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MMLJ
Guest
This is your thread right?
Did Muhammad acquire/receive the Qu’ran text from The Angel Gabriel?
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Did Muhammad acquire/receive the Qu’ran text from The Angel Gabriel?
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Montalban
Guest
Actually ‘peace’ as Moslems understand it is submission.
Submitting to al-lah’s will means submitting to Islam.
It’s the only state of ‘peace’ for Moslems
That’s a false analogy as there’s no ‘new testament’ of the Koran.
There *is *abrogation of passages, and this is where you miss out again, for in Islam, the peaceful passages came first.
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nonsumd
Guest
Montalban, my brother, if it were as simple as that, there would not be two separate words, salaam and islam.
Tacitus described his own Roman people as spreading devastation and calling it “peace” – that does not mean the Roman thought-world lacked a word that genuinely meant “peace.”
More strange “reasoning” from you. It is, I think, easier for a Christian to distance himself from the bellicose passages of the OT because the Christian has the NT than for a Muslim to distance himself from the bellicose passages of the Qur’an. Therefore, a Christian has less excuse if he takes up violence. Where’s the “false analogy”?
And the non-extremist Muslim will argue that the message of the peaceful passages came back into force once the specific historical situation to which the bellicose passages speak had passed. After that it has been up to Muslims to decide whether an accomodating or a confrontational/defensive posture was necessary in a given situation.
Of course, “accommodating” has included imposing dhimmitude upon non-Muslims, but that is hardly different from how Christians have discriminated against non-Christians or Christians of other sects for all but the first three-plus centuries of Christian history (when Christians did not have access to state power such as to be able to persecute anyone) and, partially, the very recent past (when Christians not only learned tolerance but also lost control of state power to post-Christian elites who would not use state power to persecute people simply because they were not Christians or were Christians of another sect).
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paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
God does everything via angels, whether we can see angels or not that is another thing and a discretion of GodAllahYHWH. The Word of GodAllahYHWH is revealed on every ProphetMessenger through Angel Gabriel, as far as I know, it must have been Angel Gabriel who revealed the verbal text of Quran in original Arabic language on the heart of Muhammad who learnt it by heart and from him learnt his companion and from the companion the next generation till our times this system is intact. The written form is the second and secondary form of security and protection check by far it is not the first check ( we Muslims don’t consider the translation as Word of God).
I think that this answers your question.
I also want to let everybody know that I am not a scholar, I am just an ordinary and common sinful person. If I know the answer I would be replying otherwise I would simply tell my friends that I don’t know the answer, and I expect they would excuse me in the same spirit. I consider everybody, I again repeat everybody my brother/sister and friend in humanity. Love for all, hatred for none.
Thanks
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paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
Though I won’t debate on any topic with Montalban or anyother friend here, but I would be discussing.
There is no abrogation in Quran; the abrogation of all the previous revealed books has been made by Quran, which is a logical thing to collect all the true teachings of all the revealed books and to combine that in one volume; a compact Word of GodAllahYHWH, this way all the revelations have been protected and secured in Quran. The previous revealed books are to be respected and honoured and have the historical value, that is alright, but for actions they stand superceded.
Thanks
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Montalban
Guest
In Islam, they mean submission.
One is to the person “(peace through) Submission (to you)” the other is of the people “We are (in peaceful) submission”
Exactly my point about Moslems!
Except you just demonstrated it yourself with Tacitus!
Because a Christian has NO REASON to do go live by the OT
A Moslem has every reason to live by the Koran.
Show me the person arguing this and how they argued it.
False comparison again, UNLESS you can show in Christian teaching where the Christians doing this, should be doing this.
Like your other bit of Islamic apology that consists of justifying every act of aggression you now seek to bring Christianity down to the level of Islam by stating what some Christians did without any attempt to show any causal links.
More ‘evidence-lite’ discussion from you.
Islam is a comprehensive system that tells how one should treat non-Moslems, regarding war, treaty, submission etc.
Jesus said “Love your neighbour”.
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obadiah
Guest
YOU ARE A LOST SINNER ON YOUR WAY TO HELL UNLESS YOU BELIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR LORD AND GOD. YOU MUST BE BAPTIZED AND CHRISMATED. REPENT SINNER.
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Montalban
Guest
paarsurrey believes the Koran itself abrogates previous messages
What he doesn’t state is that his own version of Islam abrogates the Koran - by believing in ‘messengers’ in addition to Muhammed - why there was a need for further messengers, if the Koran contains it all is a point known only to him
[SIGN]Go Paarsurrey! Go![/SIGN]
What he doesn’t state is that his own version of Islam abrogates the Koran - by believing in ‘messengers’ in addition to Muhammed - why there was a need for further messengers, if the Koran contains it all is a point known only to him
[SIGN]Go Paarsurrey! Go![/SIGN]
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dolphinlove
Guest
I think you should discuss peacefully, logically and rationally with Paarsurrey. His Messenger/Mulla/whateverhisnameis prophet must be as convincing as scientology.paarsurrey believes the Koran itself abrogates previous messages
What he doesn’t state is that his own version of Islam abrogates the Koran - by believing in ‘messengers’ in addition to Muhammed - why there was a need for further messengers, if the Koran contains it all is a point known only to him
[SIGN]Go Paarsurrey! Go![/SIGN]
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MMLJ
Guest
It would be good get some scholarly assistance and I welcome it.
I have another question:
**Why is it a book of this much importance was given through the Angel Gabriel as claimed? **
I ask this because Islam claims how great Muhammad was, so is it not only logical that he should have been in direct contact with GOD?
For example: GOD spoke to Moses and also gave him the 10 Commandments (direct).
Jesus the Christ the Second in the Trinity spoke to GOD (direct).
Q: How do explain that a text of such utmost importance was only imparted by an angel, when others had direct contact with GOD?
I is a simple question and a scholar is not required, it should be common knowledge.
GOD Bless.
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nonsumd
Guest
Montalban, my brother, I have already answered your objections here in other contexts, so I won’t waste my time repeating myself.
You accuse me of tolerating evil, but I suggest you look at your own way of thinking about Islam and Muslims and see whether or not it could lead to ***commiting ***evil.
Again, I ask you to state, “Exterminating Muslims who do not convert to Christianity is not right and not the solution to Muslim extremist violence.”
What “principle” of yours does that violate? The “Never Say Anything to Muslims that Promotes Peace and Goodwll” principle?
Just to encourage you, I will repeat what I have said in the past many times, “Despite what some Muslims claim, Muslims have not by far always been the victims in their relations with non-Muslims – Muslims have been aggressors and oppressors themselves.”
You accuse me of tolerating evil, but I suggest you look at your own way of thinking about Islam and Muslims and see whether or not it could lead to ***commiting ***evil.
Again, I ask you to state, “Exterminating Muslims who do not convert to Christianity is not right and not the solution to Muslim extremist violence.”
What “principle” of yours does that violate? The “Never Say Anything to Muslims that Promotes Peace and Goodwll” principle?
Just to encourage you, I will repeat what I have said in the past many times, “Despite what some Muslims claim, Muslims have not by far always been the victims in their relations with non-Muslims – Muslims have been aggressors and oppressors themselves.”
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Godi
Guest
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Montalban
Guest
Funny then you keep offering Islamic apology
Which is to believe that they’re reacting again - you abrogate responsibility for Moslem evil, even here… like it’s my fault
The principle of you demanding that I make a statement about something I’ve never been concerned with. It’s like me now demanding you make a statement as to whether you support NAMBLA by virtue of the fact you think Muhammed didn’t commit evil - (except if he was provoked)
Yet *you *ascribe that role for them
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paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
You know, I love Jesus and his pious and holy mother Mary. If I do good things I would join them in the heaven, when I die. I don’t grudge you.
No, harm if you do a little research, this is just my suggestion, no compulsion please.
Thanks
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obadiah
Guest
Do you believe that Jesus/Yesua/Issa died on the cross for your sins, was buried, and rose from the dead? Or do you believe what the Qur’an teaches: that Jesus/Yeshua/Issa did not die, but God/Allah/Yahweh took Him?
If you do not believe that Jesus/Yeshua/Issa died in the flesh on the Life Giving Cross, then we do not believe the same thing.
You MUST believe what the Holy Gospel teaches: JESUS DIED IN THE FLESH, ON THE HOLY CROSS, FOR OUR SINS.
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paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
We continue learning about Muhammad’s peaceful life in Mecca:
Thanks
We continue learning about Muhammad’s peaceful life in Mecca:
- The Prophet then returned, and made a circuit of the Ka’ba. Mut’im, his sons and
relatives, with swords unsheathed, then escorted the Prophet
to his house. It was not protection in the customary Arabian
sense which had been extended to the Prophet. The Prophet
continued to suffer and Mut’im did not shield him. Mut’im’s
act amounted to a declaration of formal permission for the
Prophet to return. - The Prophet’s journey to Ta’if has extorted praise even from
the enemies of Islam. Sir William Muir, in his biography
of the Prophet, writes (speaking of the journey to Ta’if) :
There is something lofty and heroic in this journey of
Muhammad to At-Ta’if ; a solitary man, despised and rejected
by his own people, going boldly forth in the name of God,
like Jonah to Nineveh, and summoning an idolatrous city to
repent and support his mission. It sheds a strong light on the
intensity of his belief in the ,divine origin of his calling (Life
of Muhammad by Sir W. Muir, 1923 edition, pp. 112-113). - Mecca returned to its old hostility. The Prophet’s home
town again became hell for him. But he continued to tell
people of his Message. The formula, “God is One”, began to
be beard here and there. With love and regard, and with a
sense of fellow-feeling, the Prophet persisted in the exposition
of his Message. People turned away but he addressed them
again and again. He made his proclamation, whether the
people cared or not, and persistence seemed to pay. The
handful of Muslims who had returned from Abyssinia and had
decided to stay, preached secretly to their friends, neighbours
and relations. Some of these were persuaded to declare
themselves openly and to share the sufferings of other Muslims.
But many, though persuaded at heart, did not have the courage
to confess openly ; they waited for the kingdom of God to come
to the earth. - In the meantime revelations received by the Prophet began to hint at the near possibility of migration from Mecca. Some idea of the place they were to migrate to was also given to him.
It was a town of wells and date-groves. He thought of
But soon the thought was dismissed. He then
waited in the assurance that whatever place they were destined
to go to would certainly become the cradle of Islam. - ISLAM SPREADS TO MEDINA
The annual Hajj drew near, and from all parts of Arabia
pilgrims began to arrive in Mecca. The Prophet went wherever
he found a group of people, expounded to them the idea of
One God and told them to give up excesses of all kinds and
prepare for the Kingdom of God. Some listened and became
interested. Some wished to listen but were sent away by the
Meccans. Some who had already made up their minds,
stopped to ridicule. The Prophet was in the valley of Mina
when he saw a group of six or seven people. He found that
they belonged to the Khazraj tribe, one in alliance with the
Jews. He asked them if they would listen to what he had to
say. They had heard of him and were interested ; so they
agreed. - The Prophet spent some time telling them that the
Kingdom of God was at hand, that idols were going to disappear,
that the idea of One God was due to triumph, and piety and
purity were once again going to rule. Would they not, in
Medina, welcome the Message ? The group became much
impressed. They accepted the Message and promised, on
their return to Medina, to confer with others and report next
year whether Medina would be willing to receive Muslim
refugees from Mecca. They returned and conferred with their
friends and relations. - There were, at the time, two Arab and
three Jewish tribes at Medina. The Arab tribes were the Aus
and the Khazraj and the Jewish tribes the Banu Quraiza, the
Banu Nadir, and the Banu Qainuqa`. The Aus and the
Khazraj were at war. The Quraiza and the Nadir were in
alliance with the Aus and the Qainuqa’ w ith the Khazraj.
Tired of unending warfare, they were inclined to peace. At
last they agreed to acknowledge the Khazraj Chief, 'Abdullah
bin Ubayy bin Salul, as King of Medina. From the Jews,
the Aus and the Khazraj had heard of prophecies in the Bible.
They had heard Jewish tales of the lost glory of Israel and of
the advent of a Prophet “like unto Moses.”
Thanks
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paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
I would believe what I think the reality is, in stead of believing what you might have misconceptions.
Thanks
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obadiah
Guest
Are you saying that the Gospel is a misconception? If Muhammad denied the death and resurrection of Jesus/Yeshua/Issa, then all your prophet Muhammad went through was in vain. If he did not believe that Jesus/Yeshua/Issa Really died on the Life Giving Cross, he is in Hell.
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Montalban
Guest
And Islam’s whole basis is on a god who deceives by *making it appear *that Jesus had died
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Godi
Guest
:knight1:
What a dispicable soul! He would do any thing to justify his exsistance! He preached a religion that the only way it could survive and flourish was by conquest. By the forced subjugation of countless souls. Why, because your religion is so contradictory that no one would take it seriously. Islam never spread by peace. Look at the trail of devastation, Egypt which was 80% Coptic, Christian Syria, Jordan & Turkey. It is understandable why most people look at your muhammad and equate him with Satanic worship. I pray for your souls.
Is this where where the “Satanic Verses” comes in? Where muhammad agrees to worship pagan gods for a year?
What a dispicable soul! He would do any thing to justify his exsistance! He preached a religion that the only way it could survive and flourish was by conquest. By the forced subjugation of countless souls. Why, because your religion is so contradictory that no one would take it seriously. Islam never spread by peace. Look at the trail of devastation, Egypt which was 80% Coptic, Christian Syria, Jordan & Turkey. It is understandable why most people look at your muhammad and equate him with Satanic worship. I pray for your souls.
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