
Thanks

How dare you. How dare you compare the extreme persecution of the early Christians at the hands of the Romans and Jews to the relative lack of persecution Muhammad and company went thought. If anything it was Muhammad and his gang of thugs who were persecuting the pagans and Jews. After the death of Muhammad his followers, using jihad, slaughtered millions of Christians, Jews, Hindus and pagans. Once again it was the MUSLIMS doing the persecution.

Your twisting of history on this just tops it all.

 

[obadiah]

I just wish to remind everybody to use words of kindness while we discuss these things. Al Ham Dulilah.

 

[BelFarfalla]

Hi
Then how the peace accord would be ratified, if Jesus and Muhammad are not there ( metahorically ) to shake hands? Let your peace intentions not be marred before blossoming.
Thanks

But your religion forbids you to take Jews or Christians as friends.

 

[obadiah]

But your religion forbids you to take Jews or Christians as friends.

Again, I ask you to use words of peace. All of us are guilty of reacting against what WE perceive are words of anger. SINS are on BOTH sides. We must restrain ourselves.

 

[BelFarfalla]

Again, I ask you to use words of peace. All of us are guilty of reacting against what WE perceive are words of anger. SINS are on BOTH sides. We must restrain ourselves.

It is a fact that Islam forbids Muslims from being friends with Christains/jews. If it is a fact how is it not peaceful to restate the dogma of the faith.

 

[obadiah]

It is a fact that Islam forbids Muslims from being friends with Christains/jews. If it is a fact how is it not peaceful to restate the dogma of the faith.

I agree with you, but please do not aggrevate bad feelings.

 

[BelFarfalla]

I agree with you, but please do not aggrevate bad feelings.

I’m not sure that it is aggravating bad feeling but instead keeping things in perspective. We do need to remember the goal of this thread… to convert Catholics and other Christians to Islam.

 

[paarsurrey]

The account of this persecution is given in Quran in a separate Chapter/Surah # 18 Al-Kahf (revealed in Mecca).

They were in Rome among other places. I’ve been to them. Don’t forget that both St Peter and St Paul died as martyrs.

Hi
Please don’t be angry; you are a Catholic . Have you read “The account of this persecution given in Quran in a separate Chapter/Surah # 18 Al-Kahf (revealed in Mecca)”? If it matches with the Catholics, for that you shall have to study the whole Chapter very minutely, may be you like or not like things written there, if it is of Catholics it will be to my pleasure, but other Christian denominations may claim that the account is of them. So, please check and verify the accounts mentioned in Quran in Chapter/Surah # 18 Al-Kahf (revealed in Mecca).Please don’t get me wrong and kindly don’t mind, it is just a discussion to reach the truth.
Thanks

 

[paarsurrey]

Of course it was the Catholics who hid in the catacombs, were fed to lions, etc. They were in Rome among other places. I’ve been to them. Don’t forget that both St Peter and St Paul died as martyrs.

Hi
I think what has been mentioned in your above quote, that was not done by hands of the Muslims. Muslims cannot be blamed for taking life of St Peter and St Paul, I must say.
Thanks

 

[MugenOne]

Let say that there was persecution in the early year of Islam, but it was nowhere near what Christians had or have gone through. Christians have been constantly persecuted throughout history up to present time and beyond i.e. Muslim countries, China. Jesus had said you are no better than your master. Plus your account of persecution revealed in Mecca or something was possibly got started because of Islamic nonsense and forcing conversion. The “persecutors” knew it was nonsense and ridiculed them or they were trying to defend their ways of life from your egomaniac founders. And yet you call those actions as persecution. Pub lease!

The account of this persecution is given in Quran in a separate Chapter/Surah # 18 Al-Kahf (revealed in Mecca).

Hi
Please don’t be angry; you are a Catholic . Have you read “The account of this persecution given in Quran in a separate Chapter/Surah # 18 Al-Kahf (revealed in Mecca)”? If it matches with the Catholics, for that you shall have to study the whole Chapter very minutely, may be you like or not like things written there, if it is of Catholics it will be to my pleasure, but other Christian denominations may claim that the account is of them. So, please check and verify the accounts mentioned in Quran in Chapter/Surah # 18 Al-Kahf (revealed in Mecca).Please don’t get me wrong and kindly don’t mind, it is just a discussion to reach the truth.
Thanks

 

[BelFarfalla]

Hi
I think what has been mentioned in your above quote, that was not done by hands of the Muslims. Muslims cannot be blamed for taking life of St Peter and St Paul, I must say.
Thanks

paarsurrey, I did not blame Muslims for persecuting St. Peter and St. Paul… get real. Islam did not exist for another 700 years.

 

[obadiah]

The account of this persecution is given in Quran in a separate Chapter/Surah # 18 Al-Kahf (revealed in Mecca).

Hi
Please don’t be angry; you are a Catholic . Have you read “The account of this persecution given in Quran in a separate Chapter/Surah # 18 Al-Kahf (revealed in Mecca)”? If it matches with the Catholics, for that you shall have to study the whole Chapter very minutely, may be you like or not like things written there, if it is of Catholics it will be to my pleasure, but other Christian denominations may claim that the account is of them. So, please check and verify the accounts mentioned in Quran in Chapter/Surah # 18 Al-Kahf (revealed in Mecca).Please don’t get me wrong and kindly don’t mind, it is just a discussion to reach the truth.
Thanks

Excuse me, I just finished reading Sura 18 and for the life of me I did not read one verse about any persecution. I read about the young men and their dog sleeping in the cave, later Moses and a long story about him. But not one word about any persecution.

 

[Greg27]

However, the main difference is that The Church no longer sanctions violent reprisals or sends out armies; we have evolved, or matured. The past was more violent in general. Many babies didn’t live past their 1st yr, many died at birth. Diseases were rampant, there were often inadequate food supplies. Things must be viewed in context.

From what I have read about Islam and the many contradictions in the Quran, I can’t believe this is a religion worth giving up everything for. Christianity has history to back it up, and is logical (given that one believes the Bible is God-breathed and the Church was given by Jesus to guide and interpret it).

And even though there were bad Popes, not one ever taught the faith wrongly. Sorry to say, even popes are not always perfect or even saintly men.

Peace,
Mimi

Perhaps it is true that Christianity and the CC in particular no longer persecutes those it regards as enemies, but I am inclined to believe this is because in most Christian countries the secular state has divorced itself from the Church, and religion has been kept free of politics, save through the democratic process. I think it is certainly a great achievement of the West that religious violence and persecution was overcome by wise Christians and also wise Western thinkers realising the best solution was to make politics and religion independent of each other, rather than trying to force divine law on all, including non-believers.

A major problem in Islam is that fundamentalists have tried to take over political power (and have in fact done so in several countries) and try to force everyone, believer or not, to adhere to divine law. I also agree at the moment Islam seems to be the world religion most prone to formenting violence and acting it out. However, I still think as a whole in terms of history, claim and counter-claim of brutality and atrocity tends to cancel each other out as the balance sheets, over the course of history, can’t be said to weigh for one religion or another in so far as the monotheistic religions are concerned. Judaism, Christianity and Islam allcontain episodes of violence and undercurrents of violence done or praised in the name of faith through history, and in all religions, sacred scripture has been used to justify violence.

In terms of modern-day Christianity, one needs only to look at the violent fantasies of fundamentalist Christians about how the world is going to end in a gigantic holocaust as described in the book of Revelation, and how the West (led by the U.S.) is going to be God’s instrument in that end. If people like these managed to seize power and implement a theocracy in the US or another Western country, I wonder if they would behave any differently from Saudi Arabia or Iran.

 

[BelFarfalla]

In terms of modern-day Christianity, one needs only to look at the violent fantasies of fundamentalist Christians about how the world is going to end in a gigantic holocaust as described in the book of Revelation, and how the West (led by the U.S.) is going to be God’s instrument in that end. If people like these managed to seize power and implement a theocracy in the US or another Western country, I wonder if they would behave any differently from Saudi Arabia or Iran.

THis is why the vast majority of the Christian world will not allow those nut cases to get a real foothold. THey are the fringe. You will find the same in the secular world… they have their violent nut cases too… some of the more famous ones are Stalin, Lenin, Mao, Pol Pot, Hitler, etc.

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi Greg27!

I appreciate your following points:
Firsterhaps it is true that Christianity and the CC in particular no longer persecutes those it regards as enemies, but I am inclined to believe this is because in most Christian countries the secular state has divorced itself from the Church, and religion has been kept free of politics, save through the democratic process. I think it is certainly a great achievement of the West that religious violence and persecution was overcome by wise Christians and also wise Western thinkers realising the best solution was to make politics and religion independent of each other, rather than trying to force divine law on all, including non-believers.

A major problem in Islam is that fundamentalists have tried to take over political power (and have in fact done so in several countries) and try to force everyone, believer or not, to adhere to divine law. I also agree at the moment Islam seems to be the world religion most prone to formenting violence and acting it out. However, I still think as a whole in terms of history, claim and counter-claim of brutality and atrocity tends to cancel each other out as the balance sheets, over the course of history, can’t be said to weigh for one religion or another in so far as the monotheistic religions are concerned. Judaism, Christianity and Islam all contain episodes of violence and undercurrents of violence done or praised in the name of faith through history, and in all religions, sacred scripture has been used to justify violence.

Third:In terms of modern-day Christianity, one needs only to look at the violent fantasies of fundamentalist Christians about how the world is going to end in a gigantic holocaust as described in the book of Revelation, and how the West (led by the U.S.) is going to be God’s instrument in that end. If people like these managed to seize power and implement a theocracy in the US or another Western country, I wonder if they would behave any differently from Saudi Arabia or Iran.
You are absolutely right, a fine post indeed.
Thanks

 

[Verisimilitude]

Hi
Then how the peace accord would be ratified, if Jesus and Muhammad are not there ( metahorically ) to shake hands? Let your peace intentions not be marred before blossoming.
Thanks

I doubt very seriously Jesus will shake hands with Mohammad on the Last Day.

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi
I continue a short account of Muhammad’s early life:

1. When the Prophet was about twenty-five years old, his
   reputation for integrity and fellow-feeling had spread over the
   whole of the town. People would point admiring fingers at
   him and say, here was a man who could be trusted.
2. This reputation reached the ears of a rich widow who approached
   the Prophet’s uncle, Abu Talib, to let his nephew lead a trading
   caravan of hers to Syria. Abu Talib mentioned this to the
   Prophet and the Prophet agreed. The expedition met with
   great success and brought unexpected profits. The rich widow,
   Khadija, was convinced that the success of the caravan was
   due not only to the conditions of the market in Syria, but also
   to the integrity and efficiency of its leader.
3. She interrogated her slave, Maisara, on this subject, and Maisara supported her
   view and told her that the honesty and sympathy with which
   this young leader of the caravan had managed her affairs would
   not be shown by many persons. Khadija was much impressed
   by this account. She was forty years of age and had already
   been widowed twice. She sent a woman friend of hers to the
   Prophet to find out whether he would be persuaded to marry
   her. This woman went to the Prophet and asked why he had
   not married. The Prophet replied he was not rich enough to
   do’ so. The visitor suggested whether he would agree, if a
   rich and respectable woman were found whom he could marry.
   The Prophet asked who this woman could be, and the visitor
   said she was Khadija. The Prophet apologized, saying that
   Khadija was too highly placed for him. The visitor undertook
   to deal with all difficulties. In that case, said the Prophet, there
   was nothing for him to say but to agree.
4. Khadija then sent a message to the Prophet’s uncle. Marriage between the
   Prophet and Khadija was settled and solemnized. A poor man
   orphaned in childhood had his first peep into prosperity. He
   became rich. But the use he made of his riches is an object-
   lesson to all mankind. After the marriage Khadija felt that
   she was rich and he was poor and that this inequality between
   them would not make for happiness. So she proposed to make
   over her property and her slaves to the Prophet.
5. The Prophet, making sure that Khadija was in earnest, declared that as soon
   as he had any of Khadija’s slaves, he would set them free. And
   he did so. Moreover, the greater part of the property which
   he received from Khadija. he distributed among the poor.
6. Among the slaves whom he thus set free was one Zaid. He
   appeared to be more intelligent and more alert than others.
   He belonged to a respectable family, had been kidnapped as a
   child and sold from place to place until he reached Mecca.
   Young Zaid, newly freed, saw at once that it was better to sacri-
   fice freedom for the sake of slavery to the Prophet. When the
   Prophet set the slaves free, Zaid refused to be freed and asked
   leave to continue to live with the Prophet. He did so, and as
   time went on his attachment to the Prophet grew. But in the
   meantime Zaid’s father and his uncle were on his track and they
   ultimately heard that he was in Mecca. In Mecca they traced
   him in the house of the Prophet. Coming to the Prophet,
   they asked for the liberty of Zaid and offered to pay as much
   ransom as the Prophet should demand. The Prophet said
   that Zaid was free and could go with them as he liked. He
   sent for Zaid and showed him his father and uncle. After the
   parties had met and dried their tears, Zaid’s father told him
   that he had been freed by his kind Master and, as his mother
   was much afflicted by the separation, he had better return
   home. Zaid replied, “Father ! who does not love his parents ?
   My heart is full of love for you and mother. But I love this
   man Muhammad so much that I cannot think of living elsewhere
   than with him. I have met you and I am glad. But separation
   from Muhammad I cannot endure.” Zaid’s father and his
   uncle did their utmost to persuade Zaid to return home with
   them but Zaid did not agree.
7. Upon this the Holy Prophet said, “Zaid was a freed man already, but from today he will be my son.” Seeing this affection between Zaid and the Prophet,
   Zaid’s father and uncle went back and Zaid remained with the
   Prophet (Hisham).
   Thanks