A question about modern Judaism

Status
Not open for further replies.
C

CathBoy1

New member
I was wondering why modern day practicing Jews no longer offer ritualistic sacrifice for repentance of their sins?

As I understand it, Ancient Jews recognized the need for sacrifice to be made at the altar in repentance from sin, even at Passover the lamb was slaughtered in a sacrificial manner and the blood was painted around the door of the household.

I guess my question is that if the Old Covenant is still in effect the same as it was many, many years ago, as practicing Jews today I’m sure would claim, then why do they not continue to do as the Old Covenant teaches and offer sacrifice at the altar of the Lord in repentance of their sins?
 
CathBoy1 said:
I was wondering why modern day practicing Jews no longer offer ritualistic sacrifice for repentance of their sins?
Click to expand...
Sacrifice can only occur in the Temple, the Second Temple was destroyed in AD 70. There has been no sacrifice since then.
There is more then 1 Covenant in the Old Testament. All Covenants still hold, God does not break His Covenants, people do.

From a Christian Perspective the New Testament Covenant is never broken by God either.
 
Last edited:
No temple. What’s really interesting, is that the Samaritans don’t have a temple anymore either, but they still offer sacrifices, if I recall correctly
 
I was under the understanding that the Old Covenant is broken by our Lord himself…When Abraham and the Lord (cauldron and torch) walk between the split sacrifices its as if they are saying “may this befall me if I break my Covenant” God upholds the covenant even if the people of Israel break it. But our Lord is able to break the Covenant and extend the promise to all people because the Lord offers himself as a sacrifice on the cross thus ratifying the proper conditions to break said covenant.

and for the OP, modern Judaism doesn’t make sense anyway because the Temple is gone. Isaiah 53 described our Lord Himself…this verse is even banned in some Jewish communities because of the implication.
 
Last edited:
OurLadyofSorrows said:
Sacrifice can only occur in the Temple, the Second Temple was destroyed in AD 70. There has been no sacrifice since then.
Click to expand...
What about the ritualistic slaughter of the sacrificial lamb at Passover?

Is there any particular reason for not continuing this tradition?

Also what are modern Jews to do for the repentance of their sins, as they (or at least the ancient Jews) recognize the need for sacrifice to be made in repentance?
 
It has to be offered at the temple. That’s why the Jewish all made a pilgrimage to Jerusalem in Jesus’ day.

That’s exactly my point, they cannot forgive their sins…Jesus made that possible through the new Melchizedek priesthood. The old Levitical priests kinda broke the tradition when they said “we have no King but Caesar”
 
Last edited:
ColoradoCatholic said:
and for the OP, modern Judaism doesn’t make sense anyway because the Temple is gone.
Click to expand...
I’m kinda getting that vibe too, that’s why I asked the original question.
In my point of view as a Catholic, Christianity supersedes Judaism, it is the fulfillment of Judaism, therefore Judaism has now became inadequate.
It seems to me that the ancient Jews recognized the need for ritualistic sacrifice for the remission of their sins, modern-day Jews are unable to make ritualistic sacrifice due to their laws saying that it must be performed at the temple, and as previously noted there is no temple, hence no true form of Judaism.
 
Last edited:
For clarification, I am not trying to tear apart Judaism.
I am just trying to understand how they reconcile their belief in the need of ritualistic sacrifice for the remission of sins with the plain simple fact that they haven’t been able to make one such sacrifice in nearly 2000 years, it kind of seems that the religion is greatly falling short of what they traditionally believed in and required.
 
Catholicism doesn’t just supersede IMO its IS the new Israel, the new people of God.
CathBoy1 said:
Judaism has now became inadequate.
Click to expand...
Correct.
CathBoy1 said:
It seems to me that the ancient Jews recognized the need for ritualistic sacrifice for the remission of their sins, modern-day Jews are unable to make ritualistic sacrifice due to their laws saying that it must be performed at the temple, and as previously noted there is no temple, hence no true form of Judaism.
Click to expand...
So very true. As stated previously…Judaism didn’t become obsolete…it was just fulfilled, not replaced (which trends in some forms of Protestantism that argue sacrifice isn’t necessary anymore). then again none of this is intelligible if you don’t know cultural Judaism, historical Judaism, and the earliest Church Fathers…MOST OF WHICH were JEWS!!! lol (that recognized Christ as God!)

Edit: not trying to tear it apart either, but I get very psyched about telling the truth that often gets thrown aside by so many.
 
Last edited:
Jews recognize two types of sin and two ways to sin. There are community sins and personal sin. There are intentional sins and unintentional sins. The sacrifices in the Temple were for the community. Because the community no longer is bound to the non existing Temple, neither is the animal sacrifices.
For personal sins, Jews never had to make animal sacrifices. Prayer and good deeds have always been enough and still are.

If the Temple should ever be rebuilt, then the animal sacrifices would resume as they are needed for the ritual purity in the Temple itself. Until then, Jews are forgiven whenever they pray for forgiveness and/or perform mitzvot (good deeds). You need to learn the purposes of the ritual slaughters to understand what those provided.
 
OurLadyofSorrows said:
40.png
CathBoy1:
I was wondering why modern day practicing Jews no longer offer ritualistic sacrifice for repentance of their sins?
Click to expand...
Sacrifice can only occur in the Temple, the Second Temple was destroyed in AD 70. There has been no sacrifice since then.
There is more then 1 Covenant in the Old Testament. All Covenants still hold, God does not break His Covenants, people do.

From a Christian Perspective the New Testament Covenant is never broken by God either.
Click to expand...
The Mosaic/Sinai covenant is broken, and it was broken at the time of the Babylonian exile. It is broken because unlike the Abrahamic and Davidic covenants, the Mosaic covenant was conditional: it imposed obligations on the people and on God. The Abrahamic and Davidic covenants were unconditional: God imposed obligations only on himself. This is why we see Jesus as the fulfillment of the Abrahamic and Davidic promises.

Because the Mosaic covenant was conditional and bilateral, it was swept away with the destruction of the First Temple and the exile of the people to Bablylon. Jeremiah himself confirms this (31:31-33), and promises the establishment of a New Covenant.

The thing is, after the Return, no one rose to establish this New Covenant. The next time we hear of a New Covenant being established is when Jesus himself says it.

And while I don’t know about the rest of you, but if Jesus’ words weren’t enough to fulfill Jeremiah’s prophecy, I would certainly take the event of AD 66 as a signal that the Mosaic Covenant was definitely no longer in effect. And that’s from a Jewish source, not a Christian one.
 
Last edited:
Well it would seem that Judaism has let down its communities for nearly 2000 years in being unable to make sacrifices for the community, that’s exactly the point I’m making.
It seems to me that Judaism is failing modern day practicing Jews, or am I wrong?
Then again, modern day practicing Jews may not be practicing the Judaism of the ancient Jews 🤷‍♂️
 
CathBoy1 said:
Well it would seem that Judaism has let down its communities for nearly 2000 years in being unable to make sacrifices for the community, that’s exactly the point I’m making.
It seems to me that Judaism is failing modern day practicing Jews, or am I wrong?
Then again, modern day practicing Jews may not be practicing the Judaism of the ancient Jews 🤷‍♂️
Click to expand...
The (religious) Judaism that exists today descends from Rabbinic Judaism, the successor of Pharisaic Judaism, the only sect to survive the destruction of the Second Temple. The survivors needed to find new meanings and interpretations of the Scriptures since obviously they could no longer fulfill their precepts.

And of course we also know that today, different flavours of Jews (Orthodox, Reform, Conservative, secular) approach Torah differently.
 
porthos11 said:
And of course we also know that today, different flavours of Jews (Orthodox, Reform, Conservative, secular) approach Torah differently.
Click to expand...
The same can be said about Christians, yet when we look at Christians with Apostolic Succession, they practice Christianity in the same way as it was by the early Church, whereas I don’t know of one sect of Judaism that practices ritualistic sacrifice as traditional Judaism had since the time of Abraham.
 
No, it’s not the same practices without the Temple. Rabbinic Judaism rose out from the destruction of the Temple and the diaspora. Is it failing them? Well, they’re still around and practicing all over the world! We still have Yom Kippur for the community forgiveness. It’s just not in the Temple. Would Catholicism feel they weren’t forgiven if the Vatican disappeared? If it was diasporized like the Jews were? I doubt it. It’s not a perfect analogy but was all I could think of on short notice.

The loss of the Temple is why Jews still pray for its restoration. I don’t think the Jews feel like anything is particularly lacking without the Temple but the still know all the rites and ceremonies should it ever be rebuilt. Until then, they’re doing quite fine. Gods still listening and forgiving them.
 
Pattylt said:
Would Catholicism feel they weren’t forgiven if the Vatican disappeared?
Click to expand...
No, I don’t think so, but if this coronavirus pandemic has showed me anything, it is that I feel lost being unable to receive the Eucharist weekly.

That said, Jews without ritualistic sacrifice seems like Catholics without ritualistic sacrifice (the Eucharist), and without the Eucharist, what would be the point of Catholicism?
 
CathBoy1 said:
40.png
Pattylt:
Would Catholicism feel they weren’t forgiven if the Vatican disappeared?
Click to expand...
No, I don’t think so, but if this coronavirus pandemic has showed me anything, it is that I feel lost being unable to receive the Eucharist weekly.

That said, Jews without ritualistic sacrifice seems like Catholics without ritualistic sacrifice (the Eucharist), and without the Eucharist, what would be the point of Catholicism?
Click to expand...
Yes, so what is it about this that’s bothering you? Jews are not able to fulfill Torah.

If your question was “Why don’t they sacrifice anymore?” that is the answer. There is no Temple. No more, no less. Without the Temple, they are unable to fulfill these precepts.

What other answers then are you looking for?
 
porthos11 said:
What other answers then are you looking for?
Click to expand...
How do modern Jews reconcile their need of ritualistic sacrifice for the remission of their sins with the fact that for nearly 2000 years they have been unable to make such a sacrifice?

Or do modern Jews not recognize the need for ritualistic sacrifice?
 
CathBoy1 said:
40.png
porthos11:
What other answers then are you looking for?
Click to expand...
How do modern Jews reconcile their need of ritualistic sacrifice for the remission of their sins with the fact that for nearly 2000 years they have been unable to make such a sacrifice?

Or do modern Jews not recognize the need for ritualistic sacrifice?
Click to expand...
Then you should be asking Jews.

Why not loop in our resident Jewish friend @meltzerboy2? He’s Reform but can probably speak to Orthodox and Conservative views as well.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top