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rev_kevin
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Yep! YOU GOT IT RIGHT!!!
:tiphat:
A question for some non-catholic,,,The Catholic Church Baptizes infants.
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:tiphat:
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Dokimas
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Didache 7:1 But concerning baptism, thus shall ye baptize. Having first recited
all these things, baptize âin the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spiritâ in living (running) water.
Didache 7:2 But if thou hast not living water, then baptize in other water; and if thou art not able in cold, then in warm.
Didache 7:3 But if thou hast neither, then pour water on the head thrice in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
Didache 7:4 But before the baptism let him that baptizeth and him that is baptized fast, and any others also who are able; and thou shalt order him that is baptized to fast a day or two before.
all these things, baptize âin the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spiritâ in living (running) water.
Didache 7:2 But if thou hast not living water, then baptize in other water; and if thou art not able in cold, then in warm.
Didache 7:3 But if thou hast neither, then pour water on the head thrice in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
Didache 7:4 But before the baptism let him that baptizeth and him that is baptized fast, and any others also who are able; and thou shalt order him that is baptized to fast a day or two before.
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lastinline
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Are you happy now!!! Youâve given me a headache!
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elvisman
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**Kev - **
**First of all - your definition of Adelphos is somewhat flawed, in that it only covers ONE part of the meaning. Adelphos has many different meanings in the 1st century Greek - not just uterine brothers:
**1. a brother, whether born of the same two parents or only of the same father or mother
2. having the same national ancestor, belonging to the same people, or countryman
3. any fellow or man
4. a fellow believer, united to another by the bond of affection
5. an associate in employment or office
**
After the Septuagint was written (c. 200 B.C.) Adelphos took on a broader definition. It can be proven by the over 100 refernces to it by Jesus and the NT writers that that they all studied from the Septuagint.
**A****s I already showed you, there are numerous OT references in the Septuagint that confer this title to cousins (1 Chr. 23:21â22) and uncles and nephews (Gen. 14:14, Gen. 29:15).
**
By the way - the Greek word for cousin is Anepsios.
The plain fact is that there is not one shred of Scriptural evidence that Mary had other children - not ONE. Jesus certainly had Ach, Anepsios and/or Adelphos - but Mary had no other children.
Similarly - there is not one shred of Scriptural evidence that Baptism was restricted to only the adult members of a household. The household of Cornelius in Acts was baptized based on HIS faith. NOWHERE does it state that they were baptized because of their own faith.
In conclusion - if you insist that Mary had other children, you must be held to the same standard that you force upon the Catholic Church to PROVE from Scripture that Baptized households did not include infants. And, quite frankly - you havenât . . .
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Bill_Pick
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Where are the Brothers and Sisters of Jesus buried,I,d love to virsit the grave one day,can you help with that ,I think the Church knows where most are
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Dokimas
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My guess is that you are being sarcastic. Iâd love to understand your point, especially in light of my post you are âquotingâ.
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Bill_Pick
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DocâŚLet no one presume to hope for the mercy of GOD, who dares to slight or offend GODâs mother."
St Louis de Montfort
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rev_kevin
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Brother Ach-Hebrew-A prime word for brother used in the widest sense of lit. relationship and metaph. affinity or resemblance [like] another, brother (-ly), kindred, like, other. Compare also the proper names beginning with âAh-â or âAhi-â
Brother Dowd-Hebrew-dode or (short)
BrotherYabam-Hebrew- a prim. root of doubtful mean; used only as a denom. to marry a (deceased) brotherâs widow:âperform the duty of a husbandâs brother, marry.
BrotherRea-Hebrew-a crash (of thunder), noise (of war), shout (of Joy):-x aloud, noise shouted. an associate, (more or less close):âbrother, companion, fellow, friend, husband, lover neighbor. a thught (as association of ideas);âthought.
BrotherAdelphos-Greek-(as a connective particle) and Delohus (the womb); a brother (lit. or fig.) near or remote, brother.
Brotherâs Arch- same as above.
Brotherâs Ybemeth-Hebrew-fem.part. a sister-in-law:âbrotherâs wife, sister in law
Brotherâs Adelphos-same as above,
Brotherhood Achavah-Hebrew-fratenity:-- brotherhood
Brotherhood Adelphotes-Greek-brotherhood (prop. the feeling of brotherliness), fratenity:-brethren, brotherhood.
BrothersâDowd-same as above.
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lastinline
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Hi BillâŚI believe that Mary was every virgin. But Iâve never seen Doki say anything that would be disrespectful toward the Blessed Mother. We believe that Mary had no other childrenâŚbut I donât see it as disrespectful toward Mary to think she did. Most hold her as an example of a Christian life.
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rev_kevin
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Nicea325
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rev_kevin
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Look Iâm not the only one. So get off my back. If you donât like it then stop coming to this thread. NO one is forcing you to come to this thread. END OF CASE.
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Masters_Servant
Guest
Hey Rev Kevin, why are you arguing that Jesus had brothers and sisters when you know he said it Himself and if it were of some kin, then a word like cousin would have been used and was not.
Col 4:10 Aristarchus, my fellow prisoner, sends you his greetings; and {also} Barnabasâs cousin Mark (about whom you received instructions; if he comes to you, welcome him);
anepsios: Definition
- a cousin
Again; a defense of the Biblical record against a belief in another teaching and a topic for a different threadâŚamen
John 11:21
Martha then said to Jesus, "Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died.
**Catholics; was Lazarus of Bethany the sibling of Martha and her âsisterâ? Yes or no?
Was Martha and Mary (not Jesus mother) sisters? **
adelphÄ 1. a full, own sister
2. one connected by the tie of the Christian religion
From adelphos 1. a brother, whether born of the same two parents or only of the same father or mother
2. having the same national ancestor, belonging to the same people, or countryman
3. any fellow or man
4. a fellow believer, united to another by the bond of affection
5. an associate in employment or office
6. brethren in Christ
1. his brothers by blood
2. all men
3. apostles
4. Christians, as those who are exalted to the same heavenly place
from root Alpha = one
If Lazurus is commonly accepted as Martha and Mary sibling, which they are, then why would you then deny it when the Lord said He had brothers in light of the fact that God says Mary, Jesus mother, was pregnant âbefore the came togetherâ. What do you suppose they "came to together for? Huummm I wonder what God could have possibly meant by that. What God has joined together; let no man separate, but now God forces Joseph and Mary to break His command; please. Would God do that after He said "until the CAME together?"
What would any honest person answer? Anyone want to copy this post and start a thread since the last few posts are off topic? I canât; otherwise I would.
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Roman_Catholic_1
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I am confused I thought this thread was about infant baptism? How did whether or not Christ had brothers come up?
Just food for thought; my wife is her motherâs only child yet my wife has 2 sisters. The Bible saying that Christ had brothers (whether it means cousins or brothers aside) doesnât mean Mary had other children.
God bless
Just food for thought; my wife is her motherâs only child yet my wife has 2 sisters. The Bible saying that Christ had brothers (whether it means cousins or brothers aside) doesnât mean Mary had other children.
God bless
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elvisman
Guest
Kevin -
**Instead of listing different words for âBrotherâ - you fail to show the different **
You provide no definition for Ach or Adelphos that pertain to cousin, in-law, uncle, kinsman, countryman, neighbor, etc.
Iâve already proven to you that the Septuagint shows that Adelphos was used for these. Again - as I already indicated, it can be proven with dozens of comparative passages that Jesus and the Apostles studied from the Septuagint, that employed Koine Greek which emerged at about 300 B.C. The Septuagint was completed around 200 B.C.
Lastly, Jesus had Ach and Adelphos (in all their definitions, but âuterine brotherâ). You HAVE NOT not and CANNOT show me where the NT shows that Mary had other children. All youâve show are vague references to the Adelphos of Jesus.
The challenge to ALL Protestants who believe that Mary gave birth to other children stands.
The burden of proof to show that is on YOU.
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elvisman
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Hey RC -
I was illustrating that **if RevKevin and others insist that Mary had other children, then they MUST be held to the same standard that they force upon the Catholic Church to PROVE from Scripture that Baptized households did not include infants. **
The reason they havenât is because they CANâT.
PS - They are also avoiding or denying the fact that the Koine Greek for Adephos has far broader definition that simply, "uterine brother", which included cousin, kin, countryman, uncle, neighbor, etc.
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Matthew_P_Muehl
Guest
I notice how the subject is starting to change since rev and other have lost the debate on infant baptism.
Matthew
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Masters_Servant
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However, their is a totally different word used for cousin in the NT; Kevin and I do not doubt what the Lord Himself said concerning His brothers (biological) and what God planned for marriage between Joseph and Mary; he would not have them violate His own commands and you being Catholic and against most forms of birth control, smacks in the face of God on this particular subject.
Perhaps since you are a veteran Catholic here; you could start an appropriate thread for this discussion since all of the talk about Jesus brothers has nothing to do with infant Baptism, the actual topic. that is your call but I canât answer any more questions; i have posted the Biblical facts in light of Gods commands dealing with marriage, what it meant âbefore they came togetherâ and the words of the Lord Himself and the fact that cousin in the NT Greek is in Scripture; in light of the overwhelming Biblical evidence the only way to deny the obvious truth is to have a prejudice for a different doctrine IMO.
Again, a different thread and let us know if you decide to start one.
Thanks
MS
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elvisman
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Yes - this is transparently evident . . .I notice how the subject is starting to change since rev and other have lost the debate on infant baptism.
Matthew
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