AA

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estesbob said:
I have been sober for 28 years. AA got me here. i found over the years it is useless to argue with those who are either not alcoholics and or have never attended AA.
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Estes,

The guy who goes to the Church of What’s happening Now on a corner, whose life was trashed until he found Jesus, accepted Him as personal Lord and Savior and now has a great life without a drink and has Jesus…is adamant about hearing about the OHCAC and what it has to offer…deaf ears…they found Jesus…So, do we suggest that this works for everyone?

Your understanding of argument is different than mine. There are differing points of view. A point of view that differs with yours is not argument. Look at what you have posted…
  1. How long you been sober?
  2. How many AA meetings have you attended.
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So? The idea that an AA meeting is a worship service is one of the** silliest things I’ve ever heard.**** It appears that you came to this idea based on your personal interpretation of reading AA literature.If you don’t like AA that is your perogative but please do not discourage people desperately seeking sobriety from checking out this program that is helped millions of us obtain and maintain sobriety.**There is absolutely no conflict between attending AA meetings and practicing ones Catholic Faith
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I want to know if you’re giving advice about a program you have no experience with and a medical condition you do not have?
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If you have no experience whatsoever with alcoholic anonymous and either are not a alcoholic or have found another way to control your alcoholism I think the OP needs to know that when evaluating your advice.This is not a philosophical discussion. This is not a discussion about a person who is seeking help for a life-threatening condition. **i know from personal experience **that alcoholics anonymous is responsible for my 28 years of sobriety. I know as one who attends mass 5 to 6 times a week that in no way conflicts with the catholic faith.
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To the OP-hopefully you are still around after your thread was hijacked-in answer to your original question this might help:
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12-step-review.org/
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You are an empericist. Ok. That is one source of information. No knocking that. However when someone disagrees and offers information that contradicts your experience it is not argument. There is no data to back up that is has helped millions. There are countries as I recall it is not allowed. There are groups that will not accept it and there are controversies with AA. So does that mean the world is without another means to get help with a problem particularly when I showed you that it ranks 37/48 on a list of what works.

In contrast to your posting of AA and Chrsitianity look at an opposing view…

12 steps to another Gospel part 1/2

psychoheresy-aware.org/12steps1.html

psychoheresy-aware.org/12steps2.html

Is this argument or just another point of view that differs with yours?

Have you read the Catechism in it’s entirety?
 
CopticChristian said:
Estes,

The guy who goes to the Church of What’s happening Now on a corner, whose life was trashed until he found Jesus, accepted Him as personal Lord and Savior and now has a great life without a drink and has Jesus…is adamant about hearing about the OHCAC and what it has to offer…deaf ears…they found Jesus…So, do we suggest that this works for everyone?

Your understanding of argument is different than mine. There are differing points of view. A point of view that differs with yours is not argument. Look at what you have posted…

You are an empericist. Ok. That is one source of information. No knocking that. However when someone disagrees and offers information that contradicts your experience it is not argument. There is no data to back up that is has helped millions. There are countries as I recall it is not allowed. There are groups that will not accept it and there are controversies with AA. So does that mean the world is without another means to get help with a problem particularly when I showed you that it ranks 37/48 on a list of what works.

In contrast to your posting of AA and Chrsitianity look at an opposing view…

12 steps to another Gospel part 1/2

psychoheresy-aware.org/12steps1.html

psychoheresy-aware.org/12steps2.html

Is this argument or just another point of view that differs with yours?

Have you read the Catechism in it’s entirety?
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To be frank i dont care about your opinion of AA other than concern it may discourage someone from seeking help with their alcoholism. That concern is minor, however. We will continue to help those who see help. and I am sure we will continue to be condemned by some regardless of what we do.
 
estesbob said:
To be frank i dont care about your opinion of AA other than concern it may discourage someone from seeking help with their alcoholism. That concern is minor, however. We will continue to help those who see help. and I am sure we will continue to be condemned by some regardless of what we do.
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Estes,

It is my hope to encourage everyone that needs help gets it. It is my hope that those who seek help in AA know up front what they are getting into so that when they get to the 12th step they can honestly teach someone else. I hope that if they find that there are things that are not true that they find help elsewhere and in particular recognize that AA ranks 37/48 on help that is available. That isn’t too much to ask is it.

Have you read the Catechism in its entirety?
 
CopticChristian said:
Estes,

It is my hope to encourage everyone that needs help gets it. It is my hope that those who seek help in AA know up front what they are getting into so that when they get to the 12th step they can honestly teach someone else. I hope that if they find that there are things that are not true that they find help elsewhere and in particular recognize that AA ranks 37/48 on help that is available. That isn’t too much to ask is it.

Have you read the Catechism in its entirety?
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I’m sorry, but your posting on this thread seems as objective a a GM review of Ford products.
 
triumphguy said:
I’m sorry, but your posting on this thread seems as objective a a GM review of Ford products.
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Triumph,

your sorrow is heart felt. Your understanding of cars is understood. Your notion of facts is suspect.🙂
 
“No one seems to want to answer if they have read the Catechism in its entirety?”

You have by now received a response or two to this question, one, I might add, that is not exactly germane to the issue at hand.

I own a Catechism of Christian doctrine book and have not read it in its entirety, nor do I intend to. It is currently packed away in a storage unit ten miles from my home. It has no more relevance to this topic, IN MY OPINION, than has a USA Today newspaper reporting on the vagaries of the stock market. It is not the Holy Grail. It is not the end-all, be-all. It is not the Alpha and Omega of human thought. It is a sliver of doctrine and dogma, of which this world is overflowing - all colors, all flavors, all claiming to be the last word in something, all containing a tacit threat of “something bad happening” if people stray too far from their own particular color and flavor.

What I have is human observation and human experience, and a belief in a God that is far more friendly than that which is dispensed and mandated by any church. I also have God-given free will to choose a course of thought and action which I know within my soul to be righteous. No physician with a fist full of dogma is going to beat me up because he scoffs at the way I have experienced the world and this extremely complex business of living. No human being has the authority to denigrate my viewpoint because it does not align with his or hers. Disagree if you must, but once you come near me waving a sack full of doctrine with a belief that piety has your back, that’s when the discussion is OVER.
 
silenced said:
“No one seems to want to answer if they have read the Catechism in its entirety?”

You have by now received a response or two to this question, one, I might add, that is not exactly germane to the issue at hand.

I own a Catechism of Christian doctrine book and have not read it in its entirety, nor do I intend to. It is currently packed away in a storage unit ten miles from my home. It has no more relevance to this topic, IN MY OPINION, than has a USA Today newspaper reporting on the vagaries of the stock market. It is not the Holy Grail. It is not the end-all, be-all. It is not the Alpha and Omega of human thought. It is a sliver of doctrine and dogma, of which this world is overflowing - all colors, all flavors, all claiming to be the last word in something, all containing a tacit threat of “something bad happening” if people stray too far from their own particular color and flavor.

What I have is human observation and human experience, and a belief in a God that is far more friendly than that which is dispensed and mandated by any church. I also have God-given free will to choose a course of thought and action which I know within my soul to be righteous. No physician with a fist full of dogma is going to beat me up because he scoffs at the way I have experienced the world and this extremely complex business of living. No human being has the authority to denigrate my viewpoint because it does not align with his or hers. Disagree if you must, but once you come near me waving a sack full of doctrine with a belief that piety has your back, that’s when the discussion is OVER.
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I’m not sure why it would matter. I have read rhr Cathecism in is entirety, spent 4 years in. CA
 
silenced said:
“No one seems to want to answer if they have read the Catechism in its entirety?”

You have by now received a response or two to this question, one, I might add, that is not exactly germane to the issue at hand.

I own a Catechism of Christian doctrine book and have not read it in its entirety, nor do I intend to. It is currently packed away in a storage unit ten miles from my home. It has no more relevance to this topic, IN MY OPINION, than has a USA Today newspaper reporting on the vagaries of the stock market. It is not the Holy Grail. It is not the end-all, be-all. It is not the Alpha and Omega of human thought. It is a sliver of doctrine and dogma, of which this world is overflowing - all colors, all flavors, all claiming to be the last word in something, all containing a tacit threat of “something bad happening” if people stray too far from their own particular color and flavor.

What I have is human observation and human experience, and a belief in a God that is far more friendly than that which is dispensed and mandated by any church. I also have God-given free will to choose a course of thought and action which I know within my soul to be righteous. No physician with a fist full of dogma is going to beat me up because he scoffs at the way I have experienced the world and this extremely complex business of living. No human being has the authority to denigrate my viewpoint because it does not align with his or hers. Disagree if you must, but once you come near me waving a sack full of doctrine with a belief that piety has your back, that’s when the discussion is OVER.
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Silenced,

As a former imbiber you would be interested to know that the original document of AA was Christian oriented and has been recently published…

washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/21/AR2010092106531.html
For millions of addicts around the world, Alcoholics Anonymous’s basic text - informally known as the Big Book - is the Bible. And as they’re about to find out, the Bible was edited.
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Jack Cowley, a former prison warden who worked with AA for decades and now helps run faith-based prison programs, said the manuscript reflects “a cop-out” on Wilson’s part, to make an inherently religious process “the least confrontational.”
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“The power is in the understanding of how Christ can apply these [steps],” Cowley said. “It’s the scripture where the power is, it’s not AA. . . . This is the same thing we’re doing today. We’re downplaying the faith issue to get more people.”
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and here…

abcnews.go.com/US/alcoholics-anonymous-original-manuscript-bill-wilsons-big-book/story?id=11712226

Any question about the religous nature of the Big Book and AA should be dispelled with this revelation…
 
TheRealJuliane said:
Maybe by the time we finish the CCC, we no longer crave a drink?

:confused::confused:
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RJ,

Since you mentioned it…start with this…

As we believe, so we think and as we think so we act…now with that in mind…you will find this…

The Catechism is broken down into 4 parts…

What we Believe
How we live what we believe…the sacramental life
How we act morally to become Holy as God is Holy via the commandments and more
We pray and ask for help…

Start with this…🙂
 
silenced said:
Re: the CCC reading: Hilarious!!
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Silenced,

I find it funny too…I find reading difficult sometimes and as funny as it sounds what I chose to do to transform my mind by renewal was to listen to the USA Catechism over and over and now I can recall certain parts…and it gets better and better each time I listen…so it is a hoot. I am glad you appreaciate humor…👍
 
Mgray82 said:
Coptic, what is an addict?
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Mgray,

It depends on who you talk to…

Addict is a youtube video found here

youtube.com/watch?v=j4tAvzr4nsk

or a line of clothes found in the UK

addict.co.uk/

It is a word that has its roots in Latin Addicare…a slave…in fact a slave that was not a slave forever…in other words once an addict not always an addict…

Addict
Slaves given to Roman soldiers to reward them for performance in battle were known as addicts. Eventually, a person who was a slave to anything became known as an addict.

Tragically people have taken this word and applied it to behavior…it now is a label…I would rather think and express what it is someone is doing at anyone time…

They are acting addicted…

They were acting addicted and not now and now they are free

They are addicts…once addicted always addicted…The Scarlet Letter all over again…

What were you thinking?
 
CopticChristian said:
Mgray,

It depends on who you talk to…

Addict is a youtube video found here

youtube.com/watch?v=j4tAvzr4nsk

or a line of clothes found in the UK

addict.co.uk/

It is a word that has its roots in Latin Addicare…a slave…in fact a slave that was not a slave forever…in other words once an addict not always an addict…

Addict
Slaves given to Roman soldiers to reward them for performance in battle were known as addicts. Eventually, a person who was a slave to anything became known as an addict.

Tragically people have taken this word and applied it to behavior…it now is a label…I would rather think and express what it is someone is doing at anyone time…

They are acting addicted…

They were acting addicted and not now and now they are free

They are addicts…once addicted always addicted…The Scarlet Letter all over again…

What were you thinking?
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And sir, do you…on a daily basis…help people who have bad drinking “behaviors” and / or bad drug “habits”?
 
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