A question for Non-denominationals

[1beleevr]

I am active in the pro-life movement
I write two blogs defending the faith, utilizing my talents
I am getting an education, in order to develop my talents
I generally don’t like to brag, as it lessens the value of my works in the Lord by enhancing pride.

I do not advertise for the most part, what works I am involved in, when serving God. Most people hear about the ministries I am involved in by word-of-mouth! I like to look at it as my being so excited for the privilege of serving, I must share it with my brothers and sisters. Someone at work, whom I’m not sure is a believer or not, asked me about the nursing home ministry that my wife and I administer, and they said, “That is so cool, that someone cares about seniors and shut-ins!” Believe me, if I wasn’t working full time still, I would definitely be involved in more outreaches fo Christ, and missionary work(Jesus said, “You will be my witnesses to the world.”) But I believe that God has me just where He wants me, and Idon’t want to get burned out! But everyone I meet, is an opportunity to help, or witness to! I keep a box of food in my car, because you never know when the need will arise; there’s a lot of hunger out there, and for food too!

 

[Eutychus123]

I have gotten into discussions, both here and elsewhere, wherein non-denominational Christians insist that they are not Protestant. This befuddles me. The theology of non-denominationals is very much built on the theology of the Reformation, so why the denial of the facts?

They certainly base their theology on many things Protestant, either as individuals or as a group. I believe that this claim is based more on a rejection of a strong denominationally authority than actual theology

Increasingly, some of these groups deny that they are even denominations.

 

[CWBetts]

They certainly base their theology on many things Protestant, either as individuals or as a group. I believe that this claim is based more on a rejection of a strong denominationally authority than actual theology

Increasingly, some of these groups deny that they are even denominations.

Yeah, I know. There is also a segment of Baptists that claim that they are Protestant. I used to be one. Very weird.

 

[1beleevr]

They certainly base their theology on many things Protestant, either as individuals or as a group. I believe that this claim is based more on a rejection of a strong denominationally authority than actual theology

Increasingly, some of these groups deny that they are even denominations.

In my 43 years as a follower of Christ, I have been around Mormons, Hindus, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists, atheists, agnostics, Lutherans, and of course catholics. I have been rebuked, cursed at, felt sorry for, reprimanded, and a host of other different reactions to my faith! But, by the grace of God, I have made it through. Grew up in a Southern Baptst church, and it was all I knew for many years. But for the most part, I was very naive about things spiritual, and have had to be helped along by the Holy Spirit! Know one man who used to go to our church; started as a catholic, went to the Lutheran church, next to our church, and is now back at the Lutheran church! Gives new meaning to the term; church gypsy! But the comforting knowledge that I have, is knowing that no regardless of what I was part of down here, it won’t matter when I get to Heaven!

 

[1beleevr]

They certainly base their theology on many things Protestant, either as individuals or as a group. I believe that this claim is based more on a rejection of a strong denominationally authority than actual theology

Increasingly, some of these groups deny that they are even denominations.

That is an interesting theory; whether or not they feel like denominations are too over-the-top with rules and regulations; traditions and rituals, that they kinda want to be free to WORSHIP God freely, without penalty! Some denominations put a very strong pressure to give more in one’s tithing. Remember the widow who gave two(2) mites? In some ways, some nondenominationals view their affiliation like a political affiliation! Independent means the freedom to vote for the candidate, not necessarily whether they have a (D) or an(R) next to their name!

 

[CWBetts]

That is an interesting theory; whether or not they feel like denominations are too over-the-top with rules and regulations; traditions and rituals, that they kinda want to be free to WORSHIP God freely, without penalty! Some denominations put a very strong pressure to give more in one’s tithing. Remember the widow who gave two(2) mites? In some ways, some nondenominationals view their affiliation like a political affiliation! Independent means the freedom to vote for the candidate, not necessarily whether they have a (D) or an(R) next to their name!

There is nothing in the New Testament writings anywhere to suggest that discipleship is a free-for-all where you can pick and choose what you wish. Rather a great deal of authority was given to the Apostles, Peter in particular, to lead the nascent Church.

 

[guanophore]

Hi, guan; as usual the voice of authority! Unfortunately, there are many more catholics that I have encountered, who embrace the opposite view(post#68), among others! John 20:20-23, does not specifically state that parishioners are to go to confession on a weekly or monthly or even yearly basis, which would render this admonition as an interpretation of said scriptures by the early church fathers!

And this is why I say your post is disingenuous, 1beleevr. You know quite well that there is one teaching of the Catholic Church, yet you choose to ignore it, and respond to the opinions that are around you. If you want to find fault with the Church, and protest her teachings,then do so with some integrity, instead of creating strawmen to attack.

The Teachings of the Church are not based in the opinions of catholics you have “encountered” but upon Christ, and the Apostles.

And I have been rebuked on many occasions by radical(or maybe not radical) catholics who practically demand that we noncatholics call the pope holy father! He is just the pope to us, not our Holy Father(God).

This is more disingenous objection, 1beleevr. There is absolutely no basis for “practically demand”. Frankly, I doubt that any Catholic has said anything of the kind to you. However, if they did, it is irrelevant, as it is not a Teaching of the Church. Treating it like it is, especially after all the time you have spent on this forum, and know otherwise really puts you in a bad light.

John 17:11, Jesus addresses His Holy Father, and Matthew 23:9, says,“Call no man on earth your Father, for you have one Father who is in Heaven, which is God!”

We read it differently, dont’ we? However, this is a custom, not a doctrine.

As for confession, you continue to ignore 1 John 1:9, and James 5:16. Not so much ignore them, but interpret them differently!

I am glad to see that you amended the first statement with the second. You are right, we interpret them differently. Catholics understand scripture in the light of the Teachings for the Apostles that we have received infallibly through the Church.

Believe it or not, guan, I have a lot of respect for you, and many other catholics on this forum, but there are those who send conflicting messages; leaving us to wonder what’s really true!

Yes, there are a lot of confusing messages, I agree. The vast majority of persons baptized Catholic are not well catechized. I beg you, though, please object to the Teachings of the Church, if you want to genuinely object, and not the opinions and misunderstandings.

 

[Eutychus123]

That is an interesting theory; whether or not they feel like denominations are too over-the-top with rules and regulations; traditions and rituals, that they kinda want to be free to WORSHIP God freely, without penalty! Some denominations put a very strong pressure to give more in one’s tithing. Remember the widow who gave two(2) mites? In some ways, some nondenominationals view their affiliation like a political affiliation! Independent means the freedom to vote for the candidate, not necessarily whether they have a (D) or an(R) next to their name!

If I may ask, is the church that you attend part of a denomination?

 

[1beleevr]

There is nothing in the New Testament writings anywhere to suggest that discipleship is a free-for-all where you can pick and choose what you wish. Rather a great deal of authority was given to the Apostles, Peter in particular, to lead the nascent Church.

I have heard that disciple comes from the root word, discipline! Being a disciple, and helping others to become disciples(followers of Christ) is a command for us also, in Matthew 28:19-20. I realize that the first audience was the 11, but His words are meant for us too! What do you mean by free-for-all; that people can just build their faith, like going through a buffet line until their satisfied? I have met disgruntled Christians from EVERY religion, and the overwhelming issue is,“What can I accomplish, while I’m here?” “What do others think of me?” “Do I have enough money?” The question should be “Do I have enough faith, and strength to carry my cross?”

 

[1beleevr]

If I may ask, is the church that you attend part of a denomination?

Our church; called the Way Fellowship(cool, huh?) just like the early church We are a member of the Christian and Missionary Alliance, which has about 250 churches worldwide! Worldwide missions(Matthew 28:19-20) in the beginning was the focus of the founding fathers(Happy are the feet of those who bring the Good News!). Taking the Message of the Gospel to the world, is still important, but some churches have embraced the communities in which their church is located, hosting Bible studies, outreaches, feeding the homeless, and supporting Street Teams; a ministry designed to attend to the needs of the hungry, spiritually and physically!

 

[1beleevr]

And this is why I say your post is disingenuous, 1beleevr. You know quite well that there is one teaching of the Catholic Church, yet you choose to ignore it, and respond to the opinions that are around you. If you want to find fault with the Church, and protest her teachings,then do so with some integrity, instead of creating strawmen to attack.

The Teachings of the Church are not based in the opinions of catholics you have “encountered” but upon Christ, and the Apostles.

This is more disingenous objection, 1beleevr. There is absolutely no basis for “practically demand”. Frankly, I doubt that any Catholic has said anything of the kind to you. However, if they did, it is irrelevant, as it is not a Teaching of the Church. Treating it like it is, especially after all the time you have spent on this forum, and know otherwise really puts you in a bad light.

We read it differently, dont’ we? However, this is a custom, not a doctrine.

I am glad to see that you amended the first statement with the second. You are right, we interpret them differently. Catholics understand scripture in the light of the Teachings for the Apostles that we have received infallibly through the Church.

Yes, there are a lot of confusing messages, I agree. The vast majority of persons baptized Catholic are not well catechized. I beg you, though, please object to the Teachings of the Church, if you want to genuinely object, and not the opinions and misunderstandings.

Very strong words, guan, however I know that you have great passion for your faith! My comments are not targeted at you specifically, but I can see that you would be inclined to take any “negative” comment as a slight against the wholw church! You have always been the diplomat, but every now and then, that plank in your eye grows a bit! And you know quite well that there are catholics on this forum(too numerous to name, woulm
't be prudent anyway), who batter noncatholics with these ver issues! Also, without knowing me any betterthan you do, ASSUME that catholics friends and co-workers, have not said disparaging things! Before one comes on a forum such as this, he/she may have been in contact with a great number of cathoilcs, and do not know for sure what is tradition and what is not! Not being mean, just can’t make myself say, holy father to a man! And you should be aware by now, that regardless of our differences, I respect you, and your opinions, and I love and follow Jesus!

 

[Sophiethenerd]

I’m non- denominational. Many non- denominationals, like myself, interpret the Bible themselves, and their interpretations probably just end up being much like the Protestant views. Also, remember that a lot of Catholic practices are based on tradition, so non- denominationals wouldn’t be practicing those, making them seem more like Protestants.

Also, I was raised in a Protestant home, so my opinions might be slightly more biased towards that. And if there isn’t a non- denominational church in their area, they might have to go to a protestant church that more closely matches their views, making them more biased.

I hope that made sense! =)

 

[Sophiethenerd]

I think calling the Reformation can be more accurately called the “deformation.” All Luther, Calvin, ad the other heretics accomplished was to cause division among Christians by deforming the true faith into some man-made monstrosity. If you have nothing to add to the conversation then begone! I would like to see some kind of reasoned defense of the heresies of Luther, Calvin, and their ilk.

Please note that the Catholic traditions were added later, and were not in the early church.
The Catholic church was getting corrupted (history is history.), what did you expect people to do?

As long as we all agree that Jesus Christ was the one and only Son of God, and are saved by His death, the denominations don’t matter.

There’s no need for name- calling: we can all be adults about this.

 

[brb3]

Not being mean, just can’t make myself say, holy father to a man! … and I love and follow Jesus!

Would it hurt you to do so ? Christ taught us to respect and honor our fathers/mothers. We are all united family In Christ. If the Pope came to your town to hold Mass … would you show to listen and meet him personally ?

No one, even Popes, desire/expect you to kiss his ring. But, if you did, or called him Father, Christ would be honored by your actions. Christ designed his Church with leaders, and those of us who aren’t the leaders need to show proper honor to our spiritual leaders [who are IN CHRIST].

Wouldn’t you have done the same for John or Paul or Peter … if they came to speak in your 1st Century Church ?

 

[CWBetts]

Please note that the Catholic traditions were added later, and were not in the early church.
The Catholic church was getting corrupted (history is history.), what did you expect people to do?

As long as we all agree that Jesus Christ was the one and only Son of God, and are saved by His death, the denominations don’t matter.

There’s no need for name- calling: we can all be adults about this.

What traditions were added later? I admit some theology developed, but the Church has not been corrupted. It is protected from corruption by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Eutychus123]

Our church; called the Way Fellowship(cool, huh?) just like the early church We are a member of the Christian and Missionary Alliance, which has about 250 churches worldwide! Worldwide missions(Matthew 28:19-20) in the beginning was the focus of the founding fathers(Happy are the feet of those who bring the Good News!). Taking the Message of the Gospel to the world, is still important, but some churches have embraced the communities in which their church is located, hosting Bible studies, outreaches, feeding the homeless, and supporting Street Teams; a ministry designed to attend to the needs of the hungry, spiritually and physically!

Thank you for the explanation. Why do you call yourself non-denominational?

 

[Eutychus123]

I’m non- denominational. Many non- denominationals, like myself, interpret the Bible themselves, and their interpretations probably just end up being much like the Protestant views. Also, remember that a lot of Catholic practices are based on tradition, so non- denominationals wouldn’t be practicing those, making them seem more like Protestants.

Also, I was raised in a Protestant home, so my opinions might be slightly more biased towards that. And if there isn’t a non- denominational church in their area, they might have to go to a protestant church that more closely matches their views, making them more biased.

I hope that made sense! =)

What church do you attend? Is it affiliated in some way with a larger group?

 

[benedictus2]

Why so angry Sir, have I offended you?

I have just happened on this thread and so far have got to this point of the discussion.

You asked CW a question which was correctly answered with “There was none before the reformation”.

It was a straight statement with no mean mean smileys, no anger evident in anyway, why would you think that he was angry.

And more to the point. How come you did not have a proper rebuttal to his very valid point instead of the snide " Why so angry Sir, have I offended you?"

It was evident that you meant to offend so why feign innocence?

 

[benedictus2]

I see.

No, to be honest, not really.

Did I hurt your feelings? And is that the reason why you haven’t answered my questions? If I were to appologize Carl, beg forgiveness, then could we be like friends?

My real name is Tom. Actually, it’s Thomas. I haven’t been to seminary so I don’t have advanced training like you. But I do have a secular 4 year degree and I study a lot of theology as a hobby. Systematic theology, historical development of theology, Early church theology, history of the first 5 centuries of the church, modern evangelical theology. I have some college level training in Life of Christ and several New Testament books, I’m fairly conversant with the ANFs and Catholic councils from Trent to V2. In my personal library (which contains approx 950 books on the christian faith) contains 10 or 12 multi volume systematic theology books representing most major schools within protestantism and many single volume works on issues within evangelicalism. I consider myself a pre-mil dispensationalist. I read through the Bible cover to cover 2 or 3 times per year.

So, Carl, I know it shouldn’t, but it does bother me when someone misrepresents a basic historical fact. So for this, I forgive you and please know that I had no idea that you were offended by my inquiry.

Your friend (hopefully) Tom

And what has that got to do with anything? Just plain rebut what CW wrote.

 

[dcastlen50]

I haven’t read all the other post so I may be being redundant. I was a Baptist. The reason many of them do not want to be called “protestant” is because they understand that they are the original church. They did not protest against the church; they were/are the church, all 35,000 of these denominations.