Abortion and coat hanger mailing campaign

[MercyMia]

The city of Berkeley mailed coat hangers to 20 members of Congress on Wednesday in protest of the anti-abortion amendment in the House version of the federal health care bill.

Read more:
sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/12/09/BA181B1ODQ.DTL&tsp=1

Question for anyone who knows…
We all know that the hanger has become a symbol for abortion supporters of women having to resort to back alley abortions…BUT does anyone know if there is a documented case of woman actually using a hanger to abort her baby? I mean that is pretty sadistic and I just can’t see a woman doing that unless she has sever emotional issues. As a women, the image of a coat hanger is insulting to me. Am I, as a woman, being characterized as someone who so detests the unborn life in my womb that I would lodge a shard of metal into it? I am not capable of this, it insults me that THIS is somehow the symbol of my reproductive freedom. Put a little baby jumpsuit on that hanger and hang it in a nursery, and then you will be representing my feelings.

BTW, the fact is that more women have died from LEGAL abortions than ever died of illegal abortions prior to Roe v Wade. Does anyone have any good stats on this?

 

[jwashu]

No one knows how many women died for illegal abortions because there is no documentation on it so there is no way to prove that statement.

Abortion is murder plan and simple, I’m not sure we make unsupportable claims as facts because they just fuels the other side of the argument.

To my knowledge I don’t know of anyone who has used a coat hanger but I don’t really know but a couple of people who have ever had an abortion.

Joe

 

[Mark77]

Don’t fall for the devil’s old bait & switch!

Their pitiful argument is that if abortion wasn’t legal, then many women would “choose” to abort in a back alley with a coat hanger, so legal abortion is good!

**The only reason abortion is “legal” is because the Supreme Court? of the US, the same court that said slavery was legal & the rights of women to vote were not important because they were inferior?, decided abortion was a fundamental right under the US Constitution???

The supreme courts’ logic was “these slaves are inferior, they are not as good as you & me, so they should be grateful that they are given a meal & a place to sleep?” “These babies are a real problem & the original framers of the Constitution would have aborted their own children if they could have done so legally!”**

**If abortion has allowed the ‘legal’ murder of over 50 MILLION innocent babies, that’s 50,000,000 innocent babies, a large percentage of the current generation in the US since Roe v. Wade & many hundreds of MILLIONS more worldwide, the “coat hanger” argument is a sad joke. Just another lie playing on the emotions of the ignorant!

It’s like saying the "supreme court’ ruled that you could sell your children to pay your bills because they are “an inconvenient truth” & they are crimping your lifestyle? You “deserve” to play around like Tiger because you “deserve” it? (just watch TV; you deserve a Million dollar house & a big car because you…?)**

Santa Maria, mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

mark

 

[SallyMargie]

Abortion is ALL about deception. If it weren’t, and women were truly informed, there would be no abortions, and those who call themselves “pro choice” (whose choice??) know it well.
Another deceptive"victim" tactic from the Left. Same old story. Keep 'em in the dark if you want to get money.

 

[SallyMargie]

The city of Berkeley mailed coat hangers to 20 members of Congress on Wednesday in protest of the anti-abortion amendment in the House version of the federal health care bill.

Read more:
sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/12/09/BA181B1ODQ.DTL&tsp=1

Question for anyone who knows…
We all know that the hanger has become a symbol for abortion supporters of women having to resort to back alley abortions…BUT does anyone know if there is a documented case of woman actually using a hanger to abort her baby? I mean that is pretty sadistic and I just can’t see a woman doing that unless she has sever emotional issues. As a women, the image of a coat hanger is insulting to me. Am I, as a woman, being characterized as someone who so detests the unborn life in my womb that I would lodge a shard of metal into it? I am not capable of this, it insults me that THIS is somehow the symbol of my reproductive freedom. Put a little baby jumpsuit on that hanger and hang it in a nursery, and then you will be representing my feelings.

BTW, the fact is that more women have died from LEGAL abortions than ever died of illegal abortions prior to Roe v Wade. Does anyone have any good stats on this?

American Life League or STOPP likely has the stats you’re looking for.

 

[lumenorientale]

sigh Yet another example of the pro-abortion groups’ skill with hyperbole. Can’t appeal to reason, so why not use grotesque imagery, exaggeration, and outright lies?

As an aside, I was at work one day, and one of my fellow nurses was discussing “all the coat hanger abortion victims she saw when she worked at such and such well known hospital.” I asked “Really? How many did you see?” She described what amounted to only a handful–in her 15-20 odd years working at said hospital. Hmmm…seems to me that there were really not that many, and as another poster said, I believe the women that do this to themselves have underlying psychological issues that would inspire such self mutilation. If it isn’t a “coat hanger abortion,” it would be cutting herself, drug abuse, risky sexual behavior, suicide. Seems to me that a “coat hanger abortion” is the natural, albeit most tragic, outcome of that brand of mental illness. These women need help, not abortions.

And to those that would retort that pictures of aborted babies are grotesque–well, tell me how these photos aren’t the ugly truth of what abortion actually is? Coat hangers are all about the lies told about abortion, the pictures of aborted babies speak for themselves.

 

[SallyMargie]

sigh Yet another example of the pro-abortion groups’ skill with hyperbole. Can’t appeal to reason, so why not use grotesque imagery, exaggeration, and outright lies?

As an aside, I was at work one day, and one of my fellow nurses was discussing “all the coat hanger abortion victims she saw when she worked at such and such well known hospital.” I asked “Really? How many did you see?” She described what amounted to only a handful–in her 15-20 odd years working at said hospital. Hmmm…seems to me that there were really not that many, and as another poster said, I believe the women that do this to themselves have underlying psychological issues that would inspire such self mutilation. If it isn’t a “coat hanger abortion,” it would be cutting herself, drug abuse, risky sexual behavior, suicide. Seems to me that a “coat hanger abortion” is the natural, albeit most tragic, outcome of that brand of mental illness. These women need help, not abortions.

And to those that would retort that pictures of aborted babies are grotesque–well, tell me how these photos aren’t the ugly truth of what abortion actually is? Coat hangers are all about the lies told about abortion, the pictures of aborted babies speak for themselves.

So true! I’ll bet if they ever did a fact check on this, they would probably find about 3 or less women would have resorted to this–perhaps it’s yet another lie from them and NO woman has ever done this. You’d have to be mentally unstable to attempt anything like this because GASP! a baby is growing inside of you!! Also, think how this is presented to young girls–a baby is something to be killed and discarded. Positively evil intent!
Doesn’t it make you sick how they make pregnancy sound like a terrible disease–and there could be nothing worse? And they will resort to ANYthing to continue the killing and exploitation and the coverups. Crazy.

 

[Petite]

The city of Berkeley mailed coat hangers to 20 members of Congress on Wednesday in protest of the anti-abortion amendment in the House version of the federal health care bill.

Read more:
sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/12/09/BA181B1ODQ.DTL&tsp=1

Question for anyone who knows…
We all know that the hanger has become a symbol for abortion supporters of women having to resort to back alley abortions…BUT does anyone know if there is a documented case of woman actually using a hanger to abort her baby? I mean that is pretty sadistic and I just can’t see a woman doing that unless she has sever emotional issues. As a women, the image of a coat hanger is insulting to me. Am I, as a woman, being characterized as someone who so detests the unborn life in my womb that I would lodge a shard of metal into it? I am not capable of this, it insults me that THIS is somehow the symbol of my reproductive freedom. Put a little baby jumpsuit on that hanger and hang it in a nursery, and then you will be representing my feelings.

BTW, the fact is that more women have died from LEGAL abortions than ever died of illegal abortions prior to Roe v Wade. Does anyone have any good stats on this?

FWIW: In 1970, I was a freshman in college at a public university in a state where abortion was illegal at the time. One of the five roommates I roomed with was afraid she was pregnant. She spoke about this to another roommate when she thought the rest of us were asleep. She talked of how she simply could NOT go through with a pregnancy. She said if she couldn’t find anyone to do the abortion, she would use a coat hanger and do it herself.

I was shocked, to say the least to hear her talk like this–I came from a sheltered upbringing. I don’t recall abortion being discussed very much in 12 years of Catholic school. We were taught abstinence. I wasn’t even sure how one would use a coat hanger to perform an abortion.

The roommate in question wasn’t pregnant–thank goodness! But, I am sure she went on birth control pills shortly thereafter.

As to the numbers of women who have died from legal abortions being higher than those who died from illegal abortions: I don’t see how that could be tracked accurately. People simply didn’t talk about this kind of thing.–first, abortion was illegal, second, this would have been considered to be TMI to discuss a pregnancy–wanted or unwanted. Even married women who were joyfully expecting a baby knew their place in terms of how they talked about being pregnant and how often they were out in public once they were showing.

People were much more circumspect in discussing things that were considered to be so personal, such as pregnancy. Breaking the law by having an abortion–that was kept very hush-hush.

I highly recommend *The Girls Who Went Away *by Ann Fessler. BOOKLIST commented on this book:

Between 1945 and 1973, when unwed motherhood was considered shameful and abortion was generally illegal, 1.5 million babies were relinquished for adoption. Fessler, who was herself adopted, offers an incredible and deeply moving look at the personal cost suffered by the women who gave up their babies, voluntarily and involuntarily. More than 100 women spoke to Fessler about the shame of unwed pregnancy compounded with the guilt over giving away the child as well as the life of secrecy and lies thereafter. Many of the young women were temporarily banished from their communities, sent away to maternity schools to deliver their babies, and then returned to what was supposed to be “normal” life. But for many, the experience changed forever their relationships with their parents, the fathers of their babies, and subsequent husbands and children. Years later, many of the women struggled with the question of reuniting with their children as laws on adoption and social mores changed. Fessler recounts her own journey to find and reunite with her birth mother in this heartrending look at the untold story of American women compelled to surrender their children.

 

[SallyMargie]

FWIW: In 1970, I was a freshman in college at a public university in a state where abortion was illegal at the time. One of the five roommates I roomed with was afraid she was pregnant. She spoke about this to another roommate when she thought the rest of us were asleep. She talked of how she simply could NOT go through with a pregnancy. She said if she couldn’t find anyone to do the abortion, she would use a coat hanger and do it herself.

I was shocked, to say the least to hear her talk like this–I came from a sheltered upbringing. I don’t recall abortion being discussed very much in 12 years of Catholic school. We were taught abstinence. I wasn’t even sure how one would use a coat hanger to perform an abortion.

The roommate in question wasn’t pregnant–thank goodness! But, I am sure she went on birth control pills shortly thereafter.

As to the numbers of women who have died from legal abortions being higher than those who died from illegal abortions: I don’t see how that could be tracked accurately. People simply didn’t talk about this kind of thing.–first, abortion was illegal, second, this would have been considered to be TMI to discuss a pregnancy–wanted or unwanted. Even married women who were joyfully expecting a baby knew their place in terms of how they talked about being pregnant and how often they were out in public once they were showing.

People were much more circumspect in discussing things that were considered to be so personal, such as pregnancy. Breaking the law by having an abortion–that was kept very hush-hush.

I highly recommend *The Girls Who Went Away *by Ann Fessler. BOOKLIST commented on this book:

Hi Petite: A few years ago, Life Dynamics Incorporated published a “Legal Abortion Maternal Death List” which listed by name, state (and the year) a list of women killed by legal abortion through 1998. They also stated this is only a partial accounting. The deaths they listed as having occurred before 1973 are women who died in states which had legalized abortion prior to Roe v Wade. It is quite an extensive list and included 242 anonymous women who were confirmed as having died from legal abortions documented through death certificates, autopsies, medical examiner reports, secular newspaper accounts, andor independent medical journal articles. Life Dynamics has the documents on file.

Also, Priests for Life had a great campaign awhile back which stated “If you care about the exploitation of women, you care about it, no matter who does the exploiting.” It showed pictures of Marla Cardamone and Christi Stile, and included articles by their mothers, giving testimonies of “only a small portion of the hundreds of women who have died or been injured from legal abortion.”

Glad your roommate did not abort her child! But, really, wouldn’t you have to wonder if someone seriously considering such a thing as a coat hanger didn’t have some (perhaps hidden) emotional/mental problems? Personally, I know a few women whom, if they were in such a circumstance, would say something like that, more for the shock of it than anything. Not dissing what you’re saying, please understand, but something to consider.

The book by Mark Crutcher “Lime 5” is also very telling about how the abortion clinics REALLY are–and not the “oh so professional” clinics they want us to believe exist.

God bless.

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

BTW, the fact is that more women have died from LEGAL abortions than ever died of illegal abortions prior to Roe v Wade. Does anyone have any good stats on this?

I don’t believe that is a factual assessment considering the fact that illegal abortion has been occurring for many hundreds, maybe thousands, of years. I’m not aware of any statistics which focus exclusively on the United States within the time period you mention but the WHO estimated that, globally, 13% of maternal deaths in 2003 were a direct result of unsafe/illegal abortion and that there were 300 deaths per 100,000 unsafe/illegal abortion procedures. The rate of death in the United States for legal abortions is as follows: medical abortion - 1 per 100,000; surgical abortion - 1 per 1,000,000.

 

[redrosetea]

I think people are using backward glasses to justify abortion, which is murder or an innocent victim

They could adopt those children or put them in an orphanage

As far as I am concerned if a women is willing to murder her baby and dies by her own hand in the process, she died in the act of committing a murder

They are just turning this around to make the perpetrators of a crime look like a victim

 

[SallyMargie]

I don’t believe that is a factual assessment considering the fact that illegal abortion has been occurring for many hundreds, maybe thousands, of years. I’m not aware of any statistics which focus exclusively on the United States within the time period you mention but the WHO estimated that, globally, 13% of maternal deaths in 2003 were a direct result of unsafe/illegal abortion and that there were 300 deaths per 100,000 unsafe/illegal abortion procedures. The rate of death in the United States for legal abortions is as follows: medical abortion - 1 per 100,000; surgical abortion - 1 per 1,000,000.

How bizarre they call them “safe” abortions when they are not safe for the baby who has been killed, nor for the mother exploited for profit!

Not sure I would trust WHO as a source when there are many political ties to such organizations. The bottom line is both illegal and “legal” (actually, it’s simply a loop hole for “the right to privacy”) abortion causes everyone to lose–except for abortion-related groups, abortionists, and certain political ties.

Just heard of a lady the other day who had had 4 abortions. Each time she had not been given the true facts about the baby’s development. She just found out the truth and is now suicidal. That’s very common! Abortion is 100% based on deceit and misinformation to exploit for profit.

People need to be educated to understand there is very rarely a “need” for abortion,unless there is a tubal pregnancy or such where the baby would have no chance of survival. Society has been brainwashed to think each “case” for abortion makes it perfectly fine to kill the baby. The reality the majority of the time is that people have been sexually active outside of marriage (sinfulness) and the abortion (another sin) doesn’t make it okay–just compounds the problem. Two wrongs don’t make a right!!

 

[estesbob]

I don’t believe that is a factual assessment considering the fact that illegal abortion has been occurring for many hundreds, maybe thousands, of years. I’m not aware of any statistics which focus exclusively on the United States within the time period you mention but the WHO estimated that, globally, 13% of maternal deaths in 2003 were a direct result of unsafe/illegal abortion and that there were 300 deaths per 100,000 unsafe/illegal abortion procedures. The rate of death in the United States for legal abortions is as follows: medical abortion - 1 per 100,000; surgical abortion - 1 per 1,000,000.

You have mistated these figures. its 100,300 deaths per 100,000 abortions for every unsafe/illegal abortion, 100,001 death per 100,000 abortions in the USA. I just goes to show how ineherently deadly abortion is.

 

[SallyMargie]

I think people are using backward glasses to justify abortion, which is murder or an innocent victim

They could adopt those children or put them in an orphanage

As far as I am concerned if a women is willing to murder her baby and dies by her own hand in the process, she died in the act of committing a murder

They are just turning this around to make the perpetrators of a crime look like a victim

True. And the extreme Left is known for constantly parading “victims” to make anything–and I mean anything–look legit.

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

How bizarre they call them “safe” abortions when they are not safe for the baby who has been killed, nor for the mother exploited for profit!

Of course they’re not safe for the fetus; they’re not supposed to be. They are safe, though not without risk, for the mother because the procedure is being performed in the presence of a medical practitioner as opposed to some random person off the street giving you a vile of who knows what or impaling yourself with a wire hanger.

Not sure I would trust WHO as a source when there are many political ties to such organizations.

WHO is just the messenger. If you find a peer-reviewed scientific study, published in a scientific journal, which comes to a different conclusion then I would be happy to read it.

Abortion is 100% based on deceit and misinformation to exploit for profit.

On that I strongly disagree.

Society has been brainwashed to think each “case” for abortion makes it perfectly fine to kill the baby.

That isn’t true at all but women have the right to make their own decision on the matter. The vast majority of illegal abortions occur in nations which don’t even have enough resources to feed the existing population and this creates a moral dilemma. Is it moral to bring a child into the world knowing that he/she will experience nothing but suffering and will likely die in a few short years?

 

[estesbob]

Of course they’re not safe for the fetus; they’re not supposed to be. They are safe, though not without risk, for the mother because the procedure is being performed in the presence of a medical practitioner as opposed to some random person off the street giving you a vile of who knows what or impaling yourself with a wire hanger.

WHO is just the messenger. If you find a peer-reviewed scientific study, published in a scientific journal, which comes to a different conclusion then I would be happy to read it.

On that I strongly disagree.

That isn’t true at all but women have the right to make their own decision on the matter.

So what other social pissues do you believe killing the potential recipients is the best solution?

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

So what other social pissues do you believe killing the potential recipients is the best solution?

You snagged my post before I finished editing. The vast majority of illegal abortions occur in nations which don’t even have enough resources to feed the existing population and, as a result, millions of children die every year. Is it moral to bring a child into the world in the knowledge that it will experience nothing but suffering, and likely death? Some might say, in such instances, that the child is better off in the hands of God than those of man and that, under those circumstances, abortion is an act of mercy.

 

[SallyMargie]

Of course they’re not safe for the fetus; they’re not supposed to be. They are safe, though not without risk, for the mother because the procedure is being performed in the presence of a medical practitioner as opposed to some random person off the street giving you a vile of who knows what or impaling yourself with a wire hanger.

WHO is just the messenger. If you find a peer-reviewed scientific study, published in a scientific journal, which comes to a different conclusion then I would be happy to read it.

On that I strongly disagree.

That isn’t true at all but women have the right to make their own decision on the matter. The vast majority of illegal abortions occur in nations which don’t even have enough resources to feed the existing population and this creates a moral dilemma. Is it moral to bring a child into the world knowing that he/she will experience nothing but suffering and will likely die in a few short years?

Wow–you really need to get more information! Personally, I have been involved in the pro-life movement for over 25 years, and could easily write a book about the mountain of deceit surrounding abortion “rights” and the exploitation of women/teens.

Oh please! Spare us the phony baloney old argument about “bringing a child into the world knowing that…” We’ve all heard it before. There is always hope for every child! Rather than defend abortion, you would better serve by making sure tyrannical governments aren’t hoarding the food and goods these babies need and deserve. (These are the ones more worried about bringing machines and tools designed to kill babies in the womb than in bringing the people food and goods!) And–let me guess–you have voted for proabort candidates. Again–with all due respect you need to do some homework here. Start with becoming familiar with sites like priests for life, American Life League, STOPP, Nat’l Right To Life, Mark Crutcher’s book Lime 5, etc. There really is a huge amount of information the general public never hears–because it’s constantly censored “thanks” to “political correctness.”

Always remember that there are those with an anti-life agenda. That doesn’t come from God, friend! We all know where it DOES come from…

Are you Catholic? Are you aware of the Church’s (God’s) teaching on abortion??
Really, you can’t be both Catholic and favor abortion.

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

Oh please! Spare us the phony baloney old argument about “bringing a child into the world knowing that…” We’ve all heard it before.

You’ve heard it before because it’s the truth. 10 million children under the age of five alone die of starvation and preventable/treatable illness every year. That is not “phony baloney”; that is the reality of the world we live in. We don’t live in a world where the good forces will join hands and overthrow dictatorships to feed the global population; that is fantasy. We live in a world where millions of women are faced with the choice to terminate a pregnancy or condemn a child to a short life of suffering and, amongst all of the sabre-rattling of the pro-life movement, very few are willing to take responsibility for the needs of those who would otherwise be terminated.

 

[estesbob]

You snagged my post before I finished editing. The vast majority of illegal abortions occur in nations which don’t even have enough resources to feed the existing population and, as a result, millions of children die every year. Is it moral to bring a child into the world in the knowledge that it will experience nothing but suffering, and likely death? Some might say, in such instances, that the child is better off in the hands of God than those of man and that, under those circumstances, abortion is an act of mercy.

So you are a firm beleiver in the “better dead than underfed” theory?