A Search for National Anthem Consistency

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Mister_Friscus said:
  1. America is racist, and was founded on evil principles.
  2. The national anthem and flag aren’t good enough, as it is also racist, so we must resist it, kneel before it, and offer up better options.
Do you agree with these?
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I don’t agree that those sentiments (if expressed by anyone) led to the playing of the Negro National Anthem. You seem to have a real problem with diversity and some ethnic cultural totems.
 
Odilon said:
They are at the in-your-face level at this point. Isn’t the fact that three quarters of all NFL players are of the black race enough “diversity”?
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I guess its the same reason we cannot object to the tradition of playing bagpipes at police and fire fighter memorials. You see the numbers and resist playing a song that might mean something to the majority of the players?

No, the numbers alone are not enough diversity.
 
Odilon said:
Black people are in all professions and there are laws that seek to prevent discrimination in all facets of society, so what is the end game now? Oh that’s right, all this injustice stuff needs to be ginned up for the big pay day, yep, I’m talking about the “R” word - REPARATIONS!
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Two (or three) things:
  1. We have laws but racism still exists and we have problems about police interaction with people of color.
  2. The effects of racial discrimination did not stop on a dime. Think of the Georgia police officers who were consigned to a lower retirement system. They now get a lower pension each month. The effects of discrimination continue for them.
  3. It has been stated that every majority person in the US benefited from unequal treatment of minorities in the US. Each one. That makes reparations far more appropriate. However, the only reparation I want personally is for people to stop fooling themselves.
Odilon said:
I am all for a little diversity as I like to eat kielbasa once in a while, but I don’t want the Polish National Anthem played before football games
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You missed the pierogi festival in Whiting, IN.
 
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I think it’s ridiculous. But, you know, having an opinion nowadays apparently makes you a racist if you disagree with popular American culture (that YouTube keeps trying to force on me). Where are people speaking out against this? Chokehold arrest of First Nation chief shown in dashcam video
Back to the original point, why do people believe that pointing out that we are externally different, think that is going to stop racism? Mark my words, this is hurting the very people it claims to be helping
 
As an observer of all this from north of the border, and even having an American wife, I am often puzzled by the whole anthem-kneeling-standing-sitting issue. I’ve been to uncountable events earlier in my life where the Canadian national anthem is played, including every single morning while in elementary school (where we also said The Lord’s Prayer every day). I began to have questions about anthem protocol while quite young. For instance, what does it have to do with sporting events? I like our anthem but haven’t sung it in years.

At college football games, the last venue I would have attended with the anthem played (probably 20 years ago), I noticed some people remained seated and many didn’t sing at all. Some young folks continued to converse with friends during the singing and often got a sharp look from someone older. We don’t do the hand over the heart thing here. But no one was made an example of no matter how disrespectful this may have seemed. Now it may be that we Canadians are once again, in this matter, living up to our famous polite, forgiving and tolerant nature. Most of us, in my 63 years of life experience, just ignore what, in that instance, would possibly have become newsworthy on an NFL field. So I continue to be somewhat amazed at the fuss which can be made over which particular posture a person chooses to adopt while mouthing the words to an old poem put to music. It doesn’t seem to me that this would be a very relaxing approach to life. Just my thoughts.
 
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CelticWarlord said:
As an observer of all this from north of the border, and even having an American wife, I am often puzzled by the whole anthem-kneeling-standing-sitting issue. I’ve been to uncountable events earlier in my life where the Canadian national anthem is played, including every single morning while in elementary school (where we also said The Lord’s Prayer every day). I began to have questions about anthem protocol while quite young. For instance, what does it have to do with sporting events? I like our anthem but haven’t sung it in years.

At college football games, the last venue I would have attended with the anthem played (probably 20 years ago), I noticed some people remained seated and many didn’t sing at all. Some young folks continued to converse with friends during the singing and often got a sharp look from someone older. We don’t do the hand over the heart thing here. But no one was made an example of no matter how disrespectful this may have seemed. Now it may be that we Canadians are once again, in this matter, living up to our famous polite, forgiving and tolerant nature. Most of us, in my 63 years of life experience, just ignore what, in that instance, would possibly have become newsworthy on an NFL field. So I continue to be somewhat amazed at the fuss which can be made over which particular posture a person chooses to adopt while mouthing the words to an old poem put to music. It doesn’t seem to me that this would be a very relaxing approach to life. Just my thoughts.
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I grew up in England and now live in Switzerland and in both countries it is quite normal that when the respective national anthem is played at a sporting event that maybe only one or two players are actually singing and the others are just standing there uncomfortably. I have also lived in Hungary and Germany and whereas the Germans aren’t very much into their anthem, the Hungarians are and besides the official anthem have one or two other anthem-like songs that get sung here or there, and everybody joins in.

And then you have countries like New Zealand who not only sing the anthem but then dance the haka afterwards and this is extremely popular among spectators. Nobody would just talk casually during a haka.

And maybe fashions come and fashions go and national symbols, such as the flag or anthem, mean different things to different people at different moments in time.
 
CelticWarlord said:
For instance, what does it have to do with sporting events? I like our anthem but haven’t sung it in years.
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It became a tradition, a sign of respect for this nation and the flag that represents it. The problem began when after Kaperdink’s first kneeling action the NFL did not put it’s foot down and say that no political statements will be allowed at NFL events. Why the NFL wanted to alienate so many of it’s fans is beyond my comprehension. I hope they lose tons of money for their stance on allowing politics to enter their events.
 
Odilon said:
Playing the bagpipes at police and fire memorials is not a political statement, but playing that stupid “Black National Anthem” now is. Plus it’s pandering at the highest level.
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The Negro National Anthem is certainly not stupid nor is it pandering. You should become more familiar with it. It is not a political statement, by the way.

“What, the Star Spangled Banner is not good enough for them?”

They will play both. Do you have a problem with that?

I affirmatively ignore your other ignorant and insulting comments.
 
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Nepperhan said:
They will play both. Do you have a problem with that?
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Yes, we only have one national anthem. At one time white and black Americans could forget about what happened during the week and just come together on a weekend to enjoy a well played football game. But alas, this too has gone away. The political world has entered into a great game and ruined it. So sad.
 
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Odilon said:
Yes, we only have one national anthem. At one time white and black Americans could forget about what happened during the week and just come together on a weekend to enjoy a well played football game. But alas, this too has gone away. The political world has entered into a great game and ruined it. So sad.
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Exactly.

I hate to bring up Godwin arguments but from my study of history, this is exactly how both Fascism and Communism worked. They basically infiltrated and took over every club and society, ranging from football teams to boy scouts to chess clubs to amateur theatrical groups to kindergartens and got their people in there by stealth and slowly turned them into political machines, turning people’s hearts and minds to make them willing servants of the system. The organizations who resisted the takeover were banned.

Sports and politics are two separate things and should not be mixed.
 
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I think you’re missing the boat here. Obviously there’s something wrong with the current national anthem to this movement, otherwise they wouldn’t kneel before it. And then, they bring in a new song to rival it… It certainly wasn’t just brought up out of thin air.

Meanwhile, odd that you think I have a problem. It seems like a bit of desperation for you to say that, along with absolutely no support for your backhanded insult.

Feel free to explain how a diverse group of X is better for our country than a non-diverse group of X. Why are different skin colors automatically better or “good”? They are all people, what difference does their skin color make? I think the two groups would be equal… I’m not sure why you value them differently.
 
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Mister_Friscus said:
I think you’re missing the boat here. Obviously there’s something wrong with the current national anthem to this movement, otherwise they wouldn’t kneel before it
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You are jumping to conclusions. Maybe folks are making a gesture which can be observed. No one is trampling the flag or the national anthem.

Obviously if there is a Hispanic Heritage month (September) they must dislike Anglo heritage the rest of the year?
 
Mister_Friscus said:
Feel free to explain how a diverse group of X is better for our country than a non-diverse group of X
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If there is not a diverse group, folks left out get real resentful.
Mister_Friscus said:
Why are different skin colors automatically better or “good”?
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That’s what minorities have been fighting against for 150 years. I’ll give you a hint from 40 years ago: Black is beautiful does NOT mean 'white is ugly.
 
Jen95 said:
What if white people started heartily singing the “black national anthem”? Would that somehow be cultural appropriation?
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My kids’ grammar school sang “Nkosi Sikele’ iAfrika” or “God Bless Africa”, the national anthem of South Africa. This was the school of Obama’s kids and Scalia’s kids. No one accused them of cultural appropriation.

Plus, as seen here, so few whites even know of ‘Lift Every Voice and Sing’ it is hard to assemble a choir to sing it, much less appropriate it!
 
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Nepperhan said:
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Jen95:
What if white people started heartily singing the “black national anthem”? Would that somehow be cultural appropriation?
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My kids’ grammar school sang “God Bless Africa”, the national anthem of South Africa. This was the school of Obama’s kids and Scalia’s kids. No one accused them of cultural appropriation.

Plus, as seen here, so few whites even know of ‘Lift Every Voice and Sing’ it is hard to assemble a choir to sing it, much less appropriate it!
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Oh really? They routinely sang “God bless Africa” at school sporting events?

If it’s okay for there to be a black national anthem, should there be a white national anthem? Should we label it as such and talk about whites’ contributions to our nation?
 
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Jen95 said:
Oh really? They routinely sang “God bless Africa” at school sporting events?
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No, just on occasion. Like the plans for the Negro National Anthem in America in the fall. i can think of maybe two South Africans in the entire school.
 
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Nepperhan said:
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Jen95:
Oh really? They routinely sang “God bless Africa” at school sporting events?
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No, just on occasion. Like the plans for the Negro National Anthem in America in the fall.
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They occasionally sang it at the beginning of school sporting events, along with the national anthem?
Or they occasionally sang it as part of a concert?
Did they sing other national anthems as well?
Is it really called the negro national anthem?
 
Jen95 said:
If it’s okay for there to be a black national anthem, should there be a white national anthem?
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Oh, the burdens of being in the majority! I think the answer is evident. Remember what your parents said when asked “When is Children’s Day”?
 
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