I’m undecided on the point of whether the Canon applies. You make a good point for the case of a specific use of AC (abortifacient contraception) on a particular occasion. And Canons that apply a penalty are to be interpreted narrowly.While any form of artificial birth control is gravely disordered, an abortifacient can never be known to cause the termination at any specific point in time. So to automatically excommunicate someone because of a possibility would exclude the elements of canon law. I suppose that if it can be medically proven that a pregnancy had indeed taken place and that the pill terminated that pregnancy then that would apply. So, in short, just because a pill can cause an abortion and should be greatly avoided it doesn’t necessarily mean that it did. One cannot be excommunicated for an act that may not have occurred… Your premise is well directed but the actual conclusion is clouded… teachccd
the fact that someone would be willing to risk it is just as bad, because obviously they’re not concerned either way, unless they truly believe it’s not killing anything, but then on the other hand, if the church commands us not to do something under penalty of mortal sin, then whether we were successful in our efforts or not, if we attempted to do the thing they forbade against, we are guilty of it just the same,While any form of artificial birth control is gravely disordered, an abortifacient can never be known to cause the termination at any specific point in time. So to automatically excommunicate someone because of a possibility would exclude the elements of canon law. I suppose that if it can be medically proven that a pregnancy had indeed taken place and that the pill terminated that pregnancy then that would apply. So, in short, just because a pill can cause an abortion and should be greatly avoided it doesn’t necessarily mean that it did. One cannot be excommunicated for an act that may not have occurred… Your premise is well directed but the actual conclusion is clouded… teachccd
I’m not up on canon law, but does a person also incur a a latae sententiae excommunication for 1st degree, premeditated murder?
when someone commits a mortal sin, plain and simple, they are excommunicated, the only difference is whether it’s publicly known or privately known, but whether being known or hidden ultimately doesn’t make a difference, because it’s not man that you are excommunicated from, it’s not man that has to forgive you, it’s God who you are separated from, who you cannot be again joined to until you repent, whether man knows or not of your sin, God knows, and He is all you really need to worry about, because it is He who judges you when you die, not man.If not, why not?
I’m not sure this is consistant with Catholic theology, at least how you’ve explained it. Excommunication is different than separating oneself from God through mortal sin. I’m asking if there is canonical excommunication for 1st degree murder, not if 1st degree murder separates us from God and in a sense is removing oneself from communion with God, i.e. “ex-communication”.when someone commits a mortal sin, plain and simple, they are excommunicated, the only difference is whether it’s publicly known or privately known, but whether being known or hidden ultimately doesn’t make a difference, because it’s not man that you are excommunicated from, it’s not man that has to forgive you, it’s God who you are separated from, who you cannot be again joined to until you repent, whether man knows or not of your sin, God knows, and He is all you really need to worry about, because it is He who judges you when you die, not man.
although excommunication specifically is an ecclesiastical sentence, but since our sins are not always know(more often than not) then they have also told us straight up, if you do this(such and such a sin) you are excommunicated, whether we know it or not, consider yourself so.
No, there is no Canon excommunicating all persons who commit murder (only direct abortion). Also, actual mortal sin differs from excommunication; they are not the same.I’m not sure this is consistant with Catholic theology, at least how you’ve explained it. Excommunication is different than separating oneself from God through mortal sin. I’m asking if there is canonical excommunication for 1st degree murder, not if 1st degree murder separates us from God and in a sense is removing oneself from communion with God, i.e. “ex-communication”.
the poll question does not quite match this question. It asks for an opinion, informed or otherwise, on whether or not a.c. cause direct abortion and while the plan B or morning after and similar pills clearly are, the jury is still out on the abc pill, although the preponderance of evidence is overwhelming that they are. My puzzle is “direct abortion” since it is impossible to know unless a test is performed before each and every ingestion of such a chemical, whether or not a conceptus has occured and if an abortion is taking place. My guess, because I have not seen it defined, is that since the chemical is taken with intent to either prevent conception or to eject a conception that has already taken place, the intent makes the matter grave and subject to the penalty described. The person also has to know about the penalty and accept it, as well as know the full extent of the sin.Canon 1398: “A person who procures a completed abortion incurs a latae sententiae excommunication.”
Is the deliberate use of an abortifacient contraceptive, with the knowledge that it is abortifacient, the sin of direct abortion? And does Canon 1398 apply to such use?
Thanks, Ron, that’s what I was getting at.No, there is no Canon excommunicating all persons who commit murder (only direct abortion).
This is a thoughtful answer; thanks.the poll question does not quite match this question. It asks for an opinion, informed or otherwise, on whether or not a.c. cause direct abortion and while the plan B or morning after and similar pills clearly are, the jury is still out on the abc pill, although the preponderance of evidence is overwhelming that they are. My puzzle is “direct abortion” since it is impossible to know unless a test is performed before each and every ingestion of such a chemical, whether or not a conceptus has occured and if an abortion is taking place. My guess, because I have not seen it defined, is that since the chemical is taken with intent to either prevent conception or to eject a conception that has already taken place, the intent makes the matter grave and subject to the penalty described. The person also has to know about the penalty and accept it, as well as know the full extent of the sin.
Let us not blur terms…excommunication is an ecclesiastical penalty…which does not happen with every mortal sin…only very particular ones.when someone commits a mortal sin, plain and simple, they are excommunicated, the only difference is whether it’s publicly known or privately known, but whether being known or hidden ultimately doesn’t make a difference, because it’s not man that you are excommunicated from, it’s not man that has to forgive you, it’s God who you are separated from, who you cannot be again joined to until you repent, whether man knows or not of your sin, God knows, and He is all you really need to worry about, because it is He who judges you when you die, not man.
although excommunication specifically is an ecclesiastical sentence, but since our sins are not always know(more often than not) then they have also told us straight up, if you do this(such and such a sin) you are excommunicated, whether we know it or not, consider yourself so.