A question for some non-catholic,,,The Catholic Church Baptizes infants.

[RockyRoad]

Protestant bibles do not have it in there because Protestants do not believe that baptism saves souls. You would have to look in a Catholic Bible to see what I’m saying.

Could you please tell me where to look. I’ll look at a Catholic Bible on-line. BTW…I was of the understanding that all western churches had the same NT. But I’ve been wrong before.

Just tell me which book…chapter and verse.

Thanks…
God bless

 

[O.S.Luke]

Babies sin?

Of course babies sin. Ever had any?

 

[TobyLue]

Dokimas – boy you sure to a lot a dancing around and avoid answering directly.

; I can’t without perfect understanding from the Holy Spirit - which won’t happen until Heaven

**
**
So in other words, you’re not certain that the Church is correct in baptizing infants. You’re just going with your flawed personal understanding. Is this what Jesus left behind? For us to just form our own opinion? No, He left us a church to guide us and the Holy Spirit would guide His church. You’ve just admitted that you don’t know and are afraid to trust the Church that Jesus said would lead us and the Church that He left behind to TEACH us.

The questions isn’t where Jesus was correct or not but which church was He speaking about; IMO, the CC in not that church but many of its members are part of It.

We are to believe ONLY what is True. That’s why I try to believe what’s in the Bible..

So which church is it Dokimas? In your opinion, and remember, you are using your opinion only instead of trusting the Church that Jesus founded. As far as believing ONLY what is True, how do you know that the Bible is the Bible and why believe in a book that does not tell you to believe ONLY in what’s in the Bible. Here Dokimas you keep jumping around as if you were standing in hot coals.

(

I** don’t criticize, just make observations that may or may not be correc****t**)

And is that what Jesus wanted to nobody really be sure? I pray that you make the corret observations and come to believe in the Truths revealed by Jesus through the Church he left behind.

When the resurrected Jesus spoke to the two disciples on the road to Ammaus, what Book did He use to reveal truths about Himself to the two men? Did Jesus inclue oral traditions? BTW, the NT was penned by 1st century disciples/apostles.

),
So are you saying that we are to believe ONLY the OT because that is what Jesus was referring to. When did he command that the NT be written down?

Silly question. No answer required.

Correction, you cant answer the “silly” question And it is an honest question that bible only believers have never been able to answer. So just go on ahead saying its silly to anything you don’t have an answer to.

 

[Hesychios]

300 pound gorilla in the room = the quotes from the ECF’s that prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the early Church baptized infants.

The Patristic witness is all that is necessary to study.

No second-guessing the early church practice with modern theories.

Baptize first, ask questions later.

 

[Dokimas]

TobyLue in black; Doki in color.

Dokimas – boy you sure to a lot a dancing around and avoid answering directly. **
**
So in other words, you’re not certain that the Church is correct in baptizing infants.** I’d say that all the evidence from the Bible is that infants don’t need to and don’t fall into the catagory of those getting baptized**. You’re just going with your flawed personal understanding. **Correct and many before me (my beliefs/understanding aren’t in a vacuum); and you go with yours and the many before you ** Is this what Jesus left behind? He never said it would be easy. For us to just form our own opinion? Absolutely not. No, He left us a church (agreed but I’m sure we’d disagree what that means) to guide us and the Holy Spirit (He’s perfect with perfect understanding - the church is not) would guide His church. You’ve just admitted that you don’t know and are afraid to trust the Church that Jesus said would lead us and the Church that He left behind to TEACH us (Not exactly true; as I said, I don’t believe in a vacuum. I’ve tried to be like the Bereans. Remember we disagree about the understanding of the church.).

So which church is it Dokimas? (The one with all true believers which include all who call on the Name of the Lord and follow Him.) In your opinion, and remember, you are using your opinion only instead of trusting the Church that Jesus founded. ** Is there a question**? BTW, that’s your opinion. As far as believing ONLY what is True, how do you know that the Bible is the Bible and why believe in a book that does not tell you to believe ONLY in what’s in the Bible. Here Dokimas you keep jumping around as if you were standing in hot coals. Quite a cutcie saying.

(
And is that what Jesus wanted to nobody really be sure? I pray that you make the corret observations and come to believe in the Truths revealed by Jesus through the Church he left behind. You’re making an assumption. No big deal; we do it all the time.

),
So are you saying that we are to believe ONLY the OT because that is what Jesus was referring to. Silly question. Go back to the context of my answer. Bring them forward together and we’ll discuss them. When did he command that the NT be written down?

Correction, you cant answer the “silly” question Maybe not; but you can ask some. And it is an honest question that bible only believers have never been able to answer. **What question is that? You didn’t bring it forward for discussion. ** So just go on ahead saying its silly to anything you don’t have an answer to. Silly statement.

 

[LionHeart777]

Baptize first, ask questions later.

It has a nice ring to it:thumbsup:

 

[guanophore]

Show me in the Bible were it specifically says to Baptise infants? The scripture,please.

It is right next to that verse that says everything we do as Christians must be “specifically” stated in the Bible.

Christians were baptizing infants 350 years before the Bible was formed. Why should they give up this Apostolic practice just because some of the Holy Writings were canonized?

The Apostles taught that baptism is the new circumcision, the means by which we enter into the New Covenant.

 

[guanophore]

What is it to sin? To willfully go against God’s commandments. Are babies/mentally challenged/those unable to control their actions accountable for something they cannot control?

Do you not believe in original sin?

Do you not believe Jesus’ teaching that those who do not believe are condemned already? do you not realize that everyone is born into this world in a state of condemnation?

No, babies are not responsible for their original sin. Neither must they be made responsible for it’s removal. Their salvation is a free gift from God, purchased by his shed blood on the cross.

Oh, there will be baptizing of all nations, when the freewill of a person wants to follow God's word(Implications of wanting to be saved and understanding what God has done for man and what He is to man).

This has always been the norm for adults.

I understand the Bible doesn’t speak in specifics about mentally challenged and babies, but it is implied.

What is “implied”?

**

You have a choice to follow God or not, to be baptized is to understand that you have made a choice to follow God(to abide by his commandments). **

So, do you think that everyone who is unable to make that choice is eternally damned?

LestWeForget:

You ask an infant why he wants to follow Jesus’ example.

We have no way of knowing what an infant may know about God. Jesus said that the Kingdom of heaven is of these" (children). What makes us think that we can know if an infant, child, or disabled person cannot experience Christ?

What if a pregnant mother died along with the unborn child in a car wreck? Will the baby go to hell? Oh, you answer the mother had the intention for her child to be baptized, it's not the mother's choice.

Why not? Why is it we support the parent’s right to choose health care, vaccinations, dental care, clothing, schooling, friends, activities, and every other aspect of a child’s life, but the one most important aspect with the only eternal consequences they cannot? Does that make any sense at all?

It’s the baby’s choice to be baptized. All in respectable sayings, I hope I didn’t offend much.

No offense. Your logic just does not make any sense.

It is a matter of freewill, therefore straight and narrow is the path to righteousness and few will find it, and wide is the gate to destruction. Eh, I forgot where that is in the new testament. But thanks for my thoughts, I don't mean to argue, just letting in some light on the perspective.

Your perspective represents a departure from what the apostles believed and taught.

 

[Loboto-Me]

We’re now going in circles with those who don’t want to accept what the bible says… YES it does show little children being baptised in the bible

38 But Peter said to them: Do penance, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins: and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is to you, and to your children, and to all that are far off, whomsoever the Lord our God shall call.

But then I think RevKev tried to turn this scripture around saying that it’s for a FUTURE promise that Jesus was giving to the children but it’s a promise for the adults right now. Meanwhile this promise is said in the same sentence!

Why not just accept scripture?

 

[Nicea325]

**Show me in the Bible were it specifically says to Baptise infants? The scripture,please. **

St.Paul baptized HOUSEHOLDS. Does a household in ancient Israel constitute only adults? I seriously doubt it.

 

[Bill_Pick]

**Show me in the Bible were it specifically says to Baptise infants? The scripture,please. **

St.Paul baptized HOUSEHOLDS. Does a household in ancient Israel constitute only adults? I seriously doubt it.

Nicea325, Are you saying as a cathloic we are NOT to Bistism for infants or was this from another post

 

[Nicea325]

**When the resurrected Jesus spoke to the two disciples on the road to Ammaus, what Book did He use to reveal truths about Himself to the two men? Did Jesus inclue oral traditions? BTW, the NT was penned by 1st century disciples/apostles. **

And? Jesus founded a church,not a book. Read your bible again and stop fabricating silly beliefs. What is the pillar of truth? Jesus church or the Bible? The Bible says the church,not a set of writings collected as one book.

 

[Nicea325]

**Nicea325, Are you saying as a cathloic we are NOT to Bistism for infants or was this from another post **

Of course as Catholics we should baptize infants. Someone had asked where scripture mentions where babies are baptized. I made a reference to St.Paul were he baptized households.

I always tell those who believe in adult baptisms only,does a parent wait to his or her infant is old enough understand what a bath signifies? How about education? Why enroll them at such a young age? Why not wait until they can fully ‘think’ for themselves? What age is that?

Adult-only baptism is not the norm in the early church.

 

[Dokimas]

**Show me in the Bible were it specifically says to Baptise infants? The scripture,please. **

St.Paul baptized HOUSEHOLDS. Does a household in ancient Israel constitute only adults? I seriously doubt it.

All households have infants all the time?

 

[Loboto-Me]

All households have infants all the time?

Common sense would tell you that out of 5 households that included slaves as well, and most likely some larger households, at least one of them would have very small child in it if not an infant. Contraception wasn’t what it is today

 

[Nicea325]

**All households have infants all the time? **

All households have a man or woman or children all the time?

Your argument is circular.

 

[Dokimas]

Common sense would tell you that out of 5 households that included slaves as well, and most likely some larger households, at least one of them would have very small child in it if not an infant. Contraception wasn’t what it is today

And common sense would say if only 5 families are mentioned out of the many thousands of adults that were baptized there’s a high degree of possibility that those families did not have infants. Now if there were hundreds of ‘households’ mentioned that were baptized, then you’d have an argument.

 

[Dokimas]

**All households have infants all the time? **

All households have a man or woman or children all the time?

Your argument is circular.

Either you or I don’t understand circular reasoning. I wasn’t making an argument. I was asking a question – do all households have infants all the time?​

We had teenagers only in our household for 8 yrs and our daughters were with us into their twenties.

 

[Bill_Pick]

And common sense would say if only 5 families are mentioned out of the many thousands of adults that were baptized there’s a high degree of possibility that those families did not have infants. Now if there were hundreds of ‘households’ mentioned that were baptized, then you’d have an argument.

DoKimas I was just thing I have two daughter and a son, One daughter has 2 and the other daught has 3 and my son has 5 so what does that do to your % and I have a step-daughter that has 3… I live in a plase that has 150 homes and three years ago we had a Chritmas pary for the kids and we had over 600 kids

 

[Dokimas]

DoKimas I was just thing I have two daughter and a son, One daughter has 2 and the other daught has 3 and my son has 5 so what does that do to your % and I have a step-daughter that has 3… I live in a plase that has 150 homes and three years ago we had a Chritmas pary for the kids and we had over 600 kids

Bill, the discussion I was a part of was about baptism in the Bible, specifically the NT. Some of your fellow catholics remind us that 5 households are mentioned in the NT to have been all baptized. I don’t think you’re family is the 6th because you are 2000 yrs removed from the time period I was speaking about. So you don’t change the % at all.