AA

[Pythons]

I just proposed to my girlfriend. This is an absolute insult and I’m utterly disgusted to read this.

Congratulations Mgray82 on asking the big question to your girlfriend…
…I was in your shoes about 15 years ago - living with my then girlfriend.

Mgray:

These are the type of people we want out evangelizing?

Who do you mean?

Mgray:

Maybe that voice I hear in my mind really is God telling me “Come home. The Church needs you”.

Not sure I understand you?

 

[Pythons]

Wow.

You are seriously misguided.

Lots of folks don’t get sober in AA. Just like lots of folks don’t get sober going to therapy.

But AA is most certainly not a cult.

I’ve been to AA meetings in many different states and cities and have never walked out of a meeting thinking it was a hookup scene or a cult.

I’m sorry you have such a bad perception of such a very good program.

I can only share what I’ve experienced from speaking with several people from Seattle I know…
…And my own Sister who went through the program ( was involved for 8 or 9 years ).
…The experience was IDENTICAL in all cases.

Look, I know that AA has worked for many people but on the same hand a person who joins Scientology or the JW’s claims the same thing…
…In the case of AA the guys who I know that attended it gloated that it was one of the best “meat markets” they had ever seen!
…In my Sisters case she never talked that way about it but the actual RESULTS were identical.

From what I’ve seen it’s an absoulte CULT - I’m not a drinker at all, don’t do any drugs…
…And my Sister was told not to communicate with me because her “sponsor” said it wasn’t good for her, at that time.
…My Sister talked about this person as if she was some kind of martial arts expert, a super guru.

Perhaps it was just a fluke that the AA my sister attended in Portland Or & Montana…
…And the couple in Seattle where I live operated in the same way, I don’t know.
…All that I know is that AA’s trend is to help people stop drinking and start screwing around.

 

[CopticChristian]

AA has changed drastically. Read about the beginnings. Read about Sr. Ignatia.

Lor,
Reality is that AA has not changed at all since inception with exception of rehab centers touting AA.

 

[Mgray82]

Lor,
Reality is that AA has not changed at all since inception with exception of rehab centers touting AA.

Spoken from a man that’s neither an alcoholic or has ever been to an AA meeting…

 

[Mgray82]

Congratulations Mgray82 on asking the big question to your girlfriend…
…I was in your shoes about 15 years ago - living with my then girlfriend.

Who do you mean?

Not sure I understand you?

I was referring to the nonsense you were saying about people who go to AA for sex.

 

[Pythons]

I was referring to the nonsense you were saying about people who go to AA for sex.

I’m not saying ALL people go there for it Mgray82, I’m saying that the culture of AA “fosters” sex…
…It’s a religion unto itself that can and does help people stop drinking while performing the services of a “meat market”.
…Generally the highest level guru gets 1st crack and the ladies ( aka pork ) then it runs down through the lower ranks.
…The young ones are called “supple pork”.

Listen to internet radio with stop13stepinaa on Blog Talk Radio

guardian.co.uk/uk/2000/jul/05/gerardseenan

leavingaa.com/alternativeto12step,StopsexualharassmentinAA/sexual-predators-in-aa/

And here is AA openly affirming they have a “supple pork” problem.

aa.org.au/members/documents/predators.pdf

So perhaps instead of shilling for AA you should realize that some of us here have had Family members involved in this cult…
…And watched FIRST HAND what “other help” AA offered in addition to curbing the drinking.

One of the people I know in Seattle ( a past co worker ) who is gay gloated over all the attention he got at AA meetings…
…So the supple pork thing applied to gay people as well!

Make no mistake, AA does help get people to stop drinking - big deal, so does Scientology and the Taliban…
…My issue is all the other garbage that comes included with AA.

 

[silenced]

I’m not saying ALL people go there for it Mgray82, I’m saying that the culture of AA “fosters” sex…
…It’s a religion unto itself that can and does help people stop drinking while performing the services of a “meat market”.
…Generally the highest level guru gets 1st crack and the ladies ( aka pork ) then it runs down through the lower ranks.
…The young ones are called “supple pork”.

Listen to internet radio with stop13stepinaa on Blog Talk Radio

guardian.co.uk/uk/2000/jul/05/gerardseenan

leavingaa.com/alternativeto12step,StopsexualharassmentinAA/sexual-predators-in-aa/

And here is AA openly affirming they have a “supple pork” problem.

aa.org.au/members/documents/predators.pdf

So perhaps instead of shilling for AA you should realize that some of us here have had Family members involved in this cult…
…And watched FIRST HAND what “other help” AA offered in addition to curbing the drinking.

One of the people I know in Seattle ( a past co worker ) who is gay gloated over all the attention he got at AA meetings…
…So the supple pork thing applied to gay people as well!

Make no mistake, AA does help get people to stop drinking - big deal, so does Scientology and the Taliban…
…My issue is all the other garbage that comes included with AA.

Please carry your sack of stuff over to the Orange Papers online. They would love to have you moralize over there - you’d fit right in.

 

[silenced]

Silenced,

The practice of medicine is knowing what you know and knowing what you don’t know, doing what you can with what you know and knowing when you can’t and can find someone that can. That is the art. I am an artist.

That is a craft. You are a craftsman, you are not an artist.

 

[CopticChristian]

Spoken from a man that’s neither an alcoholic or has ever been to an AA meeting…

Mgray,

I can spit further than you can, my feet are bigger than yours, my dad can beat up your dad, who can tell the worst story of drinking and drugging…this is the AA mentality. Try to elevate your thinking.

 

[CopticChristian]

I’m not saying ALL people go there for it Mgray82, I’m saying that the culture of AA “fosters” sex…
…It’s a religion unto itself that can and does help people stop drinking while performing the services of a “meat market”.
…Generally the highest level guru gets 1st crack and the ladies ( aka pork ) then it runs down through the lower ranks.
…The young ones are called “supple pork”.

Listen to internet radio with stop13stepinaa on Blog Talk Radio

guardian.co.uk/uk/2000/jul/05/gerardseenan

leavingaa.com/alternativeto12step,StopsexualharassmentinAA/sexual-predators-in-aa/

And here is AA openly affirming they have a “supple pork” problem.

aa.org.au/members/documents/predators.pdf

So perhaps instead of shilling for AA you should realize that some of us here have had Family members involved in this cult…
…And watched FIRST HAND what “other help” AA offered in addition to curbing the drinking.

One of the people I know in Seattle ( a past co worker ) who is gay gloated over all the attention he got at AA meetings…
…So the supple pork thing applied to gay people as well!

Make no mistake, AA does help get people to stop drinking - big deal, so does Scientology and the Taliban…
…My issue is all the other garbage that comes included with AA.

Pythons,

This is an indictment of humanity, not AA. These things happen however AA does not promote this in their writing, philosophy or any other place. People are people and where you find people that make mistakes you find people that make mistakes however it is more an indictment of the human condition not the place that it happens at.

 

[CopticChristian]

That is a craft. You are a craftsman, you are not an artist.

Silenced,

Your opinion is acknowledged as your opinion. You can’t please everyone.

 

[CopticChristian]

Depends if the Methodist church has AA meetings there. But if someone who was a Methodist went to a Methodist church and got sober I would say “praise The Lord”. Who am I to question what God can do.

The church thing didn’t work for me Coptic. I’m not saying it can’t for someone else.

How’s that?

And for you and the 3495 people viewing, I attend AA at a Methodist, Baptist, Episcopalian, and Catholic Church weekly. I go there for AA, not to discuss theology or church doctrine. I’m grateful that the Protestant churches open their doors for AA.

I also help a lot of people with rides, donating time and money and providing services for the public who struggle with addiction. Because I love to do it, and I do it for free.

Andrew,

You can find most of what AA teaches at Methodist Churches…

Following a tradition of the early church and the Wesley revival, the
Oxford Group systematized a series of “steps” as a process of cleansing
one’s inner life. These “steps” were later adapted by Alcoholics
Anonymous, with much of the Christian basis ignored. They are here
re-adapted emphasizing this great Christian base so integral to the
wholeness sought. Here the center of wholeness is recognized as the
Lord Jesus Christ. The “steps” have also been changed to conform to
other principles at discipleship and Christian growth. If a Christian
will vigorously apply these principles, and make these decisions, that
person will move toward “Teleios”-Wholeness in Christ.

1. I now see that I, of myself, am powerless, unable to control (manage)
   my life by myself.

Romans 7-8 Romans 7:16-19 Psalm 32:3-7 Romans 3:9-10 Romans 3:23

1. I now realize that my Creator, God the Father Son, and Holy Spirit,
   can restore me to wholeness in Christ.

Psalm 27:4-5 Mark 10:26-27 Philippians 2:13 Romans 8:9 Ezekiel 36:27

1. I now make a conscious decision to turn my entire will and life over
   to the care and direction of Jesus Christ as Teacher, Healer, Savior and
   Lord.

Joshua 1:6-9 Jeremiah 29:11-14 Jeremiah 32:27 John 14:6 John 10:30 Mark
10.?7 Matthew 28:18, 20b

1. Having made this decision, I now obey God’s call in Scripture to make
   a fearless ethical, moral, and scriptural inventory of my entire life in
   order to uncover all sins, mistakes, and character defects. and to make
   a written list of every item uncovered.

Psalm 139:23-24 Lamentations 3:40 Jeremiah 23:24 Romans 8:26-27

1. After completing this inventory I will now will to “walk in the
   light, as He is in the light” by admitting to myself, to God. and to at
   least one other person in Christ the exact nature of these wrongs.

1 John 1:7 Ephesians 6:13-14 Psalm 119:9-11 1 Timothy 1:15 Acts 13:38-39
James 5:13-l6 Hebrews 9:14 Acts 2:37-38

1. Having agreed with God about my sinful behavior, I now ask His
   forgiveness through Christ and openly acknowledge that I am forgiven
   according to the Scripture.

I John 1:8-9 James 4:10 1 John 2:1-2 Psalms 27:13-14 Psalms 110:18, then
17

1. I now repent (turn away) from all these behaviors in thought, word,
   and deed and ask God to remove each besetting sin, through Jesus
   Christ.

John 5:14 John 8:10-11 Job 11:13-19 Ezekiel 18:30-32 Romans 5-6 Romans
12:1-2 1 John 2:3-6 2 Corinthians 10:5 Colossians 3:17

1. I now make a list of all persons I have harmed in thought, word, and
   deed and a list of all persons I believe have harmed me, and will to
   make amends to all of them.

Ephesians 4:29-32 Hosea 11:1-4 Ephesians 5:1-2 Luke 6:31 Matthew 5:43-44
Matthew 18:15 Leviticus 19:17-18 Mark 12:31 Matthew 5:9

1. I now go directly to these persons to forgive and to seek
   forgiveness, reconciliation restitution, or release whenever and with
   whomever possible, unless to do so would cause further harm.

Matthew 5:23-24 Isaiah 1:15-20

1. I now; consciously and prayerfully continue to “walk In the light”
   by unceasingly taking personal inventory of all my temptations and sins,
   and by keeping a constantly open relationship with God, myself, and
   other persons.

Matthew 26:41 James 1:13-15 Matthew 6:11-13 Colossians 3:13 Proverbs
30:8-9 Ephesians 5:15-18 Psalms 4:3-5 Psalms 55:22 1 Peter 5:6-7
Ephesians 4:22-28

1. I now continue in regular Scripture, study, prayer, worship and
   fellowship to increase God’s will in my life.

Acts 2:42 Mark 12:28-33 Matthew 6:33 Psalms 89:15 Joshua 1:6 1 Kings
8:68*61 Colossians 3:12-17

1. Recognizing the impact of God in my life, I now intentionally share
   these principles and their effect with others as God’s Spirit leads, and
   will practice these principles in all areas of my life.

Micah 6:8 Ephesians 5:8 Psalms 40:8-10 Galatians 5:1 Revelation 12:1 2
Corinthians 3:17 Ephesians 6:10-18

This is the foundation and I will later provide the Wesleyan Method that was used for the foundation of AA…

Why not just become a Methodist for awhile, meet with the minister, fellowship with the congregation, find Christ, never diseased and then come home to the OHCAC?

 

[CopticChristian]

I’m a little sensitive to this subject right now as I almost lost her just a couple of weeks ago. There are a lot of people who drink for various reasons. About the only thing I have against AA is this:

Lets take someone who gets in the habit of going to the bar after work each day. Yes, he abuses the alcohol and it becomes a habit. Finally he smashes into another car on the way home and ends up in court. The judge gives him a sentance that includes attending AA every day for three months. He soon finds out that if he does not admit that he is an alcoholic then he is in denial. He stands up and says “Hi everyone, my name is Bob and I’m an Alcoholic”. This guy sees the error of his ways and never has another drink. He’s one of those that stays sober and attends AA every day until he gets his 30 year chip.

Then you have the person that can go a week, a month, a year, maybe even 5 years, and still falls off the wagon. They can never seem to just put it down and they wonder why some people can get their 30 year chip and they end up starting over every three months.

**I believe there are people who have drinking problems that are not alcoholics in the true sense. ** It all works for them. Then you have the person that is genetically disposed; that is missing an enzyme in their liver that breaks down alcohol. If they have a drink there is no stopping them, and sadly, most of them die, hopefully without killing someone else in the process. AA does not distinguish between a problem drinker and a true alcoholic and so I think what works for one, may not work for another.

Steve,

You can accept this or believe that people drink and have problems. What is an alcoholic in the true sense? According to whom and based on what. You may want to consider contacting Reid Hester, PhD or Nancy Handmaker, PhD, in New Mexico to see if they know anyone in your area that knows about the things that work you may not have tried. I have had conversations with Nancy Handmaker and she is very nice and helpful.

 

[CopticChristian]

I disagree with your assessment of addiction. My wife is a recovering alcoholic and it has not been an easy road. My entire family has suffered greatly from my wife’s addiction to alcohol and I have lived with this for 35 years now. Just a little background so you know where I’m coming from.

Having a drink is not a sin. My wife’s alcoholism was not a result of abusing alcohol. I know, I have been with her since we were in High School. It’s a very progressive disease and as the years past she found that she could not have just one drink as we did in the past. She hid that from all of us until it became obvious that something was very wrong. I won’t go into the gory details. Suffice it to say that when my wife is detoxing she would do anything in her power to have another drink. It is like watching someone who can’t breathe struggle for another breath; that’s how bad she needs it.

So I take a little offense when one implies that it is a character flaw. I can have a drink (which I haven’t for 20 years out of deference to my wife) and could care less if I ever have another. She physically can’t. So this is not a matter of committing a sin over and over until it becomes a habit. Not by a long shot.

Steve,

I have witnessed this behavior. It is difficult. Many do not understand that the brain when pickled is not a normal brain. It is not diseased, just pickled. It cannot function normally and based on the constant pickling is not making rational decisions. The self is divorced from these decisions. People are held responsible however for actions that they perform while pickled as you know but there should be no condemnation for those that make mistakes while pickled. Empathy, understanding and consideration should be provided with aid to gain proper help as we all know no one truly wants to continue to pickle their brain. This is a difficult situation and I understand.

 

[CopticChristian]

Spoken from a man that’s neither an alcoholic or has ever been to an AA meeting…

Mgray,

Facts, just the facts, while I do not agree with the conclusion of this article, the point that the 12 step program remains unchanged is noted…

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2859791/

Also, given that the content of the AA 12-step program (AA, 1939)—as explicated in the “Big Book” when first published in 1939 and that remains unchanged in the fourth edition (AA, 2001)—

 

[Mgray82]

I’m not saying ALL people go there for it Mgray82, I’m saying that the culture of AA “fosters” sex…
…It’s a religion unto itself that can and does help people stop drinking while performing the services of a “meat market”.
…Generally the highest level guru gets 1st crack and the ladies ( aka pork ) then it runs down through the lower ranks.
…The young ones are called “supple pork”.

Listen to internet radio with stop13stepinaa on Blog Talk Radio

guardian.co.uk/uk/2000/jul/05/gerardseenan

leavingaa.com/alternativeto12step,StopsexualharassmentinAA/sexual-predators-in-aa/

And here is AA openly affirming they have a “supple pork” problem.

aa.org.au/members/documents/predators.pdf

So perhaps instead of shilling for AA you should realize that some of us here have had Family members involved in this cult…
…And watched FIRST HAND what “other help” AA offered in addition to curbing the drinking.

One of the people I know in Seattle ( a past co worker ) who is gay gloated over all the attention he got at AA meetings…
…So the supple pork thing applied to gay people as well!

Make no mistake, AA does help get people to stop drinking - big deal, so does Scientology and the Taliban…
…My issue is all the other garbage that comes included with AA.

You wouldn’t have any luck evangelizing any drunks…

 

[Mgray82]

Mgray,

I can spit further than you can, my feet are bigger than yours, my dad can beat up your dad, who can tell the worst story of drinking and drugging…this is the AA mentality. Try to elevate your thinking.

I’m pretty sure you’re wrong about all of those things!

 

[silenced]

Silenced,

Your opinion is acknowledged as your opinion. You can’t please everyone.

Neither can you.

 

[Mgray82]

You will not get to me Coptic…

Re-shape your strategy, personal attacks will not work.

 

[Andrew1980]

I disagree with your assessment of addiction. My wife is a recovering alcoholic and it has not been an easy road. My entire family has suffered greatly from my wife’s addiction to alcohol and I have lived with this for 35 years now. Just a little background so you know where I’m coming from.

Having a drink is not a sin. My wife’s alcoholism was not a result of abusing alcohol. I know, I have been with her since we were in High School. It’s a very progressive disease and as the years past she found that she could not have just one drink as we did in the past. She hid that from all of us until it became obvious that something was very wrong. I won’t go into the gory details. Suffice it to say that when my wife is detoxing she would do anything in her power to have another drink. It is like watching someone who can’t breathe struggle for another breath; that’s how bad she needs it.

So I take a little offense when one implies that it is a character flaw. I can have a drink (which I haven’t for 20 years out of deference to my wife) and could care less if I ever have another. She physically can’t. So this is not a matter of committing a sin over and over until it becomes a habit. Not by a long shot.

Sorry to offend, I come from SA in which case our drug is lust. Your description of your wife’s tendency for Alchohol mirros my tendency for lust. Lust is always a sin. I agree that drinking is not always a sin. Drinking becomes sinful when it is done to excess or placed in an elevated status and becomes an idol for a particular person.

Glad to hear your wife is working on recovery and I hope she is doing well.