A question about modern Judaism

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Crusader13 said:
share our beliefs and witness to them of the hope that is in us
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As a very long-timer here on CAF and a participant (some years ago now, of course) in some of the hottest disputes, I’d suggest the key to dialogue is understanding the boundaries and knowing when to stop.
 
ColoradoCatholic said:
But our Lord is able to break the Covenant and extend the promise to all people because the Lord offers himself as a sacrifice on the cross thus ratifying the proper conditions to break said covenant.
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I think that’s not a good way to phrase that. All the lambs that were sacrificed pointed forward to when Christ would be the lamb of God. He is not the breaker of the Covenant, He is the fulfillment of the Covenant. In a like manner, the manna that came from Heaven pointed forward to Jesus in the Eucharist, who is the Bread of Life. A foreshadowing.
 
The LORD does not require what is impossible: The laws of sacrifice presuppose the Temple; without it they cannot happen.
If you could get rid of that pesky mosque sitting on the Temple Mount (without causing World War III), the Temple could be re-built. If that happened, the animal sacrifices could resume.
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God made a number of Covenants with the Chosen People, and they all continue to this day. God does not break or set aside His Covenants.

Christ our True God created a new Covenant in his own blood shed at Golgotha.

Some of the responses on this thread have a tone of disrespect for the Jewish people, which is wrong:
  • They retain their place as the ones chosen by God, and are our elder brothers in faith.
  • All the principal members of our Church came forth from Judaism.
  • Our special relationship with them was highlighted in one of the documents of Vatican II, Nostra Aetate.
Let us all pray for the Jewish people, the first to receive the word of God,
Deacon Christopher
 
Diaconia said:
Some of the responses on this thread have a tone of disrespect for the Jewish people, which is wrong:
  • They retain their place as the ones chosen by God, and are our elder brothers in faith.
  • All the principal members of our Church came forth from Judaism.
  • Our special relationship with them was highlighted in one of the documents of Vatican II, Nostra Aetate .
Let us all pray for the Jewish people, the first to receive the word of God,
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Excellent.
 
Kaninchen said:
As a very long-timer here on CAF and a participant (some years ago now, of course) in some of the hottest disputes, I’d suggest the key to dialogue is understanding the boundaries and knowing when to stop.
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I agree with you there. I’m not sure if your comments were directed specifically at me or just the discussion at hand. Up till now I’ve only commented 5 times, including this post. I’m not sure what boundaries I may have crossed, but please let me know in what way this occurred.
 
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Diaconia said:
Some of the responses on this thread have a tone of disrespect for the Jewish people, which is wrong:
  • They retain their place as the ones chosen by God, and are our elder brothers in faith.
  • All the principal members of our Church came forth from Judaism.
  • Our special relationship with them was highlighted in one of the documents of Vatican II, Nostra Aetate .
Let us all pray for the Jewish people, the first to receive the word of God,
Deacon Christopher
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I agree with your comments and if there was a tone of disrespect, could you point out what exactly you’re referring to. I think in all charity, we should highlight the disrespect, so we can prevent it from occurring in the future.
 
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No, I won’t single anyone out.

Everyone should proofread their own responses, before hitting “reply.” This is good advice for any thread, not just this one.

For those who do not understand the special place the Jewish people occupy in Catholic teaching they should inform themselves. Nostra Aetate is a good document to read, for example - that’s why I listed it.

Deacon Christopher
 
No, I meant ancient Jews slaughtered lambs every Passover in a ritualistic manner to be roasted for the Passover meal and the blood to be placed around their doors, why is this not practiced anymore?
 
CathBoy1 said:
No, I meant ancient Jews slaughtered lambs every Passover in a ritualistic manner to be roasted for the Passover meal and the blood to be placed around their doors, why is this not practiced anymore?
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Those Passover lambs were slaughtered where? You guessed it! The Temple. And people would carry the sacrifice back to their homes. After the Temple’s destruction in 70 CE, the Sanhedrin at first decreed that each family should continue the sacrifice in their own homes. But other rabbis believed that this sacrifice could only be conducted by the priests in the Temple. In time, those rabbis who believed the latter gained the upper hand, and so the practice ceased within two generations of the Temple’s destruction.

See this informative article for more information: Why Jews Stopped Sacrificing Lambs and Baby Goats for Passover.
We don’t know exactly how this ritual was carried out during the First Temple period, but the Mishna (c. 200 C.E.) gives a detailed account of how it was practiced at the end of the Second Temple period. . . .

Each representative handed his goat or sheep to a priest who killed the animal, carefully collecting its blood into a bowl. Once the bowl was full, it was transferred to the priest beside him. From him it went to the one beside him, until, like a conveyor belt, it reached another priest who doused the altar with its bloody contents. After the blood has been completely collected, the priest handed the now-dead animal to the representative, who took it and hung it on a hook. Levites came over and removed the skin and innards, which were taken to the altar and burned. Once this was done, the representatives each took their dead goat or sheep and left the Temple compound to find their families. Then each family roasted the meat on a pomegranate branch and ate it in a festive night barbecue.
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CathBoy1 said:
Well it would seem that Judaism has let down its communities for nearly 2000 years in being unable to make sacrifices for the community, that’s exactly the point I’m making.
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Don’t you think that is a question for Jews to answer?
It seems to me that Judaism is failing modern day practicing Jews, or am I wrong?
Then again, modern day practicing Jews may not be practicing the Judaism of the ancient Jews
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I would be careful with this. The idea that the Jews of today are not “real Jews” is a common anti-Semitic trope (not saying you are using it that way), which has been used to justify persecution. It is up to Jews to decide what the proper practice of their religion is, just like the proper practice of Catholicism is up to Catholics.
 
TMC said:
The idea that the Jews of today are not “real Jews” is a common anti-Semitic trope
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I honestly didn’t mean it that way, and if it has been perceived this way I apologize to anyone that I may have offended, as I am ignorant of Judaism on a whole, what I had meant was to the effect of different branches of Christianity, I wouldn’t call Baptist’s not Christian, just a different form of Christian from a Catholic or Anglican, yet still Christian.
 
CathBoy1 said:
I honestly didn’t mean it that way, and if it has been perceived this way I apologize to anyone that I may have offended, as I am ignorant of Judaism on a whole, what I had meant was to the effect of different branches of Christianity, I wouldn’t call Baptist’s not Christian, just a different form of Christian from a Catholic or Anglican, yet still Christian.
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OK, I get that. That’s why its important to be educated (and it appears you are doing that). I have seen many people on line explaining that Jews today are not real Jews, that they do not “really” practice Judaism like the Jews of old. It seems like an academic theological discussion until they suddenly jump to explaining why that means that the things the Church teaches about respecting our spiritual elders do not apply to today’s Jews. From there its a short step (or maybe no step) to bigotry.
 
CathBoy1 said:
No, I meant ancient Jews slaughtered lambs every Passover in a ritualistic manner to be roasted for the Passover meal and the blood to be placed around their doors, why is this not practiced anymore?
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Lambs cannot be sacrificed because it was only done in the Temple at Jerusalem. Two temples were built, one was destroyed in BC times and the people dragged off to Babylon. Ever heard the song ‘by the rivers of Babylon’? that song is from a Psalm the Jewish people wrote whilst in captivity in Babylon. They used their harps and song in worship at the Temple at Jerusalem, it was destroyed. The Babylonians wanted them to play, but they said no, and hung up their harps. Years later Cyrus the Great captured Some did and started building a second Temple. The Temple was not finished for a long time. The second Temple stood until AD 70 , when Romans destroyed it. The only sacrifice that can happen is in the Temple in Jerusalem as per Torah -Jewish Law. Now the Passover is not celebrated as it was in those days.
If a third Temple ever gets built, the big question is, will sacrifice resume.
 
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Short answer: because sacrifices can only be performed in the Temple, and there is no longer a temple

Deuteronomy 12:1-14 is a great starting reference for this topic.

Hope this helps.
 
OurLadyofSorrows said:
Years later Cyrus the Great captured Some did and started building a second Temple
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This should read 70 years later Cyrus the Great captured Babylon and allowed the Jews to return to their homeland. There they started rebuilding the Temple and returning to their religious roots. One example of this was that all marriages to non Jewish women were to be ended.
 
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TMC said:
That’s why its important to be educated (and it appears you are doing that). I have seen many people on line explaining that Jews today are not real Jews, that they do not “really” practice Judaism like the Jews of old. It seems like an academic theological discussion until they suddenly jump to explaining why that means that the things the Church teaches about respecting our spiritual elders do not apply to today’s Jews. From there its a short step (or maybe no step) to bigotry.
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I don’t follow that. Jesus is the Messiah of the Jews. He is the King of the Jews. “If you believed in Moses you would believe in Me.” All of the promises and inheritance of Abraham and of the people called Jews, is found in the Church that Jesus established to fulfill the Old Testament. Everything outside of that is a rejection of God, opposition to Christ. Jesus made that clear. As with every false religion it is not from God. (He used strong words which need not be quoted).
So, how could modern day Jews, who reject their own Messiah, be the same as the faithful Jews of ancient times? The Jews who rejected their Messiah were condemned by Jesus and by St. John - very clearly.
Even in just practical, logical terms - Reform Jews are the same as Jews were during the time of Moses, or of David? Reform Jews are not “real Jews”?
I posted something that indicates that Reform Jews are not considered “less Jewish” than Orthodox. And in logical terms, they cannot be since there is nothing that establishes what Jews should or should not be doing today. They have no prophet that speaks for God, and therefore no divine mandate.
Modern Judaism broke away from their own King and Messiah and became apostate.
 
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CathBoy1 said:
For clarification, I am not trying to tear apart Judaism.
I am just trying to understand how they reconcile their belief in the need of ritualistic sacrifice for the remission of sins with the plain simple fact that they haven’t been able to make one such sacrifice in nearly 2000 years, it kind of seems that the religion is greatly falling short of what they traditionally believed in and required.
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Well, how did the Jews reconcile their belief in the need of ritualistic sacrifice in the time period between the First and Second Temple?
 
JSRG said:
Well, how did the Jews reconcile their belief in the need of ritualistic sacrifice in the time period between the First and Second Temple?
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25 years after the destruction of the first temple, the prophet, sent by God, Ezechiel, told them that a second temple would be built.
We don’t see that parallel today. Many Jews have given up the belief in the need for ritualistic sacrifice and many others have given up belief in the need for a Messiah.
I find the question to be a good one. How can modern Judaism be reconciled with the Judaism of history - lacking not only a temple, or an agreed-upon ritual, as well as man-made understandings of belief - but most importantly without a Prophet to lead them?
 
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Ethiopian Jews practice pre-exilic Babylon sacrifices

Rabbinical Judaism began centuries after Jesus…
 
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