A question for some Protestants who feel it is necessary to proselytize Catholics

[benidict]

Gee, didn’t see that one coming.

If you say so. Thanks, but I think I’ll stick with the correct understanding of that verse.

No problem. Just as I believe that there may be some individuals in the Mormon religion who may be Christians in spite of Mormon doctrine, so I believe that there may be some in the Cathoilc Church who are Christians in spite of Catholic doctrine.

WOW! we agree again? i also believe that there are individuals in the Mormon religion, who are Christians in spite of Mormon doctrine. amazing! you and i may not be as far apart as one might think. i have gotten in trouble for this stand in the past… peace to you and yours.

 

[Hisalone]

Really, I probably owe my soul to the Danny Clovers and the Hisalones of the protestant faith organizations. After 35 years as a baptized protestant, they finally drove me from the protestant faith and started my search for the truth. If it had not been for their ilk, I don’t know what would have happened to my soul. Thank you Danny and His. I owe you a lot. Now a Catholic for nearly 2 months and counting.

I will pray for you.

 

[AmateurPianist]

The irony here being is that I have not yet read a Protestant on this board who claimed “Outside of there is no salvation”.

I personally have been “proselatized” (spelling?) quite a bit here.

Upon reflection though I am really not offended by it. If you really feel that I am going to hell by being a Protestant, it is is your duty and responsibility to try to save me from the flames and get me to convert.

You won’t get very far of course, because I know that eternal life is through Jesus Christ, not through your or my organization.

Pot / kettle…speck / log.

 

[benidict]

The irony here being is that I have not yet read a Protestant on this board who claimed “Outside of there is no salvation”.

I personally have been “proselatized” (spelling?) quite a bit here,

Pot / kettle…speck / log.

hi ameteur. ive missed you. that is a tough word to spell. peace

 

[guanophore]

Christianity is not about a fullness of doctrine. It is about living and walking with God as He lives inside of you. Although most Catholics would not disagree with me this essential point of Christianity is not their focus. That is why it is neccesary that Catholics be evangelized.

I disagree. Christianity IS about the fullness of doctrine. Jesus came into this world to testify to the Truth. When we are in the relationship with Him He desires, then we will be subject to all the Truth He has revealed. You are setting up a false dichotomy. there is no distinction between having a relationship with Him, and embracing the fullness of Truth He brought.

I do agree with you, though that the majority of Catholics need to be evangelized. I used to be one of them.

So you’re telling me that because we follow the fullness of Christ’s teachings (doctrine; I fear you have confused this with something like discipline), that somehow we Catholics are **not living and walking with God, and that He is NOT in us? **

No. He is telling you that he believes the catholic church has fallen away from the fullness of Christ’s teachings by mixing them with Paganism.

THat’s news to me. In fact since I receive the Eucharist, God is actually within me whereas the Protestant who thinks of the Eucharist as something ‘symbolic’ does not have God 'within him" as I do.

This sounds dangerously like “my relationship with Jesus is better than yours”. I don’t think such a response further’s discussion.

It would be absolutely appallingly bad manners and arrogance of the highest degree for someone who had already misjudged Catholics completely (as you just have, hisalone) to come on and try to ‘evangelize them away’ to a false doctrine. I trust that you DO remember the rules of these fora? You must respect **our Catholic faith. You are NOT to try to 'evangelize the . **

He was answering the question in the OP honestly. Why are you accusing him?

We already are Christians who follow the fullness of truth–which means, of course that we follow the fullness of Christ. Surely you won’t separate Him from truth?

HisAlone is right, most Catholics do need to be evangelized. Those who are passionate about their faith, such as you are, are far too infrequent.

I have answered the OP? If Catholics dont want to know what we believe dont ask. But as par for the course on this forum when a nonCatholic answers honestly they are vilified. I see I have raised your ire. It is the same ire that the OT prophets raised when the prophets spoke against false belief and worship that the children of Isreal were engaged in.

You did answer the OP. In doing so, you malign and insult our precious faith. In this response, you liken yourself to the voice of the OT prophets,and Catholics to the disobedient. It is not your answer, but the disdain for our faith that is offensive.

 

[guanophore]

Non Catholics here are not getting the gist of what this thread is about…

and they don’t understand by what we mean is the fullness of faith…we have Christ’s authority through the apostolics and their teachings, we have the sacraments, communion of saints, the practices of the liturgical year, various prayer and spiritual forms, feast days, indulgences (work???), shrines, monasteries, small faith traditions, living in a universal church and experiencing the unity of Christ in the Word and Eucharist.

On the contrary, I think this 'gist" is exactly what HisAlone is reacting to in saying we have mixed Paganism with the faith. I would add to that devotion to Mary and the Saints, but this is a good summary of why he and other Protestants often think we have strayed from the truth of biblical Christianity.

 

[KathleenGee]

You come to a Catholic forum because either you are a Catholic or you want to learn about Catholicism, or you are interested in reading debates between Catholics and non, you have the conviction that Catholics are false but you are interested in what they say, or you have the conviction that Catholics are false and you are here to prove it.

And then there are those who come to CAF to debate and dispute, hoping to draw those who come here simply to read and study and not reveal themselves, either to bring the ‘lurkers’ to the conclusion that Catholicism is false and turn them away from Catholicism…like going fishing…‘may be this time in this debate I have repeated upteen times before, that this will be the one I can get to turn against Catholicism on their own forum!’ I get the impression some folks try to use CAF to get people to turn away and go in another direction.

Usually people who don’t like Catholics have been taught that, and it is hard to convince them otherwise. We pray for our separated brethren daily at Mass.

I try to remember everyone here at CAF every day in prayer. I also think it very wrong for people to deliberately teach falsehoods about others, no matter their convictions.

 

[PRmerger]

The irony here being is that I have not yet read a Protestant on this board who claimed “Outside of there is no salvation”…

Really? You’ve never heard a Protestant say that “outside of Christianity there is no salvation”?

 

[KathleenGee]

Amateur Pianist…

Show me a comment here, and I sincerely mean that as my eyes are not doing well with computer screen, of Catholics saying people will go to hell for not being Catholic.

I can see why non-Catholics are afraid of my faith’s religion. And it can block people their entire life from ever understanding the tenants of my faith. The Lord takes all those who seek His will and do their best…

 

[guanophore]

No member has vilified you. Several have said that you are breaking forum rules, that you are being rude, etc. But not one has made you out to be the enemy, the villain. Word choice is even more important on internet forums than it is in person. Please choose carefully.

He did not break the forum rules by answering the question! He explained why he thought Catholics needed to be evangelized.

I do experience his attitudes about the faith as disdainful, and I find his expressions about Catholicism as rude.

One has to wonder, why is he here? If he knows he is not allowed to evangelize, what does that leave? A morbid curiouslity about the faith of his childhood?

We do not hate you. We dont even hate your beliefs. What we DISLIKE is your attitude toward Catholics and Catholicism as a whole. Please stop attempting to draw pity upon yourself by saying that we “hate” you and we “villify” you, since neither is true. I firmly hold that it is your right to try to convince anyone of your opinion. But you must do it in the appropriate manner and in the appropriate location. Coming to a Catholic forum and posting against the rules is neither the appropriate time or place. PM’s allow your proselytizing. Boards do not.

Amen!
FidesSpesCarita;6690255:

Ironic that you claim we are being thin skinned considering the statements I have quoted from you above.

Yes, it is as if we are to be receptive of insulting comments, yet he says it is not charitable to confirm people in error?

There is nothing unholy in the Catholic Church. There are only things you interpret as unholy. That is a large difference. If I drive down the road and see what I think is a Dodge Cummins, and it is a Ford Powerstroke (Sorry, I love diesel pickups), my impression of the actual truck does not effect the truth of what the truck IS. I am sorry, but your opinion of what is holy or unholy makes literally no difference to me. You can tell me that my very name is a sin for all I care. The one thing I will not tolerate in conversation is insulting my mother. Either my earthly mother, or the Mother gifted to me by Christ Himself.

So I suppose, my whole rant here is just to tell you that I called the WAAAAAAmbulance and canceled your pity party. Sorry 'bout that.

Somehow I don’t think you are really sorry.

I am not either.

Thanks for your insightful post.

 

[KathleenGee]

Benedict,

T hank you for your kind support! Prayers for you!

 

[guanophore]

This has bothered me since I first saw it. I consider it an outrageous misuse of the term.
Catholics are every bit Christian as you, sir. I consider some of the beliefs you have espoused here in the past to be hugely in error, but I would not consider you apostate.

Jon

He is giving an honest answer to the OP! How can we be insulted when the question is asked and answered? If the OP and the rest of us reading this thread did not really want to know why are we asking/reading it?

Of course those Protestants who feel a need to evangelize Catholics HAVE to see something wrong with their faith, or they would not feel the need!

HisAlone believes that Paganism infiltrated the faith, producing Apostasy that has been preserved in Roman Catholicism up to the present day. This is not an uncommon error, especially among American Evangelicals. As Bishop Sheen had said, most people hate what they think the Church is.

 

[guanophore]

Sorry, this is a bit off topic… but whats the WAAAAAAmbulance? I’m so intrigued!

God bless!

It is what they send to help the people who have fallen into the Pity Pot, and can’t get out.

 

[guanophore]

Benidict, yes I was a cradle Catholic. I dont miss the mass nor the prayers. I once had a discussion with my father where I asked him for a dollar. He was about to give me the dollar when he pulled back sensing that I was about to make a point. My point was after he had given me the dollar I would have given him ten. I told him if he would let go of what he had that he thought was valuable he could recieve something of much greater value.
Benidict I have the presence of God with me wherever I go. I walk with God as Enoch and Noah walked with God. Im not some ultra pius “saint” but an ordinary person. God desires this of all His children. To walk in the Spirit and not of the flesh is what we are commanded to do. The bible is so alive, it is what I live eacch and every day.
Isnt this something which every believer should have?

Indeed, this is God’s desire for all of us. For some reason you think that a person who is a faithful Catholic cannot have this. Perhaps it is because you did not have it when you were Catholic?

I did not either when I was that age. I left the Church because I was yearning for that personal relationship, and for the hunger of Scripture, which I was never taught to read or to pray.

 

[KathleenGee]

Well, how much time do some congregations spend reflecting on how bad the Catholic Church is when they could spend quality time learning about the Lord and growing in grace to please Him more…

Or religions whose construct is based on anti-Catholicism…what would they do without us?

Ok…pretend Catholics never existed…we do not exist…now look at your faith without Catholics…you have Jesus…but do you still feel a vacuum??? Turn to Him more!!! You will be much happier and we won’t bother you so much that you have to come on to CAF and tell us how we affected your day. Being funny here…

 

[guanophore]

If you have that relationship with Jesus as you claim, you could never kneel before a statue and light a candle and talk to St Jude or whoever. Nor could you defend anyone who did.

You have a misunderstanding, Hisalone. We don’t “kneel before” statues as if we were worshipping them, any more than those who answer an altar call, go down to the front of a church, and kneel on the floor are “kneeling before” the preacher making the altar call. It is a position of prayer, no matter where it takes place.

Do you think the people in this photo are “bowing down” before the chair, or the monitor, the preacher or the stage?

Is the man in the center worshipping the kleenex box?

You are making a judgement about the attitude of the heart based upon what you can see. Jesus specifically commanded against this.

A person can be a good Christian and be a Catholic. A Christian is one who is born again and professes Jesus as Lord and Savior.

Apparently not, because good Catholics will kneel and pray in many places, light candles, and talk to saints.

 

[KathleenGee]

That photo is showing people being healed by the Holy Spirit in what I assume is a Catholic Church…

Hisalone…do not judge by appearances…we are not dumb and believe in plaster.

 

[guanophore]

Time and time again in the OT the Isrealites turned from worship of the true God and incorporated elements of the surrounding cultures into their religious practice and daily life. They fell into this sin because it is so easy to do unless you stay vigilant. Catholics will say that Jesus has promised the Catholic Church that the gates of hell will never prevail against it.
That is what you are taught. That is not what Jesus said.

What did you think He meant when He said that?

Falling into error, or departing from the Truth by mixing in error is the road to hell. Once the faithful embrace or incorporate error, they have passed through the gates of hell. This is clear from the letters to the churches in Revelation.

 

[KathleenGee]

Hisalone,

The attacks against the Catholic Church this past Holy Week were so hard…I was in a home with a client and a family member made a comment about the Catholic Church while I was there…it was hard to see the TV on full blast and see the news…

But the gates of hell will not prevail…this past Easter Sunday saw the greatest numbers in attendance and the greatest numbers in years in regards to conversions…the Archdiocese of Baltimore, Maryland saw about 1,000 new converts…and the seminarians were fed by the persecutions to go out and preach and do their very best after the scandals…

Persecutions and malignment feed pure souls.

 

[guanophore]

Can we be honest with ourselves? Many catholics think protestants lack. These catholics try to ‘prostulize’ protestants that come to CAF.

This is absolutely true. We are aware that our separated brethren lost the treasures of Sacred Tradition about 500 years ago when their spiritual ancestors abandoned the succession.

CAF is an evangelistic ministry, and there is a strong bias here toward bringing people into, or back to the Catholic Church, while there is a rule against those who want to do the opposite.

There are quite a number of ex-evangelical catholics at CAF that say they tried to ‘evangelize’ catholics then they became catholic.

Kinda reminds me of what happened to Saul of Tarsus.

**
So, what’s the difference especially here on the part of the forum called ‘Non-catholic religions’?**

I don’t see any, except that this forum is dedicated to discussing differences. Hisalone just answered the OP’s question, which was kinda gutsy, given the fact that he got jumped all over for doing it, and that few other non-catholics have been brave enough to make the same attempt.​

-IMO, there are catholics and protestants that believe they are Christians but have NO clue who Jesus really is. Should they be or should the not be ‘evangelized’ not a church but to Jesus? Then there are non-Christians; should they or should they not be ‘evangelized’ to Jesus?

Yes, everyone can use some evangelism! However, for us, Jesus is One with His Body, the Church, so when we evangelize, there is no distinction between connecting to the Head, and being part of His One Body, the Church.