A practical question for Mormons

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Good_Daughter said:
It seems the teachings of the Catholic Church are not as limited as the Word of Wisdom. For instance, a faithful Catholic will try not to overindulge in anything. As it is considered by Mormons to be divine revelation, I’m surprised the WoW doesn’t mention sugar. I know more people addicted to sugar than anything else. In many parts of the world its making us really sick (tooth decay, diabetes, obesity) and even killing us.

Is WoW an appropriate abbreviation for Word of Wisdom? I have no wish to offend.
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The word of wisdom covers a host of other advice such as meats and over indulgence also. The lds are cautioned to eat meat sparingly as one example. However, it is the abstaining of alcohol and coffee and tea that must be followed to enter the temple.
 
Good_Daughter said:
Their lifestyles are a wonderful witness for many things including pro-life to a degree. I just have a hard time understanding how a church can defend unborn life yet leave out “defective” babies or those concieved as a result of tragic circumstances (incest, rape). Don’t those babies need our concern the most? What mother in crisis should have the additional violence of abortion to overcome?

Sanctioning the taking of even a few innocent lives doesn’t seem to make sense for a faith that claims direct and ongoing revelation from God himself.
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I’m not defending the exceptions at all. I just thought your original post on the subject could lead one to believe the LDS had more of a pro-choice doctrine. I thoroughly agree that any exceptions weakens the sanctity of life, which is just another reason to love Holy Mother Church, who has never failed to defend the unborn.
 
why_me said:
This position is pro-life. I think that the lds church also takes into account the feelings of the mother. I do know that abortion is very rare. The lds church has lds adoption services for lds women who do not want their babies. These babies are then placed in lds homes. All lds women know that they can use such a service if desired. Hence, abortion is rare.
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I’m not talking about how often Mormons abort or anything else to judge them, I am commenting strictly on the abortion policy of the LDS Church. Which IMO is not pro-life at all. Once you allow for abortion in:
  1. Rape or incest
  2. Life of the mother
  3. Good health of the mother
Pretty much anyone can get an abortion and fall within one of these three categories because like I said “good health of the mother” is very objective.

Again it has nothing to do with how rare it may be, or anything like that. Just the policy, that’s it, and it is not pro-life. I’m sure many Mormons don’t abort and are pro-life, but the LDS church policy couldn’t be considered pro-life.
 
I left the mormon church about 6 months ago. I can tell you that you’ll see alot of your fellow mormons drinking coffee at Cracker Barrel or having an iced tea. The Word of Wisdom also says to limit meat eating to the winter months and to eat more vegetables. Basically, refraining from alcohol and nicotine is what is followed. It was and is a way for the mormon heirarchy to keep the"mormon culture" seperate from the"gentile culture". If you can control how a person prays( arms folded), what they put in their bodies, and what they read( king james and only authorized church history) then the chance of them leaving the church is decreased. You don’t feel like you fit in to the real world when you do leave. It leaves a big hole that I’ve found protestantism cannot fill. The mormons say its either mormonism or catholocism, one of them has to be truth. Either there was an apostosy or the church did not fall away and is the present-day catholic church.
 
lukewarm said:
I’m not talking about how often Mormons abort or anything else to judge them, I am commenting strictly on the abortion policy of the LDS Church. Which IMO is not pro-life at all. Once you allow for abortion in:
  1. Rape or incest
  2. Life of the mother
  3. Good health of the mother
Pretty much anyone can get an abortion and fall within one of these three categories because like I said “good health of the mother” is very objective.
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Those are your own inventions. The official position of the Church on abortion can be found here and here.

zerinus
 
zerinus said:
Those are your own inventions. The official position of the Church on abortion can be found here and here.

zerinus
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No they are not:

lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/menuitem.b12f9d18fae655bb69095bd3e44916a0/?vgnextoid=024644f8f206c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=29a518e7c379b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1

From LDS.org Policies and Procedures statement on abortion

“The Church opposes abortion and counsels its members not to submit to or perform an abortion except in the rare cases where, in the opinion of competent medical counsel, the life or good health of the mother is seriously endangered or where the pregnancy was caused by rape and produces serious emotional trauma in the mother. Even then it should be done only after counseling with the local presiding priesthood authority and after receiving divine confirmation through prayer.”

Signed by the Frist Presidency
 
lukewarm said:
No they are not:

lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/menuitem.b12f9d18fae655bb69095bd3e44916a0/?vgnextoid=024644f8f206c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=29a518e7c379b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1

From LDS.org Policies and Procedures statement on abortion

"The Church opposes abortion and counsels its members not to submit to or perform an abortion except in the rare cases where, in the opinion of competent medical counsel, the life or good health of the mother is seriously endangered or where the pregnancy was caused by rape and produces serious emotional trauma in the mother. Even then it should be done only after counseling with the local presiding priesthood authority and after receiving divine confirmation through prayer."

Signed by the Frist Presidency
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That is saying pretty much the same thing. “Seriously endangered” is close to “life threatening”. And it is to be determined by competent medical authority, not just anybody. These situations are extremely rare. Even then it is to be done after serious prayer and consultation. I think that the life of the mother is of greater value than the life of the fetus. The fetus can be renewed through another pregnancy. The life of the mother cannot be.

zerinus
 
The fetus can be renewed through another pregnancy. The life of the mother cannot be.

zerinus

What in the world does this mean? That a woman can always have another child, or that the individual soul that was snuffed out can come back again in a later pregnancy?
Since this is a segue from the detrimental effects of coffee and tea, what about the detrimental effects of the abortion procedures?
 
zerinus said:
How do you know? There are many good Catholics who disagree with the Catholic Church’s stance on birth control or priestly celibacy. Perhaps they would.
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Those are NOT good Catholics. Period.
That may be the Catholic Church’s position, but there are many good Catholics who might disagree.
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I repeat…
Thank you. That is very well expressed. I agree with that. The only thing that I would add to that is that the LDS Church has not stated a position as to whether tea and coffee are “objective evils” (as porn would be for example), or merely a matter of “Church discipline”. It would be up to each prospective “restaurateur” to make that decision for herself.
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zerinus
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Come to a faith which does give clear moral guidance, and always has.

Christ’s peace.
 
exiled said:
I’m not defending the exceptions at all. I just thought your original post on the subject could lead one to believe the LDS had more of a pro-choice doctrine. I thoroughly agree that any exceptions weakens the sanctity of life, which is just another reason to love Holy Mother Church, who has never failed to defend the unborn.
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I get what you’re saying on this one. I think where devout Mormons tend to excel at pro-life is the value they place on chastity and modesty especially in dress. A pro-life approach involves much more than just being anti-abortion.

Realistically though, most of the Catholics I know probably live and dress like Mormons!
 
zerinus said:
How do you know? There are many good Catholics who disagree with the Catholic Church’s stance on birth control or priestly celibacy. Perhaps they would.
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A Catholic who disagrees on the Church’s teachings on birth control or priestly celibacy is NOT a good Catholic.
 
zerinus said:
The fetus can be renewed through another pregnancy. The life of the mother cannot be.

zerinus
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No, it can’t. If a woman has an abortion, and gets pregnant later, she is pregnant with a different child, not the one she previously had. Science definitely bears us out on this. The DNA of the previous child that she aborted will be different than the new child. Once the fetus dies, a human being dies, and that human being can never be “renewed.”
 
zerinus said:
. I think that the life of the mother is of greater value than the life of the fetus. The fetus can be renewed through another pregnancy. The life of the mother cannot be.

zerinus
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This gets the weekly prize for the most ridiculous statement about obstetrics and mormon “pro life theology.”

All hail the winner: Zerinus!:whacky:

Really, Z-bot, you have sunk to new lows (when lows were thought to have bottomed out!) with this untrue, goofy assertion.

Robert
 
zerinus said:
I think that the life of the mother is of greater value than the life of the fetus. The fetus can be renewed through another pregnancy. The life of the mother cannot be.

zerinus
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Wow. Now I’m really scared of Mormons.
 
valient_Lucy said:
No, it can’t. If a woman has an abortion, and gets pregnant later, she is pregnant with a different child, not the one she previously had. Science definitely bears us out on this. The DNA of the previous child that she aborted will be different than the new child. Once the fetus dies, a human being dies, and that human being can never be “renewed.”
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But if she (and her fetus) drop dead as a result of (preventable) fatal pregnancy, who gains anything from that?

zerinus
 
why_me said:
How many catholics would be alive today if they also had the word of wisdom. Answer: a lot.

The word of wisdom has saved many people from the evils of alcohol and I would invite all catholics to begin to live its principles, including the abstaining from tobacco.
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Wisdom is one of the seven gifts of the Holy Spirit. The exercise of it is another question altogether. Why doesn’t the “word of wisdom” tell you that God, Christ and the Holy Spirit have existed since before time as One God? You know how much eternal life that knowledge will bring you? A lot of eternity, that’s what.
 
po18guy said:
Wisdom is one of the seven gifts of the Holy Spirit. The exercise of it is another question altogether. Why doesn’t the “word of wisdom” tell you that God, Christ and the Holy Spirit have existed since before time as One God? You know how much eternal life that knowledge will bring you? A lot of eternity, that’s what.
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Your statement of course has nothing to do with what I originally said. 🤷
 
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