AA

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CopticChristian said:
Andrew,

I am with you and now we are talking religion and not science, sin and salvation. I encourage you to listen, not read Augustine.

Have you started reading the Catechism or thought of purchasing an Audio Catechism?
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I’ve read the Catechism… why would I purchase an Audio Catechism, I usually listen to Fulton Sheen in my vehicle. Again, I doubt you have a tape of Augustine, if you did I will take a listen. I don’t know if they had cassettes in the 5th Century, but I suppose its possible.
 
CopticChristian said:
Andrew,

Now that you understand this do you believe that there is a possiblity of better habits that might be worth pursuing…?
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I’ve always understood this. Why would you think someone wouldn’t? Of course, I am pursuing better habits. I know you want to try to sell me on your program, but no thanks. As far as pursuing better habits, what do you think you do during the 12 Steps?
 
CopticChristian said:
Silenced,

Many people think they are depressed and treated for depression that are not. People are overdiagnosed with depression all the time. Physicians admit that they overdiagnose depression when all it is is sadness.

I always have a lot to learn. A gentlemen a few weeks ago stopped taking all his meds, lifted himself out of sadness, and was happy as a lark when he discovered that all he was dealing with was temporary sadness, not depression, as he thought he had…even though a visit to a psychiatrist yielded no understanding, no insight, just a prescription, because he wasn’t depressed…Do you want to tell him different?

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1949440/

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1962886/

Which books should I hit…?
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Yes, people are over-diagnosed as depressives all that time. All the more reason for responsible people to take great pains not to lump all depressions together. Every patient has a right to be considered as an individual. Psychiatrists are not called upon to offer understanding. Their job is to write prescriptions. A certified PhD Psychologist or a Social Worker is more prepared to handle the cognitive aspects of the patient’s depression and to help the patient work through the mood swings and their attendant consequences.

Do I want to tell your gentleman any different? Why would I? I’m not a doctor. I didn’t overprescribe. I didn’t label him a depressive. He does not need me to define his experiences. Yet I wouldn’t be surprised to hear that he topples off that pink cloud eventually and winds up wondering just what went wrong. I have no advice for him. His experiences are better left un-meddled-with.

Maybe this book will help: “Manic-Depressive Illness: Bipolar Disorders and Recurrent Depression, 2nd Edition [Hardcover]”, Drs. Frederick Goodwin and Kay Redfield Jamison. This is but one of thousands of books on the topic - if you don’t like this one investigate others.

Yes, these are sometimes referred to as “soft sciences”, but knowledge is power. It’s just as advantageous to learn and know that with which you disagree as that with which you agree.
 
Andrew1980 said:
I’ve read the Catechism… why would I purchase an Audio Catechism, I usually listen to Fulton Sheen in my vehicle. Again, I doubt you have a tape of Augustine, if you did I will take a listen. I don’t know if they had cassettes in the 5th Century, but I suppose its possible.
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Andrew,

I provided you the link to the Confessions previously…found here…free…listen a few times and get back to me…

archive.org/details/confessions_augustine_0911_librivox
 
Andrew1980 said:
I’ve always understood this. Why would you think someone wouldn’t? Of course, I am pursuing better habits. I know you want to try to sell me on your program, but no thanks. As far as pursuing better habits, what do you think you do during the 12 Steps?
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Andrew,

So, you believe that you should pursue better habits, wonderful. Now tell me what you know about virtue.
 
silenced said:
Yes, people are over-diagnosed as depressives all that time. All the more reason for responsible people to take great pains not to lump all depressions together. Every patient has a right to be considered as an individual. Psychiatrists are not called upon to offer understanding. Their job is to write prescriptions. A certified PhD Psychologist or a Social Worker is more prepared to handle the cognitive aspects of the patient’s depression and to help the patient work through the mood swings and their attendant consequences.

Do I want to tell your gentleman any different? Why would I? I’m not a doctor. I didn’t overprescribe. I didn’t label him a depressive. He does not need me to define his experiences. Yet I wouldn’t be surprised to hear that he topples off that pink cloud eventually and winds up wondering just what went wrong. I have no advice for him. His experiences are better left un-meddled-with.

Maybe this book will help: “Manic-Depressive Illness: Bipolar Disorders and Recurrent Depression, 2nd Edition [Hardcover]”, Drs. Frederick Goodwin and Kay Redfield Jamison. This is but one of thousands of books on the topic - if you don’t like this one investigate others.

Yes, these are sometimes referred to as “soft sciences”, but knowledge is power. It’s just as advantageous to learn and know that with which you disagree as that with which you agree.
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Silenced,

The practice of medicine is knowing what you know and knowing what you don’t know, doing what you can with what you know and knowing when you can’t and can find someone that can. That is the art. I am an artist.
 
Andrew1980 said:
Why listen to the audio, when you can just buy the book? You do realize that the link isn’t actually Augustine speaking, correct?
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Andrew,

You are kidding are you not. This recording is not Augustine. You mean it was not recorded by him. Silly Andrew.

You realize that when you read you hear no voice unless you read aloud and then it is your voice with your inflection and listening is complicated by that action.

I suggest you listen so as to concentrate on just the listening, doing nothing but listening and as you listen see what you hear while you do nothing else.
 
Mgray82 said:
Coptic, why do physicians prescribe the drug Antabuse?
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Mgray,

Why. You may ask questions that yield better answers such as what and how, but that is another story.

Let’s see. Mgray asks me why? He is thinking that perhaps if I answer this then I fall into the trap of, let’s see…DISEASE?..nahhhhh…not Mgray…he is in RCIA, he is learning Charity…he wouldn’t do anything devious now would he…hummmm

Ok…so let’s answer this with honesty and experience.

Antabuse is a medication that people that drink usually ask for to stop them from drinking. It is a nasty drug. The behavior is taking a drink to the mouth…the real problem, ie why in the world would anyone drink so much that they need to try a drug like Antabuse to stop is beyond me…anyway…it is a medication that when taken and when someone drinks they get sick and vomit…

It an attempt to help people get sicker from their self induced poisoning when self poisoning believing that this may change the behavior of self induced poisoning.

Now I have seen too many people drink and vomit while taking Antabuse…the desire to drink, the habit is so ingrained that getting sick does not dissuade the behavior. They have a bad habit that continues even when they vomit…

They make themselves get sick, self induced sickness, but the sickness is not the ailment because there are remedies for the symptom of vomitting

and

there are remedies for self induced poisoning…

So, before I poisoned myself, I was not sick, ie no disease, but after I poisoned myself I have the disease of self induced poisoning that is not a disease unto itself since I was healthy before and when I stop poisoning myself I get better…

You cannot catch being poisoned
Sneezing won’t transmit being poisoned
Bacteria wont transmit self induced poisoning
Virus won’t transmit self induced poisoning
Coughing won’t transmit poisoning
Poisoning isn’t genetic
Poisoning causes metabolic problems but it is not a metabolic problem unto itself

So then Antabuse is prescribed because people suffer from self induced poisoning that aggravates the illness of self induced poisoning if you drink and when they stop the poisoning is no longer there and they are cured, and taking antabuse is to stop the self induced poisoning…

once poisoned always poisoned…uh, uh…once poisoned and relieved of the poison…no longer poisoned…

How’d I do?

You are a funny guy…😛

Now I think you should notice that I have asked many times whether or not someone with alcholism should think about going to a Methodist Church as opposed to an AA meeting and you have yet to answer. I think they would get the same results. Do you agree or disagree? 3495 people viewing want to know what you think…
 
CopticChristian said:
Mgray,

Why. You may ask questions that yield better answers such as what and how, but that is another story.

Let’s see. Mgray asks me why? He is thinking that perhaps if I answer this then I fall into the trap of, let’s see…DISEASE?..nahhhhh…not Mgray…he is in RCIA, he is learning Charity…he wouldn’t do anything devious now would he…hummmm

Ok…so let’s answer this with honesty and experience.

Antabuse is a medication that people that drink usually ask for to stop them from drinking. It is a nasty drug. The behavior is taking a drink to the mouth…the real problem, ie why in the world would anyone drink so much that they need to try a drug like Antabuse to stop is beyond me…anyway…it is a medication that when taken and when someone drinks they get sick and vomit…

Now I have seen too many people drink and vomit while taking Antabuse…the desire to drink, the habit is so ingrained that getting sick does not dissuade the behavior. They have a bad habit that continues even when they vomit…

They make themselves get sick, self induced sickness, but the sickness is not the ailment because there are remedies for the symptom of vomitting

and

there are remedies for self induced poisoning…

So, before I poisoned myself, I was not sick, ie no disease, but after I poisoned myself I have the disease of self induced poisoning that is not a disease unto itself since I was healthy before and when I stop poisoning myself I get better…

You cannot catch being poisoned
Sneezing won’t transmit being poisoned
Bacteria wont transmit self induced poisoning
Virus won’t transmit self induced poisoning
Coughing won’t transmit poisoning
Poisoning isn’t genetic
Poisoning causes metabolic problems but it is not a metabolic problem unto itself

So then Antabuse is prescribed because people suffer from self induced poisoning that causes the illness of poisoning and when they stop the poisoning is no longer there and they are cured, and taking antabuse is to stop the self induced poisoning…

once poisoned always poisoned…uh, uh…once poisoned and relieved of the poison…no longer poisoned…

How’d I do?

You are a funny guy…😛
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I was a Christian before I joined RCIA Coptic. Charity does exist in other areas of faith.

Alcohol is such a problem with individuals that the medical field has produced medication to prevent people from drinking.

“This medication is used along with counseling and support to treat alcoholism. Disulfiram works by blocking the processing of alcohol in the body. This causes you to have a bad reaction when you drink alcohol.”

From;

webmd.com/drugs/drug-6676-Antabuse+Oral.aspx?drugid=6676&drugname=Antabuse+Oral&source=1
 
CopticChristian said:
Now I think you should notice that I have asked many times whether or not someone with alcholism should think about going to a Methodist Church as opposed to an AA meeting and you have yet to answer. I think they would get the same results. Do you agree or disagree? 3495 people viewing want to know what you think…
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Depends if the Methodist church has AA meetings there. But if someone who was a Methodist went to a Methodist church and got sober I would say “praise The Lord”. Who am I to question what God can do.

The church thing didn’t work for me Coptic. I’m not saying it can’t for someone else.

How’s that?

And for you and the 3495 people viewing, I attend AA at a Methodist, Baptist, Episcopalian, and Catholic Church weekly. I go there for AA, not to discuss theology or church doctrine. I’m grateful that the Protestant churches open their doors for AA.

I also help a lot of people with rides, donating time and money and providing services for the public who struggle with addiction. Because I love to do it, and I do it for free.
 
Andrew1980 said:
Addiction is simply when a sin has become habitual to the point that the person becomes much more susceptable to commiting the sin and then repeating the sin frequently. Recovery is the process of coping with the effects of habitual sin and seeing the root causes of our sin in order to be able to live a life free of sin in the grace of God.
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I disagree with your assessment of addiction. My wife is a recovering alcoholic and it has not been an easy road. My entire family has suffered greatly from my wife’s addiction to alcohol and I have lived with this for 35 years now. Just a little background so you know where I’m coming from.

Having a drink is not a sin. My wife’s alcoholism was not a result of abusing alcohol. I know, I have been with her since we were in High School. It’s a very progressive disease and as the years past she found that she could not have just one drink as we did in the past. She hid that from all of us until it became obvious that something was very wrong. I won’t go into the gory details. Suffice it to say that when my wife is detoxing she would do anything in her power to have another drink. It is like watching someone who can’t breathe struggle for another breath; that’s how bad she needs it.

So I take a little offense when one implies that it is a character flaw. I can have a drink (which I haven’t for 20 years out of deference to my wife) and could care less if I ever have another. She physically can’t. So this is not a matter of committing a sin over and over until it becomes a habit. Not by a long shot.
 
SteveVH said:
I disagree with your assessment of addiction. My wife is a recovering alcoholic and it has not been an easy road. My entire family has suffered greatly from my wife’s addiction to alcohol and I have lived with this for 35 years now. Just a little background so you know where I’m coming from.

Having a drink is not a sin. My wife’s alcoholism was not a result of abusing alcohol. I know, I have been with her since we were in High School. It’s a very progressive disease and as the years past she found that she could not have just one drink as we did in the past. She hid that from all of us until it became obvious that something was very wrong. I won’t go into the gory details. Suffice it to say that when my wife is detoxing she would do anything in her power to have another drink. It is like watching someone who can’t breathe struggle for another breath; that’s how bad she needs it.

So I take a little offense when one implies that it is a character flaw. I can have a drink (which I haven’t for 20 years out of deference to my wife) and could care less if I ever have another. She physically can’t. So this is not a matter of committing a sin over and over until it becomes a habit. Not by a long shot.
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Thanks for sharing that SteveVH. Unfortunately, if you take offense…you’re going to be highly offended by some of the content of this thread as there’s a few people here who think they’ve got it all figured out when in reality, they haven’t seen the beginning of it. Let alone the end…and I pray they never do.

God bless.
 
AA has changed drastically. Read about the beginnings. Read about Sr. Ignatia.
 
Mgray82 said:
Thanks for sharing that SteveVH. Unfortunately, if you take offense…you’re going to be highly offended by some of the content of this thread as there’s a few people here who think they’ve got it all figured out when in reality, they haven’t seen the beginning of it. Let alone the end…and I pray they never do.

God bless.
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I’m a little sensitive to this subject right now as I almost lost her just a couple of weeks ago. There are a lot of people who drink for various reasons. About the only thing I have against AA is this:

Lets take someone who gets in the habit of going to the bar after work each day. Yes, he abuses the alcohol and it becomes a habit. Finally he smashes into another car on the way home and ends up in court. The judge gives him a sentance that includes attending AA every day for three months. He soon finds out that if he does not admit that he is an alcoholic then he is in denial. He stands up and says “Hi everyone, my name is Bob and I’m an Alcoholic”. This guy sees the error of his ways and never has another drink. He’s one of those that stays sober and attends AA every day until he gets his 30 year chip.

Then you have the person that can go a week, a month, a year, maybe even 5 years, and still falls off the wagon. They can never seem to just put it down and they wonder why some people can get their 30 year chip and they end up starting over every three months.

I believe there are people who have drinking problems that are not alcoholics in the true sense. It all works for them. Then you have the person that is genetically disposed; that is missing an enzyme in their liver that breaks down alcohol. If they have a drink there is no stopping them, and sadly, most of them die, hopefully without killing someone else in the process. AA does not distinguish between a problem drinker and a true alcoholic and so I think what works for one, may not work for another.
 
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