A World without Religion?

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Regarding the atheist, fascist regimes of the twentieth century, no atheist is arguing in favor of any of that. Yes, there was a lot of oppression and murder. That may be because of, I dunno, the fascism, don’t you think? Just a guess. 🤷
How about this: we Christians don’t support killing for God, and atheists don’t support killing to expunge the belief in God ;). Except for a few radicals here and there.
 
It’s people who really, really do know what the answer to everything is that you have to worry about and they can be religious or atheist.
It’s people who really, really don’t believe in any substantive answers to anything that I worry about. 😉

At least you can challenge the ones who have answers to everything.
 
Statistics show that Catholics are over represented in the prison population, atheists are under represented. :rolleyes:
Begging the question. Show me the statistics. 😉

When you are walking down a street and two groups of people are approaching you, one a group on one side of the street toting bibles, and the group on the other side of the street wielding bats and brass knuckles, which side of the street would you feel safer on?

Which group do you naturally suppose more likely to be homicidal?

Which group do you suppose to be with God?

Which group do you suppose to be without God?
 
shhhh!!! Don’t tell hime that atheists make up only 0.07% of federal prison population, it will only upset him
Who in prison is going to admit he is an atheist when he knows that won’t help him with the parole board? 😉
 
Whether atheism is an ideological or belief system as you note they still have their common precepts. Furthermore, this ideology has been applied for some time now to political and social issues, so it has a well enough defined ideology to be able to apply it’s “principles”. Furthermore, it becoming more organized to the point that many, even in the Atheist “community”, see it as a religion.
The Courts have also come to view atheism as a religion.

Type “atheism courts religion” in at Yahoo.
 
[BIBLEDRB][/BIBLEDRB]
LOL when is the next atheist crusade? Atheist witch trials? Militant atheists are at coffee shops and arguing in chatrooms, not committing acts of violence, which is more than I can say for medieval christians in their time.
The Crusades were self defense against the Muslims. Individual Knights made bad decisions, but the whole thing was not done unnecessarily. I don’t know anything about the witch trials to say anything.

That is nothing Compared to the 124 million+people killed by communists (who don’t like religion)(this is only Stalin and Mao) for disagreeing with the state or resisting at all
 
shhhh!!! Don’t tell hime that atheists make up only 0.07% of federal prison population, it will only upset him
Where is the source for this and how was this data gathered? Obviously they can’t go to every single prisoner and ask. They have to get a sample, and it could be incredibly biased (if it’s only at one prisoner for example)
 
How does atheism inculcate morals in the young?

In a society without religion, who would inculcate the morals of the young?

The State? Absolutely. Because in a society without a God the State will become Absolute. Children will have to learn the morals dictated by the State.

If the atheist thinks the State is more qualified than religion to transmit morals, upon what authority does the state dictate morals?

The social group with the biggest clubs?

The ACLU? 😃
 
In a society without religion, who would inculcate the morals of the young?

The State? Absolutely. Because in a society without a God the State will become Absolute. Children will have to learn the morals dictated by the State.
The state does not dictate morality. It is entirely personal.
If the atheist thinks the State is more qualified than religion to transmit morals, upon what authority does the state dictate morals?
Speaking as an atheist, I abhor the thought of anyone dictating to me what my morals should be. I’m pretty much certain that any reasonable person would likewise abhor it. Morality cannot be dictated. You cannot be told what you must think is right or wrong. You might believe that you personally, or you as a group, or you as a state or you as a religion have the right answers to any number of questions regarding morality. But unless you live in a totalitarian state or it’s equivalent, no-one has the right to tell you what to believe.

Consider religion. It invariably contains a prescription of how one should live. Indeed, how one must live if one is to be considered a member of that religion. But it is not compulsory. You are free to decide, whether you were born into that religion or have come to specifically choose it, whether the morality as described by that religion is acceptable to you. To do otherwise, to accept conditions on how one should live ones life, without any thought as to whether those conditions are correct, is to reject one’s own humanity. It would be an insult to all those that have struggled through the ages for the right to self autonomy.

America’s Declaration of Independence, France’s constitution, Paine’s The Rights of Man and the UN Declaration of Human Rights are testaments to the freedom to decide for oneself.

Members of religions (or states or any other group of individuals with a common belief) are, with some exceptions, not mindless drones. They do not blindly follow the relevant dogma. You can choose the right way to live. It’s written into the American and the Australian Constitutions for example.

So the state cannot, in any democratic country with similar constitutions or similar safeguards, dictate morality. And neither can religion. Because you are free, as an individual, to follow, or not, the religion of your choice and to accept, or not, their interpretations of what constitutes morality.

The vast majority of religions actually share the same moral precepts. There is no religion that says you should steal. There is no religion that says you should lie. There is no religion that says you can kill for personal gain. There are exceptions to these ideals but there is a commonality amongst them that is far from being coincidental. They may well be written in various scriptures of various religions but they are not the property of any one of them. Because these moral precepts are universal.

So when it comes down to who should be responsible for teaching morality to one’s children, the answer is obvious: their parents. Whether they be Christian, Muslim, atheist, pagan, Hindu or any other descriptive you’d like to place on them. If the children are lucky, their parents will have taken a good few years and listened to a good number of people before deciding how this world should be treated and how we should act within it.

Some will make mistakes. Some will pass on bad information. Some will fight for a right to dictate their own morality. But we will generally learn from our mistakes and make progress. Not everyone will agree it’s progress, but they will generally be the ones who wanted to dictate the direction themselves in the first instance.

So it ain’t the state, Charles. It ain’t your church. It’s you. You have the responsibility. What you pass on will either make this world a better place in which to live or it won’t. Generally speaking, the good ideas survive, so some of yours will undoubtedly live on. But others will be ultimately rejected. And we both know which ones those are.
 
It’s people who really, really don’t believe in any substantive answers to anything that I worry about. 😉
Oh, give me people who think “on the one hand but on the other hand” over people who know that the answer to everything is to sort out naughty people who aren’t doing what they’re told.
At least you can challenge the ones who have answers to everything.
Can involve huge wars though.
 
Begging the question.
You are indeed! :rolleyes:
Show me the statistics. 😉
You are the one trying to imply that atheism leads to criminality, I am merely pointing out that the facts don’t support that assertion. You provide the evidence for your assertion.
When you are walking down a street and two groups of people are approaching you, one a group on one side of the street toting bibles, and the group on the other side of the street wielding bats and brass knuckles, which side of the street would you feel safer on?
So now all atheists walk around “wielding bats and brass knuckles” do they? :doh2:
Who in prison is going to admit he is an atheist when he knows that won’t help him with the parole board? 😉
What was that about ‘begging the question’?:rolleyes:

You claimed that looking at the prison population would show a link between crime and atheism, now you are making excuses for prisoners not identifying as atheist?

I am emphatically not making the opposite argument that Catholicism causes criminality - even if the statistics were strong enough to support a link, there are all sorts of ways to explain them beyond a direct causal link. I am merely pointing out the fallacy and hypocrisy of your claim. Note how quickly you produce excuses for atheists being underrepresented, while you were happy to draw sweeping conclusions from an unsupported claim of atheists being over represented. 🤷
 
I am merely pointing out the fallacy and hypocrisy of your claim. Note how quickly you produce excuses for atheists being underrepresented, while you were happy to draw sweeping conclusions from an unsupported claim of atheists being over represented. 🤷
Yeah, I am astonished too. I don’t know what drives this.
I am emphatically not making the opposite argument that Catholicism causes criminality - even if the statistics were strong enough to support a link, there are all sorts of ways to explain them beyond a direct causal link.
Good to see some nuanced thinking here.
 
What are *you *using as your definition? Knowing that might help in understanding your statements in previous messages.
Point is “we” don’t have a set definition, I used the most convenient of course. 😃
an interest, a belief, or an activity that is very important to a person or group
This idea being its always existed and cannot, not exist. What the interest or activity or belief is, really isn’t of issue. Whats of issue is the collective belief in the issues which always existed, social man and survival was imperative. Further in this there is no and/or as interest, belief and activity are all imperative. In fact theres no reason to believe the first to encounter this experience didn’t credit God and give thanks. Sure they were “grateful” for the warmth and fire. They could have credited trial and error also [not historic though]. But more than likely they credited God in their state of exceeding happiness and warm. Fire God exists as long as recorded history exists.

Not only is the OP non sequitur, there’s no reason to believe “man” didn’t always believe in God and I don’t see where in recorded history a Fire God didn’t always exist. Thus God revealed how to survive before recording the act was needed and/or revealed.
 
LOL when is the next atheist crusade? Atheist witch trials? Militant atheists are at coffee shops and arguing in chatrooms, not committing acts of violence, which is more than I can say for medieval christians in their time.
Are we supposed to forget about Stalin and Mao and the fact that China’s atheists force million’s of women to have their child killed in their womb?

As far as sitting in internet cafes that is not so innocuous (as you would put it) because atheists are in forums all over the country supporting abortion as opposed to doing the right thing knowing that abortion was only approved because falsified statistics and legal loopholes not to mention what science has to say regarding the matter.

Furthermore, atheists are the most vocal supporters of a “women’s right to choose” and convince unwitting Christians that separation of church and state is patriotic and “moral”. I understand the facts of the matter are inconvenient not to mention the individual Atheist’s programmed inability to dissent from the mainstream, after all saying anything and everything in order to gain consensus can give one the impression of invincibility but the frank reality is everyone who does not condemn abortion supports it because it maintains the status quo. But worse than not speaking out against abortion is supporting it, and there is no other more vocal group of abortion supporters than the godless.
 
So it ain’t the state, Charles. It ain’t your church. It’s you. You have the responsibility. What you pass on will either make this world a better place in which to live or it won’t. Generally speaking, the good ideas survive, so some of yours will undoubtedly live on. But others will be ultimately rejected. And we both know which ones those are.
“The religions are all alike, no matter what they call themselves. They have no future – certainly none for the Germans. Fascism, if it likes, may come to terms with the Church. So shall I. Why not? That will not prevent me from tearing up Christianity root and branch and annihilating it in Germany.” Adolf Hitler

The State became Hitler and Hitler became the god of the Germans.

That’s what you’ll get in a world without religion.

A whole lot of hate. :eek:
 
Oh, give me people who think “on the one hand but on the other hand” over people who know that the answer to everything is to sort out naughty people who aren’t doing what they’re told.

Can involve huge wars though.
I think people who can’t decide what to think are easily led into huge wars started by people who also don’t know how to think. :rolleyes:
 
You claimed that looking at the prison population would show a link between crime and atheism, now you are making excuses for prisoners not identifying as atheist
Just using common sense. If you think atheists are going to tell prison officials they have no religion, that doesn’t even make sense. So yes, convicted convicts will lie just to get themselves half a chance with the parole board. They will adopt the first religion that comes to mind, often the religion of their parents or the religion they have heard most about.

Use common sense for a change.

adherents.com/misc/adh_prison.html
 
Yeah, I am astonished too. I don’t know what drives this.
Well, for starters there is Psalms 14:1, which apparently you are very good at ignoring since I have cited it several times and you still apparently think is not true. :confused:
 
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