A witness to Hell

[peary1]

All one has to do is read what the Fatima children saw when Our Lady showed them a vision of Hell.

 

[Mr_Skeptic]

Those poor children. Something like that probably traumatized them and caused developmental challenges affecting them for the rest of their lives.

Can someone say ‘child abuse’?

 

[mark_a]

Those poor children. Something like that probably traumatized them and caused developmental challenges affecting them for the rest of their lives.

Can someone say ‘child abuse’?

Although they didn’t ask for the cross of those visions, calling it child abuse is at best inaccurate.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

WOW! australia! i would love to go there. i thought the Great white had a monopoly off your coast. yep we have bull sharks too. its interesting. originally from michigan. but when you move somewhere like here or austraila or in africa where the Great Whites actually breach. or california, you develope a desire to learn about these creatures. i whole heartedly respect them. they are incredible. and you learn which shark is in what territory. its fascinating. they really are interesting creatures. know its off topic, but just an aside. God bless you and yours and God bless austrailia. and the wonders from down under, if you know who i mean Peace.

Whereas generally you get more sharks where the water is warmer ie. tropical, the big Great Whites over here are usually found across the southern colder part of Australia. I don’t know why, never having bothered to find out. Otherwise sharks become more prevalent as you move towards warmer climates.

 

[Sagefrakrobatik]

All one has to do is read what the Fatima children saw when Our Lady showed them a vision of Hell.

I will believe it when I see it.

Besides to say that Hell is eternal punishment is to negatve Jeremiah 3:11 Where god states

[BIBLEDRB]I shall not stay resentful to time indefinite. [/BIBLEDRB]

If God’s anger is not perpetual then there is hope even in the hearafter.

 

[Sagefrakrobatik]

All one has to do is read what the Fatima children saw when Our Lady showed them a vision of Hell.

I will believe it when I see it.

Besides to say that Hell is eternal punishment is to negate what is says in the old testement

*Vade, et clama sermones istos contra aquilonem, et dices: [Revertere, aversatrix Israël, ait Dominus,
et non avertam faciem meam a vobis,
quia sanctus ego sum, dicit Dominus,
et non irascar in perpetuum *

[BIBLEDRB]Jerimiah 3:5[/BIBLEDRB]

[BIBLEDRB]Jerimiah 3:12[/BIBLEDRB]

If God’s anger is not perpetual then there is hope even in the hearafter.*

 

[rainbowlitez]

Wait…are you implying that your father was (is) in Hell? …I mean, it couldn’t have been something else somewhere else?

That was my though - couldn’t it be that perhaps your father’s visit was before he has completely left his body and was in the dying process and perhaps he screamed due to whatever was happening to his body?

 

[Anna_Scott]

Id like to know what you think of this powerful message from a protestant minister who had an out of the body experience and witnessed hell home.flash.net/~evt/hell.htm

I checked out the site. All I can say is that frightened people, make easy targets and easy converts. Fear can be used to indoctrinate congregants and open wallets–and I stress the “open wallets” part.

I believe that God is a just God; and trust Him to take care of the afterlife.

I think the threat of Hell can lead Christians into a narcissistic type of Christianity–one more concerned with avoiding Hell than anything else.

We are to love and serve our Lord, because He is God and worthy of all honor, praise, and glory.

Luke 4: 42 And when it was day, he departed and went into a desolate place. And the people sought him and came to him, and would have kept him from leaving them, 43but he said to them, “I must preach the good news of the kingdom of God to the other towns as well; for I was sent for this purpose.” 44And he was preaching in the synagogues of Judea.

Jesus preached the good news of the kingdom of God.

We are called to spread the good news of the Gospel.

We were not instructed to scare people into accepting the good news.

If all those, who do not obtain salvation, are destined to an eternity of unimaginable torments as bodies literally burn, and every sort of physical and mental agony is inflicted; that would mean the message of the Gospel is the worst news the world has ever heard. If that is the case, I wish I had never been born. Even if I make it, knowing the torments of others would create a hell for me. How could it not? If we are to love our neighbors as ourselves, wouldn’t we be tormented by the knowledge of their torment?

Anna

 

[KathleenGee]

When I read Mr. Crowley’s vision of his father, it does sound like he is communicating to his son moments before his death…it seems awful…if he had only turned to God in hope in his final …seconds…we don’t know…what happened, but pray for him…

I read St. John Vianney’s account to a family distraught because a relative had committed suicide. St. John said the fellow asked for forgiveness, right before he hit the water, and was saved…

One of the great sins against the cardinal virtues is the loss of hope…not believing God is always there to forgive.

The spiritual doctors of the church expound on the idea that love is the pathway to heaven…

I went to Fatima in 1973, and saw an elderly man who had seen the Miracle of the Sun…the little children did see visions of hell…there are children who deliberately commit grave sins…grave sin that leads us there is when we totally know that what we are doing is wrong, and secondly we are opposing Our Lord…so we defy the commandments and we defy Him…and there are consequences.

We live in a world that has no sense of consequence…there is so much immorality and injustice, greed and corruption…the devout are persecuted…the earth and animals are being destroyed…‘Lord, save us from those who are destroying the earth!’…

The saints will say we must see the consequence of sin: hell, and the final separation of man from God…the Lord speaks in revelations that Christ will bring to us a new heavens and a new earth…but there is no mention of a new hell…in His mercy, I wish He would then instantly stop the existence of hell…and no more suffering for them either…when the New Jerusalem arrives.

In the meantime, again, it is the little things every day that bring us into heaven…loving those around us…speaking hope and kindness…always searching for the Lord in those who are unpleasant around us…with Christ…for His kingdom to come…great power in living the Christian life this way in defeating evil and demons and sin…and the consequence of hell.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

That was my though - couldn’t it be that perhaps your father’s visit was before he has completely left his body and was in the dying process and perhaps he screamed due to whatever was happening to his body?

Sorry to disappoint everybody, but I think he’s in Hell.

What did Christ say about it?

Matthew 5:22 “But I say to you that if you are angry with a brother or sister, you will be liable to judgment; and if you insult a brother or sister, you will be liable to the council; and if you say, “You fool,” you will be liabel to the hell of fire.”

Matthew 5:30 “And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away; it is better for you to lose one of your members than for your whole body to go into hell”.

Matthew 7:13-14 (the main verse really) “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate that leads to destruction is wide and the road is easy that leads to destruction and there are ***many ***who take it. For the gate is narrow and the road is hard that leads to life, and there are ***few ***who find it.”

That verse alone should give pause to anyone who thinks the great majority go to heaven. Christ himself stated “Many” would travel the easy road, and “Few” would travel the hard road.

There are others, mainly directed to listeners who refused Him when he had performed miracles in their midst, and the Pharisees.

On what grounds should a man be granted salvation who abused his own family, constantly calling them fools? Who rejected Christ? Who refused to repent? Who turned away from his Catholic upbringing and at one stage went to a witch to have a curse put on me? Getting a bit private, but I get a bit cynical about this salvation at all costs.

I think he’s in hell. And I don’t see any difference simply because he was my father. I would think there are plenty of other fathers in hell also.

 

[KathleenGee]

I fear to judge him…but his actions were testified by you…

God bless you, and preserve you, and I pray you let go of that memory(ies)…because they are as a curse…

 

[mark_a]

If God’s anger is not perpetual then there is hope even in the hearafter.

A case for purgatory?

 

[rainbowlitez]

A case for purgatory?

I personally think there’s a big case for purgatory…and that’s why I can’t imagine many people would end up in hell because I imagine that once we leave our physical bodies at death, we have a wider perspective on things - and that if you WANT to be with God, there’s still a way to get to him even if you fluffed up life really badly.

And the reason that I think that your chances don’t suddenly dry up at death is when Jesus says "Therefore I say to you: Every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but the blasphemy of the Spirit shall not be forgiven. And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come.”

This clearly means that you can obtain forgiveness in the next world. If you aren’t open to be forgiveness even when you know the consequences then that’s a person’s choice of course - but I can’t imagine someone choosing to not be forgiven when they know the facts. I tend to believe there’s a lot in people’s accounts of NDE’s - with the ‘life review’ so often reported for example - it makes sense to me that we would go through something like that with our eyes open in a way they probably weren’t in life - and if we realised our sins in this way and then defiantly didn’t repent, I guess we wouldn’t be fit for heaven because we’d be saying we didn’t want to be with God.

There are a few accounts I’ve read of people who have been to places they think must be purgatory or hell but by far most of the NDEs I’ve read have been ‘positive’ ones. One account of purgatory I read was chilling - the person ended up in a place that seemed dark and dingy and oppressive and it was almost like in black and white - and there were lots of people who were unhappy there and he could hear their thoughts - and that was overwhelming for him. Needless to say, he changed his ways when he got back! I don’t know if what he saw was purgatory or hell…and when Jesus died on the cross and descended to hell I don’t know if they mean hell or purgatory but obviously they are two very different concepts. Despite the man’s vision of the grey opressive after life, I tend to think purgatory must be kind of like earth…because we’re there to learn and purge - not to be punished. And if it were a place of just torture and suffering that eclipsed our ability to reason and understand, I don’t think we’d learn anything…

Just my two cents…

 

[KathleenGee]

I read a mystic’s account at your last moments…and that the soul is the one who continues to choose her course…people who do not love God and trust in His mercy to forgive them no matter what…continue on…

Your father could have said, ‘I did wrong, but please Christ, atone for my sins and forgive me…’

The soul throws itself into purgatory because it then sees God and knows the course it must take…for a person who sinned, but then turned to the Lord’s mercy, even at death, they do see God, cannot reach Him, until they are purified.

The woman I saw took her last death and did not move for about 2 minutes…no breathing, then I thought I saw her feet move under the blankets, then I saw her hand slowly come out out of the covers, no breathing, and then turn her head to look at her daughter, then looked at me, and then started to rise up towards me…

The daughter said she believed her stepmother was saved, because the daughter, a convert, would hear the priests praying the Office – she was their housekeeper – and hear passages of ‘look over at the hill’…the Lord is there…’ to that effect. It took me several years to get over the experience, but finally I believe she was saved. I did pray the Office over her, she fought me and then she finally admitted my prayers, and had alot of peace.

 

[StevieD]

I think he’s in hell. And I don’t see any difference simply because he was my father. I would think there are plenty of other fathers in hell also.

You’re quite right. Many people (which includes many fathers) go to hell, Our Lady said so at Fatima. This is something I have considered when praying for particular souls who have died in my own family but I am sure that prayer is never wasted and that if my prayer for an individual will not affect his state, that the benefit of such prayer is re-directed.
The fact that your father possibly saw a demon (or many) after his death is not proof that he has been lost, several NDE’s include accounts of people seeing such things but then being rescued from them by prayer and contrition. His appearing to you to apologise might well have been prompted by contrition. If you pray for him and offer Masses for him, your prayers are not wasted whatever his situation. And, you know, God knows all things and would know when he died that you were going to do so which might have counted for him.

 

[KathleenGee]

StevieD,

I think what you say is really the best response to the vision of the father…we don’t know…and it is best to continue to pray for him…

 

[gretahope]

A case for purgatory?

I know the Psalms are not typically used for teaching—but—“His mercy endureth forever…”

Forever means forever—I believe if there’s one fraction of an ounce of remorse that’s all that’s needed for God to work.