A Question About Hell

[Neil_Anthony]

Yes…but could it be a preview of what is to come if I don’t change ?

KH,
Your dream is more like what would happen to you if you went to prison. Hell is worse than prison, but it has some similarities. God isn’t present in hell, and there is no good, only evil. The other beings there are evil, and you would have to live with them. So your dream is about what would happen to you if you end up in a place lacking in good, like prison or hell.
Why the obsession with whether it could be exactly like that? We don’t know what hell is like specifically. But it isn’t going to be nice, and for sure you would be humiliated - that seems to be your greatest fear.
Just work on being good and pray that you can be with God, the source of all good. And pray to get to know Him better.

 

[Podo2005]

But can you guarantee 100% this will not happen to me … can we be certain about it ?

If you really want to guarantee that you won’t go to hell, surrender yourself to God and follow Christ. Love God with all your mind soul and body and love everyone. If you are really a proud person, find some time to think and realize that you are nothing without Christ and try to find ways in which you can better yourself everyday and practice humilty. Perhaps that dream ( although just a dream) was just something that has got you to think about your life in the present situation. Are you serving the Lord with everything you’ve got? if not where can you improve? Take it step by step, if you give yourself totally to God you’ll find yourself doing the things you thought were impossible…

God Bless
Podo

 

[EasterJoy]

Hello,

My name is Paul I am 22 years old and I belong to a knightly order in England. I have never thought about hell before until last night when I had a very terrifying dream. I saw the fires of hell and a demon in the foreground, something I am still afraid of . It has told me there are other eternal torments in hell, not just the lake of fire. The demon told me the following as to what awaits me in hell

''You will be brought here on your white horse in your shining armour and we will change you, change you into a pretty girlie who is very white wearing a short blue dress with no underwear with long blonde hair, you will serve each one of us for all eternity as that girlie , your horse shall be castrated, your manhood will be attached to it’s tail. "

I know it has been just a dream on the one hand but it is so vivid, even now, that I remember every detail. I never experienced anything like this before.
I just want to know if this can really be my fate in hell as punishment for my pride ? Is it really possible I would have to endure it forever ?

Thank you in advance for your response,

Paul.

Be careful about what you allow yourself to be terrified of, and who you listen to.

Really now…would Hell be worth consideration if it were “only” a lake of fire? Honestly…would it be worth consideration if were “only” sitting around in a clean dry room, eating tea and crumpets every day, and yet separated from the love of God, surrounded only by those who know nothing of patience, kindness, piety, or anything having to do with God, who are all proud, boastful, backstabbing, blasphemous, and hateful, where there is neither silence nor music nor ever praise of God? Do you appreciate what you are, when separated from grace? Could you endure that kind of poverty? I think the image of fire is presented so often because we are so numbed to what the worst part of hell would be. Let us face it: without the grace of God, just living with our selves would be a consequence far greater than the physical sufferings that go with it.

Ask yourself, too, the question that a true demon would not have you look at. Why is being a powerless and humiliated little girl, a violated thing of beauty, the worst thing you can think of being? Why would this be the worst torment for you, worse than a lake of fire? Could what you fear be one of the things that betrays what separates you from graces that you lack? You must know that there are little girls in this world, white slaves who have done nothing worse than any of us, nothing to merit the lives they must lead, who suffer exactly the fate you fear so much. They are in your hell right now. Does your life of knightly chivalry extend to their plight? Is there anything you can do about that? Would work in that direction, on their behalf, not give you courage against what you fear? It is something to consider. What the devil would use to paralyze you, God can use to call you to arms! Noblesse oblige, my friend…and love covers a multitude of sins.

The Lord says in the Scriptures hundreds of times: Fear not. Do not spend your life obsessing about yourself, even about what punishment your sins merit. I do not mean that hell is not real or that we should fall into presumption. I mean that guilt and fear have exactly one purpose: to turn your eyes away from the nonsense and lies, from the glamourous and dazzling lies of the Evil One, and towards God. Once you have turned your eyes toward God and repented of your sin, think only about God!

“Rejoice in the Lord always. I say it again: Rejoice! Everyone should see how unselfish you are. The Lord is near. Dismiss all anxiety from your minds. Present your needs to God in every form of prayer and in petitions full of gratitude. Then God’s own peace, which is beyond understanding, will stand guard over your hearts and minds, in Christ Jesus. Finally my brothers, your thoughts should be wholly directed to all that is true, all that deserves respect, all that is honest, pure, admirable, decent, virtuous, or worthy of praise. Live according to what you have learned and accepted, what you have heard me say and seen me do. Then will the God of peace be with you.” Phil. 4:4-9

 

[PrayforMallory]

Why do you think so ?

Let’s see:

Demons
Naked girlies on horses
Knightly Order

Sounds like you need to quit playing so much World of Warcraft.

 

[tobbias88]

For his second question “Do you agree with people that say most people that die go to hell ?” I would have to answer that yes I believe so, from the writings of the saints.

I feel this is a most negative attitude to have to God’s Mercy. If you really believe this then you are basically saying that Jesus’ suffering & death were futile. Your logic means He was defeated by Satan. Really? He lost the Battle since most of humanity has been won over by Satan, who has even defeated God Almighty. Surely you don’t believe that? If the majority of humans go to Hell what on earth was the point of the Divine Plan of Redemption? God being omniscient knows the outcome of this struggle. God being omnipotent cannot be defeated by Evil. If this were truly the case God would not have bothered with mankind in the first place. All creation has been redeemed but humans have Free Will to accept or reject.

Maria Simm the late Austrian mystic who was regularly visited by suffering souls asking for prayer was told by them that even after death one has the ultimate chance of salvation if you accept Jesus as the Son of God & your Saviour. Of course they will have to spend many years - perhaps centuries - in Purgatory.

It is also misleading to say only RCs have hope of salvation - millions of Moslems, Buddhists, etc will be make it there if they lived ‘by their consciences’. In fact there may be more Moslems than Christians in the final tally. What about the millions of BC souls, the millions in Pre-Columbian America etc?

I agree RCs have a wonderful opportunity of shortening their time in Purgatory because of Confession and the Masses, prayers etc. said for them But let us not discourage the greater part of humanity.

 

[onetimeposter]

If you are Catholic and die in a state of grace then you will be saved. If you are a Catholic and die in a state of mortal sin you will go to Hell.
If you are not a Catholic then you have no assurance you will be saved even if you think you live a good life.

Your vision of God sounds like a legalistic monarch, rather than an omnibenevolent Deity.

 

[EasterJoy]

Let’s see:

Demons
Naked girlies on horses
Knightly Order

Sounds like you need to quit playing so much World of Warcraft.

Umm, in England they actually have real knightly orders, lords and ladies, titles, trained calvarymen who really do training in the equestrian arts on real horses, and all of that.

As for demons, I don’t know about his dream, but evil spirits do exist. Nothing they say should be taken at face value, they should be assumed to be liars who can only be trusted to have an unswerving desire to separate us from God, but the legions of Satan are real.

Your vision of God sounds like a legalistic monarch, rather than an omnibenevolent Deity.

I see your point, but let us not supplant one extreme with the other. We may not judge, but we must not suppose that righteousness is somehow besides the point just because we are incompetent in the reading of hearts. The New Testament teaches that we must not judge one another. It does not teach that God will not judge us according to our deeds and the disposition of our hearts. It teaches that eternal life has been made available by the death and resurrection of Our Lord. It does not teach that we may not reject that gift by our actions.

The legalistic lack wisdom and justice. The law of God is not a series of suggestions, but a loving reflection which informs us of the real consequences of our actions. One may as well say that belief in the universal applicablity of Newton’s laws makes one a legalist. The ignorant would say that airplanes violate Newton’s laws. That they are wrong, or even the truth that Newton’s laws do not perfectly encompass the realities of nature, does not make every rock into an airplane.

 

[palmas85]

Now I’m not so sure that hell exists…so your visions about my fate will never happen.

If you are a Christian, and I haven’t read this entire thread, so I don’t know, how can you not be sure? Christ was sure about its existance. He was real sure about it. He had no doubts whatsoever. In fact he spoke of Hell more often than he spoke of anything else or anywhere else,

That is what amazes me about the many progressives who deny the existnace of the place. How can they profess to be Christians and yet reject the thing that Christ spoke of the most?

 

[onetimeposter]

How can they profess to be Christians and yet reject the thing that Christ spoke of the most?

Perhaps they don’t believe in a monarchical theistic God.

Once you stop thinking of God as a Judge or King, it’s easy to see the contradictions of a benevolent Deity allowing his / her creation to suffer eternally for failing to meet legalistic requirements.

 

[giuseppeTO]

Your vision of God sounds like a legalistic monarch, rather than an omnibenevolent Deity.

OneTime,

Thistle’s “vision” of God is not his … it is that of the great doctors of the church including St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Alphonsus, and St. Augustine, not to mention Christ himself who affirms that if you die absent of His Life and Light (i.e., Sanctifying Grace, which is absent if you are in the state of Mortal Sin), your soul is doomed.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Yes, I do get your point. But I fail to realise why turning me into a girl and then punishing me forever … I mean, who decides on the punishment and the nature of it ? If you were to be honest, do you think the punishment in this vision is an adequate one ? I am just thinking out loud.

Knighthorse,

I just have a few comments.

First, demons like to humiliate. They are accusers of the brethren just like their father Lucifer. They are poking fun. They delight in torment.

Second, no one knows for sure what God’s plan is for your life, only you. In my personal opinion, this seeming punishment is not from God. It’s an attempt by the dark ones to make you feel guilty, to give up and to consign yourself to this fate.

Third, do not let the dark ones make you lose your hope. Do not despair. Trust in Christ. Walk in the light as He is in the light. Pray. Do good works. Practice humility. If you are a Catholic, then receive the sacraments. Use holy water liberally on yourself and in the house.

The dark realm thrives on fear. Your expression of fear only feeds their energy. Ask the Lord Jesus to rebuke them. Ask St. Michael the Archangel and your guardian angel to protect your thoughts and your dreams while you sleep.

Hope this helps. Trust in Christ my friend. He has overcome.

Peace…

MW

 

[onetimeposter]

OneTime,

Thistle’s “vision” of God is not his … it is that of the great doctors of the church including St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Alphonsus, and St. Augustine, not to mention Christ himself who affirms that if you die absent of His Life and Light (i.e., Sanctifying Grace, which is absent if you are in the state of Mortal Sin), your soul is doomed.

They lived in a particular time in history, were influenced by the environment in which they lived…all doom and gloom for failing to meet the imposed requirements of the institution of the Roman Catholic Church.

Mortal sin is a creation of the RCC…the scripture to support mortal vs venial vs grave sin, is rather weak. Secondly, the entire theology surrounding what constitutes a mortal sin…is completely the creation of those who held positions of power within the RCC.

 

[giuseppeTO]

They lived in a particular time in history, were influenced by the environment in which they lived…all doom and gloom for failing to meet the imposed requirements of the institution of the Roman Catholic Church.

Mortal sin is a creation of the RCC…the scripture to support mortal vs venial vs grave sin, is rather weak. Secondly, the entire theology surrounding what constitutes a mortal sin…is completely the creation of those who held positions of power within the RCC.

That would be fine if we were only to rely on scripture as the basis for our faith. Of course all Catholics heed, and all Protestants ignore, St. John’s admonition that there is much more that makes up Christ’s instruction to us than the scripture - much more - enough to fill volumes. That makes up the Deposit of Faith which has been passed down to us initially in word and subsequently committed to teaching by the doctors of the church.

Hence the teaching authority of the church is absolute. We don’t get to independently look at scripture and determine what we will believe in based on the relative strength or weakness of scriptural passages.

So your opinion about where the mortal/venial sin teaching comes from is immaterial. The RCC has the power of the keys and in the transmission of faith and morals, it is guaranteed indefectable by Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. It is a bona fide teaching of the church contained in the Catholic Church’s Catechism and is not optional or open to speculation, New Age 21st Century reinterpretation, etc. You don’t have a choice.

 

[onetimeposter]

So your opinion about where the mortal/venial sin teaching comes from is immaterial. The RCC has the power of the keys and in the transmission of faith and morals, it is guaranteed indefectable by Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. It is a bona fide teaching of the church contained in the Catholic Church’s Catechism and is not optional or open to speculation, New Age 21st Century reinterpretation, etc. You don’t have a choice.

That belief had its place and time in history. I see why people thought that way and felt that way about God…it was how they related to the world. God as King and Judge…I get it.

If people are able to form a relationship with God through these means today, then it is a good thing.

I feel that a monarchical theistic view of God just doesn’t add up to reason or stand up to scrutiny.

In order to receive the merits of salvation, one has to first complete the institutional requirements imposed upon them by the leadership of the Church?

Legalistic requirements are necessary for salvation? Omit one requirement and your banished to hell for all of eternity?

That vision of God certainly is the traditional view of God, but for many( myself included) it does nothing towards my building a relationship with God and it doesn’t seem even remotely plausible on any level…not because of how complex it all is, but because of how obviously man made that vision of God is. ( God as King and Judge)

 

[EasterJoy]

They lived in a particular time in history, were influenced by the environment in which they lived…all doom and gloom for failing to meet the imposed requirements of the institution of the Roman Catholic Church.

Mortal sin is a creation of the RCC…the scripture to support mortal vs venial vs grave sin, is rather weak. Secondly, the entire theology surrounding what constitutes a mortal sin…is completely the creation of those who held positions of power within the RCC.

It is one thing to decide that mortal and venial sins are juridical concepts and another to decide that evil actions that sprang willfully from the heart will have no natural consequences upon the soul.

Perhaps they don’t believe in a monarchical theistic God.

Once you stop thinking of God as a Judge or King, it’s easy to see the contradictions of a benevolent Deity allowing his / her creation to suffer eternally for failing to meet legalistic requirements.

It takes some serious doublethink to imagine a God that isn’t theistic, wouldn’t you say?

Let’s look at monarchical: that word refers to rule by a single entity. Would you say that God is not one, or that God isn’t ruler of his own creation? If God is not the ruler, then what difference does it make how benevolent He is? That leaves creation at the mercy of the likes of us. Do you think God is just a “force”, and that we are the brains of the universe as we know it? This is an improvement in our state?

So, let’s get back to the “legalism” thing. How, pray tell, would God be able to make one of His creatures happy if that creature willed otherwise? Is it legalistic to decree that you will do damage to yourself if you insist on running headlong into brick walls? Is it legalistic to decree: “Thou Shalt Not run headlong into Brick Walls, or thine head will be damaged”? Ah, you want this creature to have his cake and eat it too: lacking divine wisdom, to be his own god and yet be happy in his errant choices. This is non-sensical. Perhaps you would rather that the creature not have choices that are of any consequence, or not have choices at all, that free will is also a false construct. Again: is this an improvement? Does it even coincide with your day-to-day experience?

The problem doesn’t come with God being Judge and King. The problem comes in imagining that God behaves as fallen humanity does. On that, we can agree. God’s laws are not arbitrary. They reflect the reality of what it is to be a free human being and what it is to be a slave to the ignorance and blindness of sin. But deciding that one can blithely go through life making whatever choices one arbitrarily decides on without any consequences is ridiculous. Surely you know better than that in your day-to-day life. Why would this change when the results of our actions were seen out to their full conclusions?

There are people in this life who suffer the consequences of evil right now. They will tell you that evil is not a theoretical construct. Evil is a reality. What good can possibly be accomplished by insisting otherwise? Do you believe that the soul has no silent killers, like diabetes and coronary artery disease are in the body, but only obvious ones, like broken legs and burns? Don’t we all know ourselves to have been blithely unaware of the damage we did to ourselves in choosing to ignore the natural consequences we knew by our educations that our choices would have? Were those natural consequences different for the uneducated? Again, it violates common sense to think in this way with regards to eternity.

The laws of God are precious; they are sight for the blind. Without them, we are lost. Yet God in His mercy may save anyone who does not willfully oppose him in the end. The question is how many of these unmerited chances to choose God is any of us going to get? We should not presume these opportunities are limitless or that after a lifetime habit of deciding otherwise that these chances are necessarily easily taken advantage of. Love of our own will is not an easy habit to break. (Besides being no way to live even now, as any of us might also readily attest!)

The Church does not teach that Buddhists may not be saved, only that all those who are saved are saved by Jesus Christ. The ordinary means of salvation is conversion to the Gospel during life. By what mechanism God might accomplish extraordinary salvation is up to God…and by extraordinary, I do not mean less common, but less straightforward, less obvious, and more arduous, like taking the long route instead of the shortest, most direct, and least perilous one.

 

[RebeccaJ]

They lived in a particular time in history, were influenced by the environment in which they lived…all doom and gloom for failing to meet the imposed requirements of the institution of the Roman Catholic Church.

Mortal sin is a creation of the RCC…the scripture to support mortal vs venial vs grave sin, is rather weak. Secondly, the entire theology surrounding what constitutes a mortal sin…is completely the creation of those who held positions of power within the RCC.

First:
1 Timothy 1:5 ** The aim of this instruction is love from a pure heart, a good conscience, and a sincere faith.**I will add that during my instruction in RCIA, I faced this same hurdle as you are facing now. Authoritarian rule is not “my thing”. There is a difference between authoritarian and authoritative. The Catholic Church is not authoritarian, if it were, I would not be Catholic. I do however accept and believe that the Catholic Church is Christ’s Church, and as such, holds the authority to act in charity and love in order to bring all to salvation.

Continuing on in 1 Timothy chapter 5…
12 I am grateful to him who has strengthened me, Christ Jesus our Lord, because he considered me trustworthy in appointing me to the ministry. 13 I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and an arrogant man, but I have been mercifully treated because I acted out of ignorance in my unbelief. 14 ** Indeed, the grace of our Lord has been abundant, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.** 15 This saying is trustworthy and deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. Of these I am the foremost. 16 ** But for that reason I was mercifully treated, so that in me, as the foremost, Christ Jesus might display all his patience as an example for those who would come to believe in him for everlasting life.** 17 ** To the king of ages**, incorruptible, invisible, the only God, honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.The bold parts are what I believe to be the most important pieces. Of Reconciliation, certainly, but why it is that we must reconcile ourselves to God.

The grace of our Lord is abundant. He treats us mercifully, and is patient. And lastly to your question about why we call Him King, because that is who He is,the King of all creation, as there is no other.

The Catholic Church does not place this idea that you seem to have, that Christ is King in the sense of an unjust and unruly dictator.

Christ proclaimed Himself King, and Judge. His rule is just. The Way is clear.

To quote a friend of mine: “It is important not to reduce God to a moral policeman. God, who is Father, Son, and Spirit, is love. Love is kind and forgiving, indulgent and understanding, as well as patient.”

May you find peace in His arms.

Rebecca

 

[palmas85]

Perhaps they don’t believe in a monarchical theistic God.

Once you stop thinking of God as a Judge or King, it’s easy to see the contradictions of a benevolent Deity allowing his / her creation to suffer eternally for failing to meet legalistic requirements.

Well, if that is the case then why did Christ speak so passionately and so often about it? I’m relatively sure that Christ has some idea what he was talking about, don’t you agree?

 

[giuseppeTO]

That belief had its place and time in history. God as King and Judge…I get it.

I don’t think you do. He still is.

I feel that a monarchical theistic view of God just doesn’t add up to reason or stand up to scrutiny.

One’s feelings cannot be the basis for morality or legality. That is the biggest problem in today’s world.

In order to receive the merits of salvation, one has to first complete the institutional requirements imposed upon them by the leadership of the Church?

Excuse me, but the Lord God Himself is the author of the Commandments that form the basis for what we are morally obliged to do and not do. And the leadership of the Church is imposed on us by Christ himself.

Legalistic requirements are necessary for salvation? Omit one requirement and your banished to hell for all of eternity?

That vision of God certainly is the traditional view of God, but for many( myself included) it does nothing towards my building a relationship with God and it doesn’t seem even remotely plausible on any level…not because of how complex it all is, but because of how obviously man made that vision of God is. ( God as King and Judge)

OTP - I think you are in the wrong religion, assuming you are Catholic. If you are under 50 years old, I can’t say that I blame you because this is fairly typical of the modern Catholic and exemplifies the crisis that the Church finds itself in.

Just to be clear, you are rejecting the power that Christ gave, without qualification, to St. Peter (and hence to the Holy See) to declare what is lawful and what is not. And yes, St. Peter was a man and so is the rest of the hierarchy of the Church and when they make a law or clarify/document a belief by Papal proclamation or promulgate a belief via the Catechism, those are in fact man made laws and orations whose fidelity is guaranteed by the Holy Ghost.

What you don’t seem to understand is that, as a Roman Catholic, you are bound by the faith as promulgated by the Holy See and you don’t have the option to disobey what you feel is archaic or inconvenient. If that is how you feel, then your thoughts are heretical.

Legalistic requirements are necessary for salvation? Omit one requirement and your banished to hell for all of eternity?

Out of curiosity, which of the grave sins do you think you should be able to break and get a Mulligan on? Which of the following sins do you think you can commit, not be remorseful and seek absolution for, and still enjoy heaven: Thou shall not kill? Thou shall not steal? Thou shall not commit adultery? Thou shall not bear false witness? Are you saying one little killing should be OK? One little act of adultery that you are proud of and not remorseful for?

 

[onetimeposter]

Well, if that is the case then why did Christ speak so passionately and so often about it? I’m relatively sure that Christ has some idea what he was talking about, don’t you agree?

The words of Christ were written down, in some cases, many centuries after he was crucified.

Have you ever thought that perhaps the stories as expressed in the Bible, are a direct reflection of the people living in that time in history and they are stories that people could relate to?

I don’t think God can be placed neatly in a box that has him defined as a King or Judge.

King and Judge, that is precisely what ancient man could relate to in regards to a higher power.

 

[Miles_Mariae]

Have you ever thought that perhaps the stories as expressed in the Bible, are a direct reflection of the people living in that time in history and they are stories that people could relate to?

Interesting. So is there a truth that will set us free? Have you ever thought about how you might know what that truth is?