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Mgray82 said:
And sir, do you…on a daily basis…help people who have bad drinking “behaviors” and / or bad drug “habits”?
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Mgray,

I am involved on a regular basis helping people of all types. I appreciate your understanding of habit and for that reason offer a solution for you…here is Stanton Peele, Phd defintion of addiction…
The Experience of Addiction
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The question is: “If addiction isn’t a disease, then what is it?” An addiction is a habitual response and a source of gratification or security. It is a way of coping with internal feelings and external pressures that provides the addict with predictable gratifications, but that has concomitant costs. Eventually these costs may outweigh the subjective benefits the addiction offers the individual. Nonetheless, people continue their addictions as long as they believe the addictions continue to do something for them. It is important to place addictive habits in their proper context, as part of people’s lives, their personalities, their relationships, their environments, their perspectives. The effort to change an addiction will generally affect all these other facets of a person’s life as well.
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Now…let me ask you concerning Character defects…where did you learn that it was sin?
 
CopticChristian said:
Mgray,

I am involved on a regular basis helping people of all types. I appreciate your understanding of habit and for that reason offer a solution for you…here is Stanton Peele, Phd defintion of addiction…

Now…let me ask you concerning Character defects…where did you learn that it was sin?
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How many people in your life have you lost attributed to drugs and / or alcohol?
 
Mgray82 said:
How many people in your life have you lost attributed to drugs and / or alcohol?
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Mgray,

What is with you? How many people do you need to see die to know that things kill you…

I have witnessed and cared for people dying from

Heroin
Viral Pneumonia
Cancer
Cirrhosis
Pancreatitis
Gunshot wounds
Suicide
Leukemia
Overdose
Stab wounds
Babies are the worse
I hated harvesting organs for transplant…

I met Jessie Owens when he died and I shook his hand, I cared for one of The Zebra Killers, Tammy Wynette, and the husband of Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O’Connor…I shook her hand too…

What is your point…?

Tell me where you learned about sin and character defects…
 
Coptic, when I told you that I work my program that’s what I meant.

With that in mind…

Coptic, who works my program?
 
CopticChristian said:
Mgray,

What is with you? How many people do you need to see die to know that things kill you…

I have witnessed and cared for people dying from

Heroin
Viral Pneumonia
Cancer
Cirrhosis
Pancreatitis
Gunshot wounds
Suicide
Leukemia
Overdose
Stab wounds
Babies are the worse
I hated harvesting organs for transplant…

What is your point…?

Tell me where you learned about sin and character defects…
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That be the case, I should be making your salary.

Nobody pays me for what I do.

You carried any of their caskets to the grave?

I have.
 
Mgray82 said:
Coptic, when I told you that I work my program that’s what I meant.

With that in mind…

Coptic, who works my program?
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Mgray,

Where did you learn that a character defect was sin because if you look in the big book…

Concordance of the 3rd edition online found here…

royy.com/concord.html
Defect, 76, 450, 451
Defects, 50, 59, 72, 83, 99, 100, 118, 292, 380, 381, 450, 544
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Defect appears on these pages…and when you look for sin in the big book…

in the third edition it appears on these pages…
Sinecure, 409
Sinful, 135
Sing, 509
Sins, 13, 61, 519, 542
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When you look in the searchable 4th edition this is the only place you find sin…
Page 61: open
…self-centered - ego-centric, as people like to call it nowadays. He is like the retired business man who lolls in the Florida sunshine in the winter complaining of the sad state of the nation; the minister who sighs over the sins of the twentieth century; politicians and reformers who are sure all would be Utopia

Page 13: open
…as I then understood Him, to do with me as He would. I placed myself unreservedly under His care and direction. I admitted for the first time that of myself I was nothing; that without Him I was lost. I ruthlessly faced my sins and became willing to have my new-found Friend take them away, root and branch. I have not had a drink since. My schoolmate visited me, and I fully acquainted him with my problems and deficiencies. We made a list of people…
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So in the Big Book when facing your sins you become a Protestant and just ask for forgivenes…
 
Mgray82 said:
That be the case, I should be making your salary.

Nobody pays me for what I do.

You carried any of their caskets to the grave?

I have.
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Mrgay,

Do you believe that morticians and funeral parlors then are places to learn how to change behavior?
 
CopticChristian said:
Mgray,

Where did you learn that a character defect was sin because if you look in the big book…

Concordance of the 3rd edition online found here…

royy.com/concord.html

Defect appears on these pages…and when you look for sin in the big book…

in the third edition it appears on these pages…

When you look in the searchable 4th edition this is the only place you find sin…

So in the Big Book when facing your sins you become a Protestant and just ask for forgivenes…
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Oh, you’re the Pope now?
 
Coptic, since I run my own program;

Who told me character defects are sins?

(Obvious answer; me)
 
Mgray82 said:
Oh, you’re the Pope now?
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Mgray,

According to the Big Book all you have to do is just ruthlessly face your sins and have your new found friend take them away…root and branch…gone and then Bill says he never had a drink ever again…

So if taking away sins is the way to resolve the drink…why go to meetings?
 
CopticChristian said:
Mgray,

According to the Big Book all you have to do is just ruthlessly face your sins and have your new found friend take them away…root and branch…gone and then Bill says he never had a drink ever again…

So if taking away sins is the way to resolve the drink…why go to meetings?
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Yeah Coptic, see I don’t really care what the fallible, man-written Big Book says.

I’m telling you that my (my program, remember) assessment of the word “character defects” translates to “sin”.

I could care less about what you tell me you think it means. It’s sins.
 
Coptic, did God choose you to be a doctor or was this a decision you made for yourself?
 
CopticChristian said:
Mgray,

According to the Big Book all you have to do is just ruthlessly face your sins and have your new found friend take them away…root and branch…gone and then Bill says he never had a drink ever again…

So if taking away sins is the way to resolve the drink…why go to meetings?
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Because I like to help people. It’s a wonderful opportunity for me to share my hope and experience. And if I have a chance, to evangelize.

Do you get to evangelize your patients good doctor?
 
Doctor Coptic, are you able to look into your patients eyes and tell them that you know how it feels to suffer from leukemia or cancer?
 
Mgray82 said:
Coptic, since I run my own program;

Who told me character defects are sins?

(Obvious answer; me)
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Mgray,

If you look at the searchable Big Book, the AA Bible you never find anything that tells you that character defects are sin…here are a few examples.

search.atomz.com/search/?sp_q=character+defect&sp_a=sp05282c00&sp_f=iso-8859-1&sp-advanced=1&sp-p=any&sp-w-control=1&sp-w=alike&sp-c=100
Page 59: open
…Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our…
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Page 76: open
…When ready, we say something like this: “My Creator, I am now willing that you should have all of me, good and bad. I pray that you now remove from me every single defect of character which stands in the way of my usefulness to you and my fellows. Grant me strength, as I go out from here, to do your bidding. Amen.” We have then completed Step Seven. Now we need more action, without which we find that “Faith without works is dead.” Let’s look at…
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Mgray82 said:
Yeah Coptic, see I don’t really care what the fallible, man-written Big Book says.

I’m telling you that my (my program, remember) assessment of the word “character defects” translates to “sin”.

I could care less about what you tell me you think it means. It’s sins.
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Mgray,

So anyone that goes to AA meetings, reads the Big Book will never discover that these Character defects are sins until they read the Twelve and Twelve where they will find…page 46
Now let’s ponder the need for a list of the more glaring personality defects all of us have in varying degrees. To those having religious training, such a list would set forth serious violations of moral principles. Some others will think of this list as defects of character. Still others will call it an index of maladjustments. Some will become quite annoyed if there is talk about immorality,** let alone sin.** But all who are in the least reasonable will agree upon one point: that there is plenty wrong with us alcoholics about which plenty will have to be done if we are to expect sobriety, progress, and any real ability to cope with life.
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**To avoid falling into confusion over the names these de*fects should be called, let’s take a universally recognized list of major human failings—the Seven Deadly Sins of pride, greed, lust, anger, gluttony, envy, and sloth. **
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So you go to AA to find out that you are a sinner and your sins need to be forgiven…spiritual program? Spiritual? Religuous? Supreme Court?
 
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